WHY THE LAW IS A PART OF THE GOSPEL

[BABerean2]

Your interpretation of the scriptures has Paul in contradiction with Paul.

There is no interpretation to argue over in Galatians 4:24-31, if we accept Paul at his word.

Paul talked about the two covenants, and compared the "Sinai" Covenant to "bondage".
These are not my words. They are Paul's.

Any unbiased reader can see the truth below.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


What are the two covenants Paul is speaking about in the passage above?
See what he said in the letter below, where he compared the two covenants.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

The word "was" in verse seven above is past tense.
Paul said the ten commandments covenant "was glorious", in the past.


This is in perfect agreement with what Paul said about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29.

Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made. See Deuteronomy 5:3 for confirmation of the starting point of the Sinai Covenant.

All of these are in perfect agreement.
You are trying to undo everything Paul said above through his reference to God's commandment to circumcise in the Abrahamic Covenant. It does not work.

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[LoveGodsWord]

There is no interpretation to argue over in Galatians 4:24-31, if we accept Paul at his word.

Sure there is but allow me to explain why. Your interpretation of these scriptures are not biblical and has Paul in contradiction with Paul. You quoting Paul in Galatians 4:24-31 interpret him as saying if we have been born again to love God and keep His commandments we are in bondage to the law. This is unbiblical an interpretation of lawlessness (without law) that is in disagreement with both the old and new testament scriptures.

Paul talked about the two covenants, and compared the "Sinai" Covenant to "bondage". These are not my words. They are Paul's. Any unbiased reader can see the truth below.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

No one can know Gods' truth without God's Spirit that is the Spirit of truth that all must seek from God through prayer. Galatians 4:21-31 is an allegory of the two covenants and those seeking height righteousness through the letter of the law (Hagar the bond women) and those seeking their righteousness through the Spirit of the law (Sarah free women new covenant).

So your scriptures are not applicable to our conversation as no one has claimed here that we can be made righteous with God by keeping the law no one can even in the new covenant and no one here that I have read has said that they can be made righteous by keeping Gods' law. That is not what the new covenant is about though is it? What is the new covenant according to the scriptures of the old covenant that is repeated in the new from Hebrews 8:10-12; Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. What do you think these scriptures are talking about? What is the old covenant and what is the new covenant?

We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant and no one is saying to get your righteousness from the law as all the law does is to give us the knowledge of right doing and wrong doing; good and evil; Sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. It shows us that we are all sinners and need of God's salvation *Romans 3:9-20; Matthew 9:12-13 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith and makes us free to be born again to walk in His Spirit *Galatians 3:22-25; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31.

Those who have been forgiven through faith (Romans 8:1-4; 1 John 1:9) do not abolished God's law and become disobedient to it they obey it because they have been given a new heart to love God (John 14:15; John 15:10; John 14:23; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 1:5; Romans 3:31). Being born again into God's new covenant promise to love they now have God's law written in their hearts *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27.

Those who have been born again to walk in God's Spirit according to the scriptures do not practice unrepentant sin *1 John 3:6-9 and sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word *James 2:10-11; Romans 14:23.

So in summary, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

What are the two covenants Paul is speaking about in the passage above?
See what he said in the letter below, where he compared the two covenants.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

The word "was" in verse seven above is past tense.
Paul said the ten commandments covenant "was glorious", in the past.
This is in perfect agreement with what Paul said about the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29.

Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made. See Deuteronomy 5:3 for confirmation of the starting point of the Sinai Covenant.

All of these are in perfect agreement.
You are trying to undo everything Paul said above through his reference to God's commandment to circumcise in the Abrahamic Covenant. It does not work. .

Not really dear friend. Your teachings and interpretation of these scriptures simply demonstrate you do not know what the old covenant is or the new covenant that the old points to and neither do you understand the ministration of the law and the ministration of the Spirit of the law which is the allegory of the two covenants.

Let's have a detailed look at the scriptures to see if they say what you are claiming here that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished which we will see they say no such thing..

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-14
[1], Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, letters of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2], you are our letter written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3], For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.

Note: in [v3] that Paul is stating that the Corinthians here are letters of Christ ministered by Paul and his companions “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone (reference to the 10 commandments) but IN the fleshly tables of the HEART! Pauls reference here is to Gods new covenant promise of JEREMIASH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT that i will make with the house of israel after those days, said the lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people.
So the context here is the ministration (Paul and his companions being the ministers) of the new covenant Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the Corinthians are examples who have been given a new heart to love God and walk in his commandments which is the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated by Paul in HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Note: in [6] the context are repeated from [v3] that is that Paul and his companions were the MINISTERS of the NEW COVENANT. “NOT OF THE LETTER OF THE LAW BUT OF THE SPIRIT; FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE”. No where here does [v6] teach that God’s law is abolished. It simply states that “the letter killeth” that is the letter of the law gives us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 when God’s 10 commandments are broken and the penalty of sin is death *ROMANS 6:21-23; ROMANS 8:13 but it is not able to save us from sin and change our hearts to love and follow God. The reference in [v6] “FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE” is to the new covenant promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12 and HEBREWS 10:15-17.

