Is faith a gift that only God can give us? (Note: I have an answer, but I would like input).

Is faith a gift that only God can give to us?


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Ceallaigh

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Several problems here on your interpretation of 1 Timothy 6:12.

Problem #1. - You are not reading and believing this verse at face value. It says FIGHT the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life. So think about the word “fight.” Does that sound like you do nothing? No. Of course not. We fight the good fight is tied to the truth that says: “we lay hold on eternal life.” Final eternal life in being “glorified” (i.e. being taken home to be with the Lord). For it is why a particular church was told to be faithful unto death and they would be given the crown of life (Revelation 2:10).

Problem #2. - You say that this is dealing with the context of pursuing riches of this world like false teachers. This is true. Paul says, “you, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.” (1 Timothy 6:11). So if “I flee chasing after riches and follow or chase after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, etc.” am I not doing something? Is not my fleeing riches and following after righteousness and godliness (holy living) an action in some way? Am I doing nothing by doing this? Surely not. So this is a part of the good fight of faith in laying hold on eternal life. I have to be faithful unto death so as to receive the crown of life. Faithful not in just in having a mental acknowledgement of the Savior. For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). So your bringing in the context about riches only helps to prove my case by our obeying the Lord, and it does not prove your case in doing nothing.

Problem #3. - You also fail to look at the context of 1 Timothy 6:3-4. 1 Timothy 6:3-4 says, “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,...”;

Not sure if you caught it or not, but Paul is saying that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. Is a proud man saved? Well, according to James 4:6, it says: God resists the proud and He gives grace to the humble. Think about that for a moment. The person who does not agree with godly living according to God's Word knows nothing and they are proud. Is a person who thinks they can sin and still be saved agreeing with the doctrine of godliness or the words of Jesus Christ? Well, when I tell other Christians today about Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Luke 10:25-28, many of them say that those words do not exactly apply to them. In other words, they are not agreeing with the words of Jesus. Paul said that a man who does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness is proud and he knows nothing. Let that sink in, brother.

The problem is that when I say what most Christians say, that salvation is not earned though works and performance and that it's not a do-it-yourself thing... you misinterpret that as saying we don't have to do anything at all. That seems to be the crux of your lengthy lectures and numerous verses.

It seems to always come down to you having it stuck in your head that saying salvation isn't earned though works... is claiming that it's okay for Christians to be reprobate - which isn't the case.
 
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Ramon

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MMXX,

If I may intervene for a second, not trying to be on anyone's side on this, I believe that perhaps his approach and attempt of explaining his point isn't coming across right. The same with him not understanding your point either. That's why sometimes is better to find a common ground and then see where the road separates for the both of you and then discuss why? I'm not sensing brother here lol.
 
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Ceallaigh

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That's the supernatural gift of faith, completely different to your everyday garden variety of faith. The gift requires no knowledge/learning (ie.hearing the Word Rom.10:17) It was needed a lot more in the early days as the canon of (NT) scripture was not complete.

I think Godly faith in any form has a supernatural element. Many hear the word and don't have faith. There are atheists who know the bible better than a lot of Christians. But what they don't have is the indwelling of Holy Spirit. Hebrews 1:11 tells us that "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
 
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Ceallaigh

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MMXX,

If I may intervene for a second, not trying to be on anyone's side on this, I believe that perhaps his approach and attempt of explaining his point isn't coming across right. The same with him not understanding your point either. That's why sometimes is better to find a common ground and then see where the road separates for the both of you and then discuss why? I'm not sensing brother here lol.

We've been at this quite a bit for quite a while. I agree that it would be better to discuss as bothers having a common ground, rather than as rivals. I don't think rivalry cancels out love, but it doesn't exactly promote it either lol.
 
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Ramon

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We've been at this quite a bit for quite a while. I agree that it would be better to discuss as bothers having a common ground, rather than as rivals. I don't think rivalry cancels out love, but it doesn't exactly promote it either lol.

