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@tampasteve Hey thank you for the creed. I dont personally subscribe to man-made creeds but that is cool.
That is the thing though, it is not what I am telling you. It is how the scripture is to be interpreted in light of the rest of the body of scripture that points to the Trinity.See that is the thing @tampasteve.
Do I believe what you are telling me, or do I believe what Jesus Christ is telling me, about God?
Honestly? I would highly advise you to read more of Church history, the Early Church Fathers, and theology of the Cross and Trinity. I get the feeling you read the passages in scripture and kind of left it there, without really delving into the belief of the Trinity.What do you do?
Not really, it just requires a little more effort to attempt to understand.When trying to explain the trinity, a person has to go around and around with scripture twisting it ways that are impossible.
I would not "force" anyone to hold a truth. But I would ask that the believe while learning more about the belief they are saying is not true. Healthy skepticism is good, but a good sceptic continues their investigation before leaving other options off the table. A good sceptic fully investigates their skepticism.You tell that person anyway, if they have doubts about what they are being told, is truth or not?
Do you force them that if they do not accept it, they are not a true Christian?
I trust in Christ and the scriptures. I know them to be true, I know the Creeds to be based on those same beliefs and scriptures. But I have also been around the horn from apostate to believer again.These are the questions against the creed you suggesting that I should believe in or accept -> When my acceptance will always lean on towards what Christ Jesus has stated and not what men has to say.
Especially when it comes down please note *Jesus Christ* and what he is saying -> and also agree with the other -> Scribe asking the question. In the scriptures of Mark which are seen here very plainly.
Who do you trust?
I sense an anti-Trinitarian litany coming on.Check the scripture out, if you desire to.
Marks 12:
28 And one of the scribes having come near, having heard them disputing, knowing that he answered them well, questioned him, `Which is the first command of all?'
29 and Jesus answered him -- `The first of all the commands [is], Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one;
30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God out of all thy heart, and out of thy soul, and out of all thine understanding, and out of all thy strength -- this [is] the first command;
31 and the second [is] like [it], this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; -- greater than these there is no other command.'
32 And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He;
33 and to love Him out of all the heart, and out of all the understanding, and out of all the soul, and out of all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as one's self, is more than all the whole burnt-offerings and the sacrifices.'
34 And Jesus, having seen him that he answered with understanding, said to him, `Thou art not far from the reign of God;' and no one any more durst question him.
What do you think about what Jesus has to say about God being One -> When it comes to answering this scribe that came and asked Yeshua -> Which is the first command of all?
In this section of scripture Jesus and the Scribe are talking about the Great Shema.
Do you believe in what the Lord Jesus Christ has to say about God?
Are the scribe and the Lord Jesus Christ are agreeing apparently about what the truth is when it comes down to their conversation?
Was Jesus Christ being deceptive?
Surely not.
Check the scripture out, if you desire to.
Marks 12:
28 And one of the scribes having come near, having heard them disputing, knowing that he answered them well, questioned him, `Which is the first command of all?'
29 and Jesus answered him -- `The first of all the commands [is], Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one;
30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God out of all thy heart, and out of thy soul, and out of all thine understanding, and out of all thy strength -- this [is] the first command;
31 and the second [is] like [it], this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; -- greater than these there is no other command.'
32 And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He;
33 and to love Him out of all the heart, and out of all the understanding, and out of all the soul, and out of all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as one's self, is more than all the whole burnt-offerings and the sacrifices.'
34 And Jesus, having seen him that he answered with understanding, said to him, `Thou art not far from the reign of God;' and no one any more durst question him.
What do you think about what Jesus has to say about God being One -> When it comes to answering this scribe that came and asked Yeshua -> Which is the first command of all?
In this section of scripture Jesus and the Scribe are talking about the Great Shema.
Do you believe in what the Lord Jesus Christ has to say about God?
Are the scribe and the Lord Jesus Christ are agreeing apparently about what the truth is when it comes down to their conversation?
Was Jesus Christ being deceptive?
Surely not.
Jesus did not make up "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" or being deceptive Jesus is actually quoting one of the commandments written back in Deut 6:4 The scribe is just asking which is the first commandment of all and so Jesus recites what is already written from there. The man agrees with what Jesus said saying "Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he" then Jesus says the scribe answered discreetly and told him he is not far from the Kingdom.
Likewise Jesus also said to them
John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
There is one God, even the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ who come out from God and was made Lord by Him that sent him.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
To think he was being deceptive for quoting the commandment the scribe asked him for would be a little strange to think that way concerning it.
When a moderator or Administrator is "in thread", as I am here, they are not allowed to issue Staff Actions or close threads, but I see you put in a request to make it so. I am sure another Moderator will be along shortly to take care of it for you.@tampasteve please close this thread.
Amen, faith in Jesus Christ and day by day trying to emulate Him. Studying the scriptures and what they really mean, not just a superficial reading of one chapter taken on its own. Faith does not have to be blind, it can, and often should, be based on solid theology, which the Trinity is.Believe though @tampasteve getting closer to God requires day to day faith and trusting in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.