[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:

Note: It is the ministration of condemnation and death (sin) that is to be done away with and the letter through the Spirit not God’s law as God’s law is not sin but is Holy, Just and Good * ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 7:11-12 and gives us a knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25

[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION BE GLORY, MUCH MORE DOES THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY.

Note: The 10 commandments (the letter) written on stone is the “MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION” that is it condemns sin or the breaking of God’s 10 commandments. It brings a knowledge is sin and condemnation brings the guilt of sin which is death. Through the Spirit of JESUS our sins are forgiven as we have faith in God’s Word *JOHN 3:16-19; 1 JOHN 1:9 and His Spirit through faith in the Word of God *JOHN 6:63 changes our heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12 to love and obedience that leads to righteousness *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:14:16; ROMANS 1:5; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

[10], FOR EVEN THAT WHICH WAS MADE GLORIOUS HAD NO GLORY IN THIS RESPECT, BY REASON OF THE GLORY THAT EXCELS.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.

Note: The purpose of God’s law was only to give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20 and to lead us to JESUS *GALATIANS 3:22-25. It could never change us and free us from the power and condemnation of sin. The old covenant Sanctuary laws for remission of sins (burnt offerings and animal sacrifices and blood offerings) pointed to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the new covenant and God’s promise of salvation from sin’s power *JEREMIAH 31:31-34; HEBREWS 8:10-12; HEBREWS 10:15-17; JOHN 8:31-36; 1 JOHN 3:6-9.

[12], Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13], AND NOT AS MOSES, WHICH PUT A VEIL OVER HIS FACE, THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY LOOK TO THE END OF THAT WHICH IS ABOLISHED:

Note: the veil to be abolished is the “letter of condemnation and sin” which leads to death through the Spirit of life which is received by faith in God’s Word that leads us to the Spirit of Christ that works in us to love *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 3:22-25; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; REVELATION 14:12.

[14], BUT THEIR MINDS WERE BLINDED: FOR UNTIL THIS DAY REMAINS THE SAME VEIL NOT TAKEN AWAY IN THE READING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
[15], BUT EVEN TO THIS DAY, WHEN MOSES IS READ, THE VEIL IS ON THEIR HEART.

Note: Following the “letter of the law”(old covenant) only leads to the outward appearance of righteousness condemned by JESUS when talking to the Scribes and Pharisees as highlighted above and in MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 23:13 MATTHEW 23:25-28. We need to be saved from the INSIDE and receive a new heart to love. Outward obedience to God’s law does not save us because sin originates from the heart *MATTHEW 5:17-27.

[16], NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.
[17], NOW THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.
[18], BUT WE ALL, WITH OPEN FACE BEHOLDING AS IN A GLASS THE GLORY OF THE LORD, ARE CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE FROM GLORY TO GLORY, EVEN AS BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD.

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CONCLUSION: Just like Galatians 4 is talking about the two covenants 2 Corinthians 3 is also talking about the ministration of the two covenants. The old covenant is the ministration of the letter that brings condemnation and death because it is through the law that we have a knowledge of what sin is when we break it *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. The Spirit of the law or the ministration of the Spirit is JESUS and God’s new covenant promise of salvation from sin, condemnation and death through faith in Christ in those who have been born again with a new heart to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10 according to God's new covenant promise; Whosoever is born of God does not practice sin *1 JOHN 3:6-9. Sin is breaking anyone of God’s 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11 or not believing and following Gods’ Word *ROMANS 14:23.

Your teachings of lawlessness has Paul in contradiction with Paul when he says in Romans 3:31 does faith abolish Gods' law? Certainly not it establishes Gods' law in all those who believe and follow Gods' Word.

Hope this helps

 

[BABerean2]

Sure there is but allow me to explain why. Your interpretation of these scriptures are not biblical and has Paul in contradiction with Paul. You quoting Paul in Galatians 4:24-31 interpret him as saying if we have been born again to love God and keep His commandments we are in bondage to the law. This is unbiblical an interpretation of lawlessness (without law) that is in disagreement with both the old and new testament scriptures.

Never, ever, in our conversations have I advocated lawlessness.

You have quoted "his commandments" from 1 John on many occasions, but seldom quote what "his commandments" actually are in 1 John 3:22-24.

You used the term "His commandments" above, which are defined in 1 John 3:22-24.

You have denied that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete", by ignoring Hebrews 8:13.