I know you 2 have been at it, I been reading it with popcorn lol.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Are you totally on fire for 1 Timothy 6:12? It's a part of God's Word. What do you think it says?

"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses"

I'm supposing you are focusing on "fight the good fight" and especially "lay hold on eternal life" and what that means to me on a personnel basis, rather than what Paul was instructing Timothy on as a whole.

To me on a personal basis, fight the good fight means to fight against that which would cause me to stumble. I see it being in conjunction with Ephesians 6:12 "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

To me lay hold on eternal life means to cling to Jesus, because he is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). In 1 Timothy 1:16 Paul says, "However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life."

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The scriptures say that God tests us (but not beyond our ability) punishes us, prunes us, shapes us, salts us with fire and so on. After a period of complacency, I'm totally on fire again. And I attribute that totally to God. I didn't get my act together. God kicked me in the seat of my pants to get me where He wants me to be. And then to extend that further.

But how can one be chastised if one does not accept the Bible's standard on sin and salvation?

For if I recall my previous conversation with you correctly: You believe 1 John 1:9 is dealing with Initial Salvation when in reality it is a thing that a believer can potentially do on rare occasion after being saved by God's grace because only past sin is forgiven us and not future sin. For if future sin was forgiven us, then we would treat God's grace as a license to sin (on some level), or we would not be broken up about our sin and the evil that it truly causes. But more importantly Jesus warned us about how sin can lead to punishment in the afterlife. For Jesus us in Matthew 5:28-30 that looking upon a woman in lust is enough for a person to be in danger of hellfire. Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). Matthew 12:37 says that if we can be condemned by our words. Luke 9:62 says, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life. The list goes on and on. Salvation is more than just having a belief alone in Jesus Christ.
 
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I still think your comment about demolishing my argument sounded boastful.

God knows my heart, my thoughts, and my intentions and my conscience is clean. There was no ill will towards you at all. God commands me to love everyone. I hate the false belief and not any person. You can see wrong in my contending for the faith if you wish, but God knows all things and I cannot hide from Him. For if I do wrong, I know God will bring it to my attention, and I naturally confess and forsake such a sin, and pray for the Lord to protect me against such an evil.

You said:
And as far as ignoring goes, I don't always have the time to address everything you post.

I have found that if something is important enough to a person, they make the time. For me, discussing God's Word is a delight, and a privilege. Jude 1:3 says, “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” But for me: It comes natural to do so. I suppose it is because I like fighting the good fight (1 Timothy 6:12).

You said:
Which is pretty excessive as others have pointed out.

The Bible may appear to be overwhelming for some to read, but that does not mean we give up in reading it. The majority of what I provide is Scripture verses. They are God's words. Surely they should be a delight for you to study, and not a burden.

You said:
And It's hard to put aside your online demeanor because it comes on so strong.

I strive to make everything that I write to a person using God's Word. I want to have less of me, and more of the Lord. The Lord offended many because of His words.

You said:
As to your verses; you think I'm holding a view or position that I'm not actually holding.

There are different levels of those who believe they can sin and still be saved.

Some believe you can sin like the devil with no restrictions whatsoever and still be saved. I have encountered these kinds of Christians both online and in person.

Some believe you must generally live holy (whatever that means), but they do not think one or two serious sins (like lusting after women, or lying, or cussing, etc.) will keep them out of God's kingdom.

There are those who deny Eternal Security or OSAS but they also believe that no sin can separate them from God, and that God will simply chastise them at some point. When? Who knows. But they do not regard sin in the same way Jesus and His followers regard sin in that they warned how certain sins can cause a loss of salvation (Unless one repents of such a sin). Generally Free Will Baptists hold to this kind of belief.

