God created the earth and the earth was without form

[renniks]

Or perhaps not. v.1 is very clear. God created the earth. If God didn't really create a spherical planet that we call earth, why did Moses call it "earth"? He would have said "God created a mass of energy" and the mass of energy was formless.


Do you believe that all of ch 1 represents the story of creation, over 6 literal days, or instead, a restoration of the planet over 6 literal days?

I don't know, really. I could speculate that the battle with fallen angels happened prior to God restoring the world, that Satan was cast down to a blank planet that perhaps was more like a piece of matter hurling through space, but who knows?
I don't think there was an earth like we would recognize prior to verse two.

 

[d taylor]

Please explain how science created earth.

I did not say science created earth, they created the idea that the earth God created, is a planet.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

I did not say science created earth, they created the idea that the earth God created, is a planet.

Okay... I'm still not understanding what you're trying to say, and I don't want to misunderstand. Are you saying that science took over?

 

[public hermit]

The earth was perhaps a mass of energy with the potential to be formed into matter, along with the rest of the creation

That's similar to how Augustine interpreted it (at one point, anyway). He said it was prime matter (formless matter), which is essentially pure potential. He considered it to be a logical first, but not necessarily temporal first, since matter cannot really endure formless. That's if I read the last few chapter of Confessions correctly..

 

[renniks]

That's similar to how Augustine interpreted it (at one point, anyway). He said it was prime matter (formless matter), which is essentially pure potential. He considered it to be a logical first, but not necessarily temporal first, since matter cannot really endure formless. That's if I read the last few chapter of Confessions correctly..

That interesting, especially because he probably didn't have the modern science info about energy to matter conversion.

 

[d taylor]

Okay... I'm still not understanding what you're trying to say, and I don't want to misunderstand. Are you saying that science took over?

I am saying that science/scientist and governments have convinced almost 95% of christians to believe that God's creation is a planet.

When there is no evidence from the Bible that God created a planet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

let the waters below be gathered into one place, in the shape of one.

Waters in the shpe of one"? One what?

Again, v.1 says God created the earth. v.2 says "and the earth was formless".

As I noted in the OP, liquids and gases take the shape or form of what contains them. So EVERYTHING has a shape or form.

Can you explain how the earth can be "formless"? That's impossible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Genesis address God's creation, it does not address God creating a planet (because God did not create a planet, science did)

No offense, but this is ridiculous. Of course God created "a planet". In fact, He created every planet that exists. And every star, too.

But, how you think "science" created a planet?

God's creation (earth) in Genesis 1:1 is covered in water Genesis 1:2 Then God begins His work of creating the earth for humans so He brings light into work place (did not want to work in the dark) Genesis 1:3.

You have not explained how a solid object (earth) can be formless. That is the issue of this thread.

Can you address that?

Now God separates this huge mass of water He flooded His Genesis 1:1 creation with. He now creates a raqia (dome) that separates the waters of Genesis 1:2 that were covering the earth. After this separation of this huge mass of water, the waters left below the raqia, He gathers into one place and then brings forth the one piece of circular land mass (earth) Genesis 1:9. This single land mass is surrounded by the waters which were gathered into one place called seas Genesis 1:10. Then God begins to work on the large land mass He brought fourth out of the waters Genesis 1:11

Again, v.1 says God created the earth (a solid object).
v.2 says the earth (a solid object) was FORMLESS. How can that be?

If a person gets a planet out of Genesis chapter 1 they are simply reading it into Genesis because of science, not because of the Bible.

Are you saying that the "earth" of v.1 wasn't a planet?

If "earth" of v.1 wasn't a planet, what exactly was it? Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Amount of time, could have been a day, two days a week. How ever long it was long enough for satan to have a presence in the garden of God and to let sin into his perfect being. Bringing about his fall and judgment.

You have as much theory as most who hold to a time gap between v.1 and 2 do.

And you still haven't addressed the OP. Please explain how a solid object (earth) can be FORMLESS, for that is what the traditional translation says.

And then, explain where in ch 1 is the account of God addressing His FORMLESS earth and making it shapely.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't know, really. I could speculate that the battle with fallen angels happened prior to God restoring the world, that Satan was cast down to a blank planet that perhaps was more like a piece of matter hurling through space, but who knows?
I don't think there was an earth like we would recognize prior to verse two.

The basic issue here is how a solid object that everyone understands to be "earth" can be without form, or formless, or shapeless.

YEC must be able to explain that since they fight tooth and nail about the actual translation of v.2, which is this:

BUT, the earth BECAME an UNINHABITABLE WASTELAND.......

These are the key words and I can prove from biblehub.com that this is the common usage of these Hebrew words in the rest of the OT.

 

[d taylor]

No offense, but this is ridiculous. Of course God created "a planet". In fact, He created every planet that exists. And every star, too.

But, how you think "science" created a planet?


You have not explained how a solid object (earth) can be formless. That is the issue of this thread.

Can you address that?


Again, v.1 says God created the earth (a solid object).
v.2 says the earth (a solid object) was FORMLESS. How can that be?


Are you saying that the "earth" of v.1 wasn't a planet?

If "earth" of v.1 wasn't a planet, what exactly was it? Thanks.

Well if you think this is ridiculous, then you are close to hearing any points to be made , so why waste my time on a person who has that attitude

 

[Carl Emerson]

This is for Young Earth Creationists:

Since planet earth HAS form or shape, what does the Bible mean by a "formless earth"? How is that even possible, since all solid objects have a form or shape?

Even more difficult, where in Genesis 1 does God address His "formless earth" and give it some form or shape?

So how did the earth become a perfect sphere if God created the earth without form? And why doesn't the "creation account" give us any details about this?

To be clear, I am a very conservative evangelical and I do believe Genesis 1 describes the "six days" to be literal 24 hours days.

But I'm interested in how the YEC will (or if) answer my questions about a "formless earth".

It reminds me of the potter and the clay...

A blob of clay is formed into a useful shape - It sounds like the earth was originally a blob of matter without life - formless and void.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I did not say science created earth, they created the idea that the earth God created, is a planet.

Yes you did, in post #18.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's similar to how Augustine interpreted it (at one point, anyway). He said it was prime matter (formless matter), which is essentially pure potential. He considered it to be a logical first, but not necessarily temporal first, since matter cannot really endure formless. That's if I read the last few chapter of Confessions correctly..

I think we can get the real story just from Scripture, as my posts reflect.

 

[renniks]

The basic issue here is how a solid object that everyone understands to be "earth" can be without form, or formless, or shapeless.

YEC must be able to explain that since they fight tooth and nail about the actual translation of v.2, which is this:

BUT, the earth BECAME an UNINHABITABLE WASTELAND.......

These are the key words and I can prove from biblehub.com that this is the common usage of these Hebrew words in the rest of the OT.

So I did not read your whole explanation, are you talking about millions of years of life and death before verse two? Or just a formless earth?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am saying that science/scientist and governments have convinced almost 95% of christians to believe that God's creation is a planet.

When there is no evidence from the Bible that God created a planet.

You have just got to be kidding!! Are you actually serious?

Just what do you think the globe you are presently sitting/standing or lying on is anyway?

The concept of "earth" from Moses to the present day has not changed one bit. FYI

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
No offense, but this is ridiculous. Of course God created "a planet". In fact, He created every planet that exists. And every star, too.

But, how you think "science" created a planet?

You have not explained how a solid object (earth) can be formless. That is the issue of this thread.

Can you address that?

Again, v.1 says God created the earth (a solid object).
v.2 says the earth (a solid object) was FORMLESS. How can that be?

Are you saying that the "earth" of v.1 wasn't a planet?

If "earth" of v.1 wasn't a planet, what exactly was it? Thanks.

Well if you think this is ridiculous, then you are close to hearing any points to be made , so why waste my time on a person who has that attitude

You are the one who said God didn't create planets, science did. Post #18, remember?

I'm simply asking for clarification of what YOU said.

If that presents an "attitude", then just deal with it.

If you can't explain yourself better, why do you post? When posters ask for clarification, you need to help them out and explain yourself better.

Another thing: don't deny something that is clearly evident to everyone. Bad form.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It reminds me of the potter and the clay...

A blob of clay is formed into a useful shape - It sounds like the earth was originally a blob of matter without life - formless and void.

But..... even a "blob" has a shape/form. Haven't you ever heard "It looked like a blob.

Like I said, every object has a form or shape.

Or, can you explain how a solid object can have no shape or form. Even in your example, you described shape. (blob)

 

[FreeGrace2]

So I did not read your whole explanation, are you talking about millions of years of life and death before verse two? Or just a formless earth?

Well, now you're asking about theories. Which is where the "GAP theory" came from.

What I'm talking about is simply the age of the earth. And those who actually dive into researching the key words in v.2 know that the "traditional translation" is woefully inadequate and even impossible. For as everyone knows, EVERY solid object as a form.

So it is impossible for God to create a solid object (earth) formless.

Can God create a round square. Or a square sphere?

No. God cannot be inconsistent or contradictory. That would violate His perfection.

As well, God cannot create a formless object.

So the traditional translation of v.2 is wrong. And misleading.

 

[public hermit]

I think we can get the real story just from Scripture, as my posts reflect.

Of course, you do. Augustine thought he was interpreting scripture in the best possible way, too. Although, he had enough humility to admit there might be another legitimate interpretation. Do you disagree with his take, if so, in what way? How would you characterize formless matter in a way that differentiates it from Augustine's prime matter?