Any unbiased witness can see there are two different sets of commandments below.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

---------------------------


My interpretation does not require me to use the "Bait-and-Switch" strategy of the used car salesman, in an attempt to switch the ten commandments in the place of the commandments found in 1 John 3:23.

It does not require me to ignore the word "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13.

It does not require me to ignore the timing of the Sinai Covenant revealed in Exodus 5:3.

It does not require me to ignore what Paul said about the law in Galatians 3:16-29, when Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

If you think Paul did not tell the Galatians to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31, unbiased witnesses here can read the text for themselves.


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


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[LoveGodsWord]

Hello BABerean2,

I might address your post as a detailed scripture response in smaller posts in the hope you might read them and they might be helpful to you.

Never, ever, in our conversations have I advocated lawlessness.

That is not true. Lawlessness simply means without law. In our whole conversations in this section of the forum you have been teaching that God's 10 commandments is obsolete and no longer a requirement for Christian living in the mistaken belief that God's 10 commandments alone are the old covenant. You believe that Jesus fulfilled the law when he was on this earth so that we no longer have to. Is this not your view? YES/NO? If it is your teachings a doctrine of lawlessness (without law) which is not biblical. If I have a misunderstanding of your belief this is your time to clarify any misunderstandings.

more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You have quoted "his commandments" from 1 John on many occasions, but seldom quote what "his commandments" actually are in 1 John 3:22-24. You used the term "His commandments" above, which are defined in 1 John 3:22-24.

That is also not true at all and I did no such thing. It is you who denies the scriptures and the contexts that have been shared with you that show 1 John 3:22-24 is talking about sin (breaking Gods' 10 commandments) and love being expressed in obedience to Gods' 10 commandments. You have been provided detailed scriptures responses to you that you have chosen to ignore and not respond to from 1 John 1 to 1 John 5 showing that the reason of John's epistles is that we sin not (break Gods' commandments) in 1 John 2:1 and that sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following Gods' Word as shown in 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20 and that love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law as shown in the scriptures from Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 1:6 in all those who have been born again not to practice sin *1 John 3:6-9 through faith *1 John 5:2-4. This is God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 to all those who believe and follow God's Word. All the above has already been shared with you in opposition to your claims here; here; hear; and here linked. Now what is it in the scriptures that have been shared with you here that you do not believe and why (scripture please)?

More to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You have denied that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete", by ignoring Hebrews 8:13.

No. I have only denied your understanding of what the old covenant is and the new covenant it points to. Let me explain this further from the scriptures. Your understanding is that the old covenant was the 10 commandments alone which is not biblical and has led you to the false teachings of lawlessness (without law) thinking that Gods' 10 commandments are now obsolete or no longer a requirement for Christian living. This has been addressed in a detailed scripture response to you that you have chosen to ignore and refuse to respond to here linked.

The linked post and the scriptures in it show that the old covenant included both Gods' 10 commandments as the standard of sin when broken and righteousness when obeyed and that the old covenant was not only God's 10 commandments but also included the Mosaic book of the covenant as shown in Exodus 24:7 which you do not consider in your understanding of the scriptures as to what actually made up the old covenant. The old covenant collectively made up both Gods 10 commandments as the standard of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing) and the Mosaic book of the covenant and the "shadow laws" for remission of sins should someone in the old covenant break God's commandments and other laws that pointed to Gods' new covenant ministration (e.g. the laws for the Levitical Priesthood, the earthly Sanctuary, the laws for animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision, Feast days etc).

This is why your doctrine is a teaching of lawlessness (without law). Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant scriptures as a requirement for Christian living (scripture support here) and both Jesus and the Apostles taught them and obeyed them in the new covenant (scripture support here). Gods law (10 commandments) in the new covenant have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral wrong doing according to the scriptures in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the scripture we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11.

This of course includes Gods' 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath which is one of Gods 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed. Sunday worship on the other hand is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break Gods' 4th commandment. Jesus says in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God and if we are not worshiping God who then are we worshiping in place of God? So the question remains who do we believe and follow; God or man? For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Any unbiased witness can see there are two different sets of commandments below. Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Not really dear friend. I believe any unbiased witness seeking to prayerfully know God's Word through his Spirit can see that the scriptures teach that a house divided against itself cannot stand *Mark 3:24-26. The commands of Jesus to love are not in opposition to Gods' commandments as the Father and Jesus are one and the commandments are the same as God is love *John 10:30; Jesus when asked what is the greatest commandment quoting old testament scriptures from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 tells us that the two great commandments are to love God with all of our heart soul and mind and the second greatest is to love our neighbor as our self and that on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40). Jesus here is not giving a new set of commandments although they are new from the perspective that no one was obeying them from the heart like Jesus did *John 13:34. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law as shown in the scriptures with you already here; here; hear; and here linked. God is love according to the scriptures *1 John 4:7-12 we need to be born again *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9 because we do not love *John 5:42. Therefore Jesus saying if you love me keep my commandments in John 14:15 or If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love in John 15:10 is not saying love is now separate from Gods' law he is saying the obedience to Gods law from the heart can only be achieved in a new heart to love which is God's new covenant promise in all those who believe and follow Gods' Word (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27).

more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

My interpretation does not require me to use the "Bait-and-Switch" strategy of the used car salesman, in an attempt to switch the ten commandments in the place of the commandments found in 1 John 3:23.

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree. Your interpretation of the scriptures and as demonstrated in our discussion, you have consistently ignored and refused to address my posts and scriptures shared in them that disagree with your teachings of lawlessness (without law) only to move on to other subject matter (bait and switch) as a distraction to avoid answering the questions and the posts with the scriptures in them that provide the contexts to your interpretation you apply to the scriptures that prove your interpretation of the scriptures you provide are in error. No one has attempted as you claim here to switch the 10 commandment in place of love from 1 John 3:23 as you claim here. A detailed scripture response was provided to you (here; here; hear; and here linked) that you choose to ignore and not respond to showing the contexts you leave out of your interpretation of a single set of scriptures that show that love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus say on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.

more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It does not require me to ignore the word "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13. It does not require me to ignore the timing of the Sinai Covenant revealed in Exodus 5:3. It does not require me to ignore what Paul said about the law in Galatians 3:16-29, when Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

There is nothing wrong with the word "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13 it is your interpretation and application of this word that is the problem as you think Hebrews 8:13 is in application to Gods' 10 commandments being obsolete which is not biblical. As already discussed with you the old covenant is not the new covenant and the old covenant is not the 10 commandments in isolation from the Mosiac BOOK of the old covenant as shown in Exodus 24:7. Your understanding of the covenants are in error as you seek to isolate the Mosaic book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) from Gods' 10 commandments while everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living in the new covenant (scripture support here) while many of the "shadow laws" from the Mosaic book of the covenant are not (Hebrews 7:1-25: Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-22; Colossians 2:17; Ephesians 2:15). This of course is all repetition that has already been addressed in a detailed scripture response that you have chosen to ignore and not respond to here linked. You have indeed in fact ignored all the scriptures here you claim not to ignore because of your understanding of what you believe the old covenant is and the new covenant it points to as shown in the scriptures that you ignore and have chosen not to respond to that disagree with your interpretation of what the old and new covenants are.

more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If you think Paul did not tell the Galatians to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31, unbiased witnesses here can read the text for themselves.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

There is no problem with the scriptures provided here in Galatians 4:23-31. It is your interpretation of these scriptures as to what the covenants are that is the problem as already outlined in these last posts to you here and elsewhere in a detailed scripture response that you have chosen once again to ignore and not respond to here linked and here linked. This section is only repetition that has already been addressed in the linked post provided to you.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[BABerean2]

There is nothing wrong with the word "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13 it is your interpretation and application of this word that is the problem as you think Hebrews 8:13 is in application to Gods' 10 commandments being obsolete which is not biblical.

The Old Testament text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is in uppercase letters in the passage below.

Verse 9 below reveals which covenant is now "obsolete".
See Deuteronomy 5:1-22 for the details of this covenant.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


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[LoveGodsWord]

The Old Testament text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is in uppercase letters in the passage below.

Verse 9 below reveals which covenant is now "obsolete".
See Deuteronomy 5:1-22 for the details of this covenant.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away..

Your post here is simply repetition already responded to. This post has been already addressed in a detailed scripture response in post # 149 linked and elsewhere. I guess you did not read my posts to you again did you. Why would you think I do not know what Jeremiah 31:31-34 says? If you were reading my posts I constantly link it to both Hebrews 8:10-12 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. If you read any of the posts provided to you and the scriptures in them that you have chosen to ignore again, you will see the problem is not with the scriptures you have posted it is with your interpretation of what you think the old covenant is and what the new covenant is that the old covenant points to. This is where I believe your error is scripture wise and what I have been trying to discuss with you in earlier posts that show why your understanding here is in error. Anyhow let me know when you want to discuss the scriptures and have a discussion and perhaps we can proceed from there. I do not see your here for a discussion as your not discussing any of the posts and scriptures that disagree with you while continuing to simply repeat yourself and your claims that have already been responded to that you simply choose to ignore. I did try to make the posts smaller thinking it might help so we can discuss each of your posts section by section and scripture by scripture. I guess you are not interested in having a discussion from your response, but are here simply for some other reason. Anyhow you have a bit of catching up to do with the posts and scriptures already shared with you that disagree with your teachings of lawlessness (without law). I will leave that between you and God to work through and we will agree to disagree.