You basically admitted to me before that if a believer generally lived a holy life and they lusted after a woman and then immediately got hit by a bus and died, they would be saved. This to me is turning God's grace into a license for immorality. Why? Because the moment we start excusing one sin, then we start excusing another, and another, etc. Granted, I am not saying God would actually just toss out a believer in a situation like this. I believe God would give a believer many chances to get His act together if he struggled with looking at women. But the point here is that one sin can destroy a believer's soul. We seen it happen with Ananias and Sapphira. They each lied to the Spirit and they were each killed. They did not end up in Heaven. For a great fear came upon the church when they heard about what happened. This is a truth that I am begging you to see in the Scriptures. It's not a happy truth, but it is none the less, the truth of what His Word says.
 
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Ceallaigh

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But how can one be chastised if one does not accept the Bible's standard on sin and salvation?

For if I recall my previous conversation with you correctly: You believe 1 John 1:9 is dealing with Initial Salvation when in reality it is a thing that a believer can potentially do on rare occasion after being saved by God's grace because only past sin is forgiven us and not future sin. For if future sin was forgiven us, then we would treat God's grace as a license to sin (on some level), or we would not be broken up about our sin and the evil that it truly causes. But more importantly Jesus warned us about how sin can lead to punishment in the afterlife. For Jesus us in Matthew 5:28-30 that looking upon a woman in lust is enough for a person to be in danger of hellfire. Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). Matthew 12:37 says that if we can be condemned by our words. Luke 9:62 says, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life. The list goes on and on. Salvation is more than just having a belief alone in Jesus Christ.

You're still stuck on and seem obsessed over thinking that I and others are saying it's alright for a Christian to be a reprobate - which neither I or anyone else I can think of on CF has said.
 
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sawdust

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I think Godly faith in any form has a supernatural element. Many hear the word and don't have faith. There are atheists who know the bible better than a lot of Christians. But what they don't have is the indwelling of Holy Spirit. Hebrews 1:11 tells us that "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Knowing what the Bible says and understanding what it means and relating to it are not the same thing. There is a lot more than not having the indwelling Holy Spirit. In fact, even OT believers didn't have that.

We know that the "gift of faith" is different to having faith because the gift is only given to some. If it were the faith needed to please God it would be given to all believers.

The Hebrews 11 faith is the faith needed to live by each day and the reason it is absolute is because faith comes from the Word and the Word is absolute.
 
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sawdust

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Could you elaborate the difference between one faith and another?

I thought I had but it seems not enough. I have to go out now but could you give me a little more detail as to what it is you don't understand please? You could also look at my post #151 .. it might help clarify.
 
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Knowing what the Bible says and understanding what it means and relating to it are not the same thing. There is a lot more than not having the indwelling Holy Spirit. In fact, even OT believers didn't have that.

We know that the "gift of faith" is different to having faith because the gift is only given to some. If it were the faith needed to please God it would be given to all believers.

The Hebrews 11 faith is the faith needed to live by each day and the reason it is absolute is because faith comes from the Word and the Word is absolute.

I agree. The gift of faith in 1 Corinthians 12 was a special kind of faith and not the faith that God requires of man when first coming to saving faith and in continuing in the faith. This kind of gift of faith in 1 Corinthians 12 was a special empowerment and it is not something that every believer had.
 
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Ceallaigh

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God knows my heart, my thoughts, and my intentions and my conscience is clean. There was no ill will towards you at all. God commands me to love everyone. I hate the false belief and not any person. You can see wrong in my contending for the faith if you wish, but God knows all things and I cannot hide from Him. For if I do wrong, I know God will bring it to my attention, and I naturally confess and forsake such a sin, and pray for the Lord to protect me against such an evil.

Don't be so dramatic.

I have found that if something is important enough to a person, they make the time. For me, discussing God's Word is a delight, and a privilege. Jude 1:3 says, “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” But for me: It comes natural to do so. I suppose it is because I like fighting the good fight (1 Timothy 6:12).

Addressing every detail in your lengthy posts and addressing all of the many verses you post, is too time consuming. Most of us have other things to attend to in fighting the good fight.

