Predestination vs. Seeking, knocking and Answering the Door

Clare73

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Clare73

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The ability to choose is NOT proof that our wills are not enslaved or addicted to choosing evil as art of if not the intent of every choice we make.

We cannot choose righteousness so how are we free when we choose?
We are not absolutely free and are not able to choose to be sinless, which is required for righteousness,
but we have limited freedom to avoid at least some willful sin, which avoidance is of no value regarding salvation.

Free will is not the issue/problem in the NT. The problem is the disposition--what one prefers and likes, which governs the will.

The unregenerate man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, he cannot understand them, they are foolishness to him
(1 Corinthians 2:14), and he wants no part of it.

"That's why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." (John 6:65)

So God works in the disposition giving one to understand and prefer the things that come from the Spirit of God, which man then freely and willingly receives and believes.

God uses, not violates, the will in bringing men to saving faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ.
 
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98cwitr

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...and your Calvinism is a heresy to the RCC, sigh. Your clique is not the judge of all truth.

Not "Calvinism" but Reformed Theology. Semi-Pelaganism was condemned in 529 by the RCC.

In response to this post - #312 -- we have




Ok so your solution to #312 is not to address any of it?

Isaiah 5:3-4
3 “And now, you inhabitants of Jerusalem and people of Judah,
Judge between Me and My vineyard.
4 What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

The two questions
  1. What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it? (Answer: "Nothing more you could have done")
  2. Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones? (Answer; They have no excuse - you already did everything)
I agree with the above answers. There's no conflict or contradiction.
Now let's edit God's questions

1. What more was there to do for someone I decree to be lost - that I have not done? (Answer: nothing)
2. When I expected them to fail - did they fail as expected? (Answer: yes)

But Calvinism has an answer for God first question, the question actually IN the text.
What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it? (Answer: "we all know good and well what you could have done if you wanted them not to fail -- you could have drawn, chosen, enabled and caused them to do the right thing")

No need to edit God's questions; they're perfect the way they are.

Rom 2 is being ignored entirely so then Rom 2:11 "God is not partial" is being ignored as well.

God is not partial with his children.

All the Bible examples in my post - #312 - are being ignored, so now I am to address that question above...

Not ignored. I addressed most of them. The ones I haven't yet are:

2 Cor 5:19 - By itself is a universalist message, and yet 17-18 provide the exact context.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come">[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

Verse 18 proves the whole point: It's God doing the work, not man.

And then, 2 Peter 3:9

Original greek uses the word "pas" (cited below) and can be understood in the same context as "not willing that any of you..." The message is for the audience.

πᾶς,a \{pas}
1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types

This is simple logic, God has no reason to create humans that He would wish not to perish, but end up doing so beyond His Will, for He knows even before they were created both their purpose for His Glory and their final destination. To assume that He doesn't create people He knows are destined for Hell apart from His Will is to either deny His Omniscience OR Creatorship. Which shall we deny? I refuse to deny either.

1 Peter 1: To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father

Now I have answered your question

No, you haven't. What is the source of faith? God or man?

- ... so is it time for you to address the Bible Examples I have given from Romans 2 and in post - #312 - ?? and the Romans 2 details in #291

Again, with His Children. There are children of the devil to consider: sheep v. goats; wheat v. tare
 
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HosannaHM

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Heresy: belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.

All views are heresies to those who do not share that opinion.
Yup, and the part that is being misunderstood is that both Calvinism and Arminianism are orthodox. It's okay to disagree people. It's not okay to treat people's doctrines as stupid, especially if they have strong scriptural support. This is why the Calvin/Arminius argument wears me out over time. I am skeptical that people come to threads like this to actually understand, because in reality what happens is that people start to tell everyone else how they're wrong and said individuals are right. A little more humility would do us all well.
 
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Clare73

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...and your Calvinism is a heresy to the RCC, sigh. Your clique is not the judge of all truth.
I don't do "Calvinism," I do Bible.

And the teaching you presented is likewise heresy to the RCC.
 
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Clare73

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Heresy: belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.

All views are heresies to those who do not share that opinion.
According to its definition, that would not be correct, would it?

Heresy is measured by orthodoxy, not by current personal opinion.
 
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Clare73

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Yup, and the part that is being misunderstood is that both Calvinism and Arminianism are orthodox. It's okay to disagree people. It's not okay to treat people's doctrines as stupid, especially if they have strong scriptural support. This is why the Calvin/Arminius argument wears me out over time. I am skeptical that people come to threads like this to actually understand, because in reality what happens is that people start to tell everyone else how they're wrong and said individuals are right. A little more humility would do us all well.
Well, if you're here to sort it out, there's going to be some showing of correct and incorrect.
That's the only way it can be done.
 
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Neostarwcc

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...and your Calvinism is a heresy to the RCC, sigh. Your clique is not the judge of all truth.

If the reformers were such heretics why is Martin Luther not excommunicated from the RCC anymore?

I'm not trying to argue for or against Reformed Theology just a general question. The reformers were not hertics. They merely wanted to go by the word of God and what the word of God said. The idea of the reformation wasnt to make a new religion it was to fix what was going on with the RCC at the time. Something all Christian churches should do if you ask me since all Christians believe the Bible to be the living, breathing word of God.
 
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TedT

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but we have limited freedom to avoid at least some willful sin,

...a limited will is not a free will. This is doublethink, accepting that opposites which cancel each other must both be true at the time.
 
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Clare73

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...a limited will is not a free will. This is doublethink, accepting that opposites which cancel each other must both be true at the time.
You are in disagreement with both Scripture and philosophy.

Free will is the ability to choose what one prefers without any external constraint.

Man can make choices he prefers without external constraint (free will), but he cannot make all moral choices (limited free will), such as the choice to be sinless.
 
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TedT

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Free will is the ability to choose what one prefers without any external constraint.

Why speak only of an external restraint rather that the internal restraint of our addiction to evil which cannot be denied...Romans 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. when this is the source of our lack of a true free will as sinners.
 
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Clare73

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Why speak only of an external restraint rather that the internal restraint of our addiction to evil which cannot be denied...Romans 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. when this is the source of our lack of a true free will as sinners.
I didn't write the definintions used. . .
 
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spiritfilledjm

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According to its definition, that would not be correct, would it?

Heresy is measured by orthodoxy, not by current personal opinion.

What is orthodox does not matter to one that does not belong to the group that decides what is orthodox or not. For instance, I am not Catholic, therefore what they view as orthodox and heresy matters little to me.
 
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Clare73

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What is orthodox does not matter to one that does not belong to the group that decides what is orthodox or not. For instance, I am not Catholic, therefore what they view as orthodox and heresy matters little to me.
Nevertheless, that is the definition of "heresy."
 
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fhansen

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What is orthodox does not matter to one that does not belong to the group that decides what is orthodox or not. For instance, I am not Catholic, therefore what they view as orthodox and heresy matters little to me.
That's right-orthodoxy, itself, is still a matter of personal opinion, which means that heresy (that which constitutes it) is a matter of personal opinion.
 
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Clare73

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That's right-orthodoxy, itself, is still a matter of personal opinion, which means that heresy (that which constitutes it) is a matter of personal opinion.
"Thou shalt not murder" is not subject to nor a matter of personal opinion.
 
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