How do you tell the difference

[RaymondG]

Now you are contradicting yourself. This is what you said in the previous post:



You said parents teach us good and bad just like god does. So how does God know what is good and bad?

I am using your language.....which is why i put it in quotes. In reality, there is no good and evil....just our perception of it.

Spinach is not bad just because I do like it.....neither is electricity bad because it kills a few people every year. They just Are..... And it is we who, through our use and perception of them, who determine whether it is good or bad.

Parent teach us good and bad because they know no better. God determines what to give to us base on the seeds we plant.

Some people put they hand in a bag full of mixed up seeds and throw them all in the dirt......and when they produce unexpected fruit, they say it is bad or God is sending something their way that is not good for them.... but in reality, they just did not know what seeds they put in the ground...

God Is.......just like I Am.

 

[disciple Clint]

If Jesus is God and is responsible for what God has done in the bible then yes Jesus has done bad things.

show me where He has done "bad things"

 

[Tolworth John]

To maximize well being for all

Thank you for replying.

So how does maximizing the well being of all work when some people's well being involves other people's loss.
I am thinking of records, some people's well being is improved by ending the marriage. This though comes at the loss to any children in that marriage.
Stats show that records of their parents does harm children.

So in your view should records be easy when there are children or harder.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Through His Spirit. His Spirit lives with me.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In summary my subjective standard is Well Being. To maximize well being for all. With that standard I can then objectively analyze actions to see if they would further or hinder that goal.

We can discuss the subjective standard but most people generally agree it is a reasonable good starting point.

It is different than gods because it uses logic and reason to determine what is moral not just an assertion from a god. It is also different because it can change depending on the situation.

It can be used to see if Gods morals maximize well being or not and determine if a god has good morals or not.

How's that working so far?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The best moral thing to do is that which maximizes the well being of all involved.

That's what God has planned for mankind. Man has no such plan.

 

[TedT]

How do you tell the difference between a good god and a bad god that is lying about being a good god? Christians refer to the Bible to indicate that God is good. Why isn't the possibility that God is bad and telling us he is good in the bible plausible? How would you know?

I'm convinced this is the very question that led Satan into his rebellion because it led naturally to denying faith: "If HE won't prove HIMself, should we not be wary of HIS claims?" Yet the fulfillment of HIS purpose for us to have a real marriage with HIM based upon love makes our free will an absolute necessity and the proof of HIS power and deity would coerce that decision in HIS favour wrecking our free will for this choice and making us all unable to ever fulfill HIS purpose for us.

We are saved by faith, not proof! Anyway, we saw the prof already but rejected it because we love sin more, Rom 1.

 

[bling]

No you don't know what the bible says on this issue. Only Hebrew slaves were released at Jubilee. Non Hebrew slaves were slaves for life and could be handed down as property to the next generation. God allowed the Isrealites to take people from the nations around them to be slaves against their will and be slaves for life.

Bottom line:

Slaves and slave owners are in no way hindered from becoming saved children of God, so it does not matter if you are a slave or slave owner. Remember the condition you are in through this short life helps willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective and not necessarily have a pleasant life on earth.

The Jews turned to God in slavery and seemed to turn away from God when things were going well.

Jews that did buy foreigners as slaves had a hug responsibility to care for them and be a blessing to all people (including their slaves), so hopefully the slaves of the Jews in the Promised Land would become Jews from the example of their master. There should be a much greater chance of them become part of God’s people as a slave of a Jew then remaining in a foreign land.

So you agree that a woman should be forced to marry her rapist because they are not good enough at deciding for themselves who they should marry. Wow.

Again, the bottom line is: What is the greatest help for a willing individual to fulfill their earthly objective and live eternally with God? It is not who you are married to, but what you do in the situation you are in.

God did just that Ex 20:5, numbers 14:18, Ex34:6-7.

The word “punishing” can also be translated “disciplining”. “Disciplining” for the huge sin of idolatry can help anyone realize how bad this sin was and why I do not want to do it.

What do you mean?

Like I said above Loving discipline correctly accepted can help a person to Love the parent all the more.

Good can and should come out of every opportunity (tragedy), but these opportunities have to be ceased by God’s people.

 

[TedT]

There is no difference......God creates good and evil.

Unacceptable.

Light cannot create darkness.
Has any source of light ever been turned on and dark came out filling the room pitch black? The idea is absurd. And light as a metaphor for GOD's righteousness is a perfect analogy.

A good tree cannot put forth rotten fruit.
A stream of life giving water cannot put forth salt or brackish water.

GOODNESS cannot bring forth evil.

GOD creates brings jugements and punishments of disaster and suffering in righteousness, HE does not create moral evil.

 

[TedT]

Exactly..... God just.......Is.... He cannot be confined into any singular attribute.....the moment we do, He is no longer God.....just our image of a God.

Two essential atheists defining GOD....riiiiiight. One asking pretend Socratic type questions and the other defining himself out of any belief in GOD at all.

 

[TedT]

GospelS said: ↑
God has provided us with enough evidence.

It is demonstrable false that he has since I do not believe.

Disbelief is NOT proof that the evidence is false.

Intransigence against belief is what leads to denial because we have all seen the truth of the hidden things of GOD and have no excuse.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God doesn't create evil, he creates the consequences of evil.

 

[TedT]

Where is the good evidence here for belief? How do you know Jesus was resurrected?

You constantly conflate evidence with proof. You ask for evidence but then reject it because it does not prove anything to you but only indicates where proof resides.

Knowing evidence is not PROOF, we can still assert:
The BIBLE IS EVIDENCE:
Acceptable to you or not, it is the premier evidence and claim that GOD is involved with humans to redeem us from evil. The Book is there, it is real. I will give you a copy if you doubt its reality. It has been an amazing in world influence out of proportion to its beginnings in a small dessert tribe from which it came.

THE LIFE OF CHRIST IS EVIDENCE:
Acceptable to you or not, the stories of the life of Christ have had a great impact upon whole cultures which proves its evidentiary status. Good evidence or insufficient evidence but it is evidence.

THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT IS EVIDENCE:
Acceptable to you or not, those who experience a direct interaction / conversation / influence of God in their lives and thoughts have this experience as evidence. We will not be gaslighted by those who claim we are untrustworthy and making things up just because we accept the evidence we have seen which a skeptic has not yet seen.

THE CHANGE IN OUR VALUES SYSTEM IS EVIDENCE:
Acceptable to you or not, those who have been brought to repentance (had their eyes opened to their evil by being allowed to be evil until the suffering they have caused breaks them) and rebirth know they are different people and this metamorphosis is real and acceptable to them as evidence of GOD's work with them whether it can be argued it might be caused by other causes than GOD or not. All good things can be perverted to the use of evil, nothing is totally sacred on earth.

THE WITNESS OF PEOPLE WITH A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE IS EVIDENCE:
Acceptable to you or not, billions of people attesting to something is evidence. If they did not attest, there is no evidentiary value in their silence just like there is no evidence of a deity named HRUXIS because he has no book, no history of interaction with anyone, and no one attesting to his existence...That is no evidence!

A LACK OF EVIDENCE IS NOT PROOF OF A LACK OF REALITY:
For a hundred years sailors who made it as far as Australia reported seeing black swans. They were scorned by the British natural societies as liars or hallucinators, destroying their reputations as scientists, because there was no evidence!...until there was. Someone finally got a carcass to Britain and this led to the the understanding of the logical fallacy that no evidence must mean no reality.

NO EVIDENCE is often seen to mean 'no proof' in writings about the roots of Christianity. No proof is the obvious meaning of no evidence when there is abundant evidence for belief...but it is not universally accepted.

Not accepting the evidence as sufficient for belief is NOT proof the evidence does not exist.

Peace, Ted

 

[TedT]

How do you know this is true?

I am asking how you know. How do you know the Holy Spirit lives in you?

You persist in asking for proof. Christians live by faith, not proof (2 Corinthians 5:7 For we live by faith, not by sight.) and faith is an unproven HOPE, Heb 11:1!

How do you know that the thoughts in your mind are your own and not someone else's? Are you tormented that they might be someone else's thoughts? Of course not, you just know even though it can't be proven.

 

[TedT]

Can God not stop what Satan does? If He can and does not then who is evil? If He cannot then He is not ion charge.

Of course HE can and often does! All suffering is mitigated by the needs of the sinful elect to understand their own evil and repent and to understand the inevitable depths of the evil of the reprobate that makes their banishment to the outer darkness a necessity.

Satan is indeed reigned in down here and can't be as evil as he wants to be, though the whole world suffers under the just judgements against sin every day. But only as much suffering from evil comes to the sinful elect as is necessary for their sanctification as harsh disciplines in their being trained in righteousness: Heb 12:5-11.

This situation exists because some elect called the good seed have chosen to be sinful and so must live with the Satanic until they are holy because if the judgment is called too early they will be destroyed by it: Matt 13, the parable of the weeds in two parts.

 

[RaymondG]

Unacceptable.

Light cannot create darkness.
Has any source of light ever been turned on and dark came out filling the room pitch black? The idea is absurd. And light as a metaphor for GOD's righteousness is a perfect analogy.

A good tree cannot put forth rotten fruit.
A stream of life giving water cannot put forth salt or brackish water.

GOODNESS cannot bring forth evil.

GOD creates brings jugements and punishments of disaster and suffering in righteousness, HE does not create moral evil.

You might want to spend a little more time in study. You are calling God a lair, not me.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45

It did sound good though.

 

[RaymondG]

God doesn't create evil, he creates the consequences of evil.

Wrong again.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

 

[RaymondG]

Two essential atheists defining GOD....riiiiiight. One asking pretend Socratic type questions and the other defining himself out of any belief in GOD at all.

No point is any further discussion....Since you dismiss words quoted from scripture...

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I am using your language.....which is why i put it in quotes. In reality, there is no good and evil....just our perception of it.

Spinach is not bad just because I do like it.....neither is electricity bad because it kills a few people every year. They just Are..... And it is we who, through our use and perception of them, who determine whether it is good or bad.

Parent teach us good and bad because they know no better. God determines what to give to us base on the seeds we plant.

Some people put they hand in a bag full of mixed up seeds and throw them all in the dirt......and when they produce unexpected fruit, they say it is bad or God is sending something their way that is not good for them.... but in reality, they just did not know what seeds they put in the ground...

God Is.......just like I Am.

So now God does not know what is good or what is bad. Which is it? Does God know what is good and bad, yes or no?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

show me where He has done "bad things"

The flood, ordering the killing of the Amalakites, letting Satan kill Jobs family, letting children get raped everyday etc. etc. etc. The bible is full of them.