The Bible may appear to be overwhelming for some to read, but that does not mean we give up in reading it. The majority of what I provide is Scripture verses. They are God's words. Surely they should be a delight for you to study, and not a burden.

It's your lengthy discourse that's the issue, not the Bible.

I strive to make everything that I write to a person using God's Word. I want to have less of me, and more of the Lord. The Lord offended many because of His words.

The bulk of your posts is your own words and you tend to be loquacious (and repetitive). If you want to be loquacious, that's fine. But don't complain that others aren't laying aside a bunch of time to go though all of it.

There are different levels of those who believe they can sin and still be saved.

Some believe you can sin like the devil with no restrictions whatsoever and still be saved. I have encountered these kinds of Christians both online and in person.

Some believe you must generally live holy (whatever that means), but they do not think one or two serious sins (like lusting after women, or lying, or cussing, etc.) will keep them out of God's kingdom.

There are those who deny Eternal Security or OSAS but they also believe that no sin can separate them from God, and that God will simply chastise them at some point. When? Who knows. But they do not regard sin in the same way Jesus and His followers regard sin in that they warned how certain sins can cause a loss of salvation (Unless one repents of such a sin). Generally Free Will Baptists hold to this kind of belief.

You basically admitted to me before that if a believer generally lived a holy life and they lusted after a woman and then immediately got hit by a bus and died, they would be saved. This to me is turning God's grace into a license for immorality. Why? Because the moment we start excusing one sin, then we start excusing another, and another, etc. Granted, I am not saying God would actually just toss out a believer in a situation like this. I believe God would give a believer many chances to get His act together if he struggled with looking at women. But the point here is that one sin can destroy a believer's soul. We seen it happen with Ananias and Sapphira. They each lied to the Spirit and they were each killed. They did not end up in Heaven. For a great fear came upon the church when they heard about what happened. This is a truth that I am begging you to see in the Scriptures. It's not a happy truth, but it is none the less, the truth of what His Word says.

I get the impression that you are insecure regarding your own salvation.

Now as you yourself said at the beginning, "God knows my heart, my thoughts, and my intentions". And I think that is the bottom line regarding whether or not someone is saved.

Or perhaps I should say being saved, as I'm personally tending to look at salvation from the perspective of Theosis. Or at least Christification.

Here's a brief video about Theosis for those unfamiliar with it.

 
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Ceallaigh

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Knowing what the Bible says and understanding what it means and relating to it are not the same thing. There is a lot more than not having the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Like what?

In fact, even OT believers didn't have that.

I'm not so sure about that considering Psalm 51:11 says, "Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me."

We know that the "gift of faith" is different to having faith because the gift is only given to some. If it were the faith needed to please God it would be given to all believers.

The Hebrews 11 faith is the faith needed to live by each day and the reason it is absolute is because faith comes from the Word and the Word is absolute.

So how would you describe the "gift of faith"?
 
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The problem is that when I say what most Christians say, that salvation is not earned though works and performance and that it's not a do-it-yourself thing... you misinterpret that as saying we don't have to do anything at all.

Well, first, I am referring to the work of faith in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11, and not your average ordinary works in general that men do. The work of faith is anything that the Bible specifically tells you to do like preach the gospel, help the poor, feed the sheep, etc.; Preaching the gospel, helping the poor, feeding the sheep is all based on love of your neighbor. If we love the lost, we will tell them about our Lord and His saving plan of salvation in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. If we love our neighbor, we will do what we can to help those in need. If we love the brethren, we will desire to feed them God's Word and to edify one another.

Second, when I refer to how you believe that no works is needed in your belief system: Well, I am referring to how you think works is not salvific. For if you think works is not salvific, then there really is no need to do any works because they are simply extra credit. They serve no real purpose of you entering the kingdom and so they are just bonus points. They really are not required because they do not save. A person can easily be led to believe that you are teaching a “doing nothing at all” kind of belief if you tell them that works do not save. However, you fail to understand that the “work of faith” is a part of the “faith;” Just as the “work of the Lord” is a part of “the Lord.”

Three, I believe God ultimatley does the good work through the believer by their faith and trust in the Lord (See: John 15:5) (Philippians 2:13).

You said:
That seems to be the crux of your lengthy lectures and numerous verses.

And why would I do such a thing?

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend;...” (Proverbs 27:6).

You said:
It seems to always come down to you having it stuck in your head that saying salvation isn't earned though works... is claiming that it's okay for Christians to be reprobate - which isn't the case.

Remember, Jesus told a church that was lukewarm that He would spew them out of His mouth.
We are either obeying the Lord or we are our own lords and masters. We cannot serve two masters. We need to truly choose this day in whom we will serve. For it is more than just works (i.e. the work of faith). It is holiness. Holy living is also a part of the faith. For we are commanded to be holy in God's Word. So a believer cannot justify the idea that they can commit serious sin (grievous sin) on some level, and still be saved. God cannot agree with serious sin that He condemns with warnings of hellfire or condemnation in His own Word. Remember, those who did wonderful works in Christ's name were told to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity (sin). This is why the Lord did not know them. This ties in to 1 John 2:3-4.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Well, first, I am referring to the work of faith in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11, and not your average ordinary works in general that men do. The work of faith is anything that the Bible specifically tells you to do like preach the gospel, help the poor, feed the sheep, etc.; Preaching the gospel, helping the poor, feeding the sheep is all based on love of your neighbor. If we love the lost, we will tell them about our Lord and His saving plan of salvation in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. If we love our neighbor, we will do what we can to help those in need. If we love the brethren, we will desire to feed them God's Word and to edify one another.

Second, when I refer to how you believe that no works is needed in your belief system: Well, I am referring to how you think works is not salvific. For if you think works is not salvific, then there really is not need to do any works because they are simply extra credit. They serve no real purpose of you entering the kingdom and so they are just bonus points. They really are not required because they do not save. A person can easily be led to believe that you are teaching a “doing nothing at all” kind of belief if you tell them that works do not save. However, you fail to understand that the “work of faith” is a part of the “faith;” Just as the “work of the Lord” is a part of “the Lord.”

Three, I believe God ultimatley does the good work through the believer by their faith and trust in the Lord (See: John 15:5) (Philippians 2:13).



And why would I do such a thing?

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend;...” (Proverbs 27:6).



Remember, Jesus told a church that was lukewarm that He would spew them out of His mouth.
We are either obeying the Lord or we are our own lords and masters. We cannot serve two masters. We need to truly choose this day in whom we will serve. For it is more than just works (i.e. the work of faith). It is holiness. Holy living is also a part of the faith. For we are commanded to be holy in God's Word. So a believer cannot justify the idea that they can commit serious sin (grievous sin) on some level, and still be saved. God cannot agree with serious sin that He condemns with warnings of hellfire or condemnation in His own Word. Remember, those who did wonderful works in Christ's name were told to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity (sin). This is why the Lord did not know them. This ties in to 1 John 2:3-4.

Sorry bro, that's too much to go though in addition to other things I'm attending to.
 
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"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses"

I'm supposing you are focusing on "fight the good fight" and especially "lay hold on eternal life" and what that means to me on a personnel basis, rather than what Paul was instructing Timothy on as a whole.

To me on a personal basis, fight the good fight means to fight against that which would cause me to stumble. I see it being in conjunction with Ephesians 6:12 "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

To me lay hold on eternal life means to cling to Jesus, because he is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). In 1 Timothy 1:16 Paul says, "However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life."

It is true that Jesus is eternal life (John 14:6). But we have to abide in Jesus in order to have life. 1 John 5:12 says, he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life. However, what you fail to understand is that 1 John 2:3 says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.” You also fail to understand that 1 John 2:4 says, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

For in your version of fighting the good fight of faith, you see it as a continuing to believe in Jesus. But Jesus also warned in Matthew 7:26-27 that if any man does not do what He says, He is like a fool who built His house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. So fighting the good fight of faith is indeed doing what the Lord says. In context, this is what is in view in 1 Timothy chapter 6. For if a man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine of godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). We are to flee earthly riches and follow after righteousness and godliness instead (1 Timothy 6:9-11). These all involve some form of action on our part. These things are all a part of the faith. Fight the good fight of faith. It's a good fight. Standing up for that which is righteous and good by the Lord's Word and not justifying that which is wrong and or evil. For that is what a belief alone for salvation eventually leads to. It leads to one doing whatever one likes (sinful) on some level. But I will fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life. You can keep just believing in Jesus alone if you like, and shoot down those who desire to obey God's Word as a part of the faith. But I will trust His Word in what it says (even if it does not make for me many friends). I know Jesus will be my friend, if I do what He commands (John 15:14).
 
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Ceallaigh

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It is true that Jesus is eternal life. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life. What you fail to understand is that 1 John 2:3 says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.” You also do not understand that 1 John 2:4 says, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

In your version of fighting the good fight of faith, you see it as a continuing to believe in Jesus. But Jesus also warned in Matthew 7:26-27 that if any man does not do what He says, He is like a fool who built His house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. So fighting the good fight of faith is indeed doing what the Lord says. In context, this is what is in view in 1 Timothy chapter 6. For if a man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine of godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). We are to flee earthly riches and follow after righteousness and godliness instead. These all involve some form of action on our part. These things are all a part of the faith. Fight the good fight of faith. It's a good fight. Standing up for that which is righteous and good by the Lord's Word and not justifying that which is wrong and or evil. For that is what a belief alone for salvation eventually leads to. It leads to one doing whatever one likes on some level. But I will fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life. You can keep just believing in Jesus alone if you like, and shoot down those who desire to obey God's Word as a part of the faith. But I will trust His Word in what it says (even if it does not make for me many friends).

You are once again making up what I believe and fail to understand in order to knock it down.

It seems you obviously want to argue against a certain sort of Christian, and since one isn't available, you're using me as a sounding board.

I fairly recently re-read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and I read everything that Jesus said, and I take all that he said into consideration when I say that I cling to to Jesus.

Now even though I said that, I expect you to ignore it, and continue to repeat this routine. But not out of malice. I think you have an obsessive compulsive problem and you can't help yourself.
 
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You are once again making up what I believe and fail to understand in order to knock it down.

It seems you obviously want to argue against a certain sort of Christian, and since one isn't available, you're using me as a sounding board.

I fairly recently re-read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and I know everything that Jesus said, and I take all that he said into consideration when I say that I cling to to Jesus.

Now even though I said that, I expect you to ignore it, and continue to repeat this routine.

You said in another thread, I quote:

“The way I see it all of us Christians are prone to sinning. Both sins of commission and omission. But we do not practice sin. To practice sin means practicing sin the way a doctor practices medicine. Practicing sin also means delighting in sin. Not seeing it as wrong and evil the way God does.

Some who are worried about the Gnostic teaching that turns God's grace into a license for immorality, go overboard in declaring that every single time we commit a sin, we lose our salvation, and we have to keep being born again over and over and over again.” Quote by: MMXX.

Source:
Post #241 - Paul does not teach Belief Alone-ism for Salvation

So I am not arguing against nothing here. I believe the Bible teaches one sin can separate a believer from God if they refuse to confess and forsake such a sin. To justify even one sin with the thinking we are saved is still a license for immorality. For how many sins did it take for Adam needed to commit in order for the fall of mankind to happen? How many sins did Ananias and Sapphira do before they were each killed? Do you think Ananias and Sapphira lost their salvation by them each committing a one time sin? What about the prodigal son? Was he saved while he was living it up with prostitutes? How many times do you have to sin before you reach the point of where you are practicing sin? Is it 10 sins? Is it 30 sins?
 
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