Thousands of vaccinated people sick, dozens dead

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Nithavela

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Come on man - talk to a friend - you are embarrassing yourself.



mRNA vaccines (subject)
are (verb)
a new type of vaccine (object)


Now do you get it?

Is a new "type" of vaccine not a vaccine?

"The Boeing 777 is a new type of airplane"

Are you seriously going to tell us the Boeing 777 is not an airplane?
The only airplane is the type that the Wright brothers flew in. Everything else were new types of airplanes, and thus no airplanes at all.

At least that's the logic I'm picking up here.
 
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expos4ever

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Besides, medicine is for sick people. I am not sick.
Seatbelts are for people experiencing violent decelerations from 70 miles per hour to 0 in less than a second.

So I assume you only put on your seatbelt at the point of impact?
 
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Tropical Wilds

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The first one is a background photo on their site.

The first one is a header photo, not a background photo, that shows the actual packaging of Moderna and it clearly is labeled “vaccine.”

I'd rather show actual text from their site. Nowhere do they use the word "vaccine". They say "medicines, operating system, platform, and software", but not "vaccine".

Here, let me help you out:

BB265DF6-B6BA-47AB-8650-17E0B6725AAF.jpeg


On that page alone, they use the word “vaccine” or “vaccination” 11 times.

Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) | Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine

On this page, they use it 34 times.

Vaccine Recipient Overview | Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (EUA)

See for yourself:

Enabling Drug Discovery & Development
We built Moderna on the guiding premise that if using mRNA as a medicine works for one disease, it should work for many diseases. And, if this is possible – given the right approach and infrastructure – it could meaningfully improve how medicines are discovered, developed and manufactured.

Our Operating System
Recognizing the broad potential of mRNA science, we set out to create an mRNA technology platform that functions very much like an operating system on a computer. It is designed so that it can plug and play interchangeably with different programs. In our case, the "program” or “app” is our mRNA drug - the unique mRNA sequence that codes for a protein.

We have a dedicated team of several hundred scientists and engineers solely focused on advancing Moderna's platform technology. They are organized around key disciplines and work in an integrated fashion to advance knowledge surrounding mRNA science and solve for challenges that are unique to mRNA drug development. Some of these disciplines include mRNA biology, chