Olympic-sized battle looms over transgender athletes at Tokyo games

[*Starlight*]

I don't like it either but I think it's fair to at least reject athletes taking steroids or hormones.

If they meet that requirement we can place them in one category or the other based on primary sex characteristics. If they wish to be called by a certain pronoun or name...I think those wishes should be respected.

I'm not really sure what the rules are. Are athletes rejected if they take steroids or hormones not to improve their results, but for medical reasons? It would make sense to put transgender athletes in the same category.

why would it be unfair to them, they are making a decision that they know has some consequences, why do we need to be unfair to many people to accommodate the options of someone who is making a personal decision.

It's kind of misleading to just call it a decision. It's a treatment for a medical condition, so the decision here is to either treat it, or leave it untreated. Encouraging athletes to keep their conditions untreated if they want to participate isn't very healthy.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Fairness of the competition has always been a concern for the Olympics.

The testing for steroids and other enhancing drugs has been extensive and continually updated.

What would the point of that be if not fairness?

I think the funniest part of this discussion is the side that constantly complains about a "level playing field" whenever the discussion involves economics, or education, or jobs....

Suddenly that side doesn't care at all about a 'level playing field" when we're actually talking about a playing field and fairness.

If the OP is professionally involved with, or even merely a big fan of, elite level sports (in this case, Olympic-style weightlifting), then I retract my comment.

To be clear, I'm not saying that there aren't serious, valid questions about how best to handle this. There are. For the folks who are invested in these events, this is a legitimate point of discussion and debate.

IMO/IME, that's not what's driving the hand-wringing among most of the general populace. For many (probably most/nearly all), athletics is just a convenient outlet for them to express their distaste at accommodating trans people.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If the OP is professionally involved with, or even merely a big fan of, elite level sports (in this case, Olympic-style weightlifting), then I retract my comment.

Why would that be necessary?

I mean, I enjoy Olympic gymnastics....I don't follow it or watch it year round though.

To be clear, I'm not saying that there aren't serious, valid questions about how best to handle this. There are. For the folks who are invested in these events, this is a legitimate point of discussion and debate.

Invested as in "competing" or....?

IMO/IME, that's not what's driving the hand-wringing among most of the general populace. For many (probably most/nearly all), athletics is just a convenient outlet for them to express their distaste at accommodating trans people.

I understand that is your opinion....and you're certainly entitled to it.

Hubbard, the athlete in question, was a man until the age of 30...transitioned...and already holds multiple records in womens weightlifting.

While it's nice of you to think that the athletes themselves are the ones who should be driving the conversation...they fear for their careers and personal reputations for doing so. It doesn't matter if you believe in cancel culture, they clearly do, and they will certainly be attacked with accusations of transphobia and bigotry (much as you've done here, only less subtle) and they may not be willing to take such risks.

I see no reason why anyone willing to weigh in on the issue shouldn't, since it's a similar issue affecting all of women's sports at this time. There's girls in high school who are effectively engaged in sports they cannot possibly win and are objectively unfair.

It's a valid topic. All should be able to weigh in without character attacks or accusations of bigotry simply for posting an opinion about the fairness of competition.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm not really sure what the rules are. Are athletes rejected if they take steroids or hormones not to improve their results, but for medical reasons?

Yes.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Now that is an interesting question. I was assuming (and yes I know what happens when we do that) the medical procedure had been done.

Well that in itself is a restriction if it's the case....which certainly sets precedent for any other restrictions.

Trans activists believe that one can spontaneously identify as the other gender at any time and such claims should be accepted without questioning....no medical treatment or surgeries required.

So literally, Usain Bolt should be able to win his sprints as a man....walk over to the women's starting line, explain that he feels like a woman ever since he finished his last race, and then proceed to beat all the female athletes.

I think the fundamental problem here is this....

We (by which I mean both society, psychology, and medical science) don't really understand what transgender "is" well enough to craft fair anti-discrimination legislation or rules that allow for two different outcomes simultaneously. Those outcomes are....

1. Transgender people being able to participate in society free of any discrimination against them in any way.

2. The infringement upon the liberties of other groups in pursuit of outcome #1.

 

[*Starlight*]

Yes.

Then I guess it would be consistent to reject people who transitioned too. But it's still unfair, towards the people who transitioned, and towards people who take steroids or hormones for other medical reasons. So, like I said, there's really no good solution to the whole problem, every alternative is bad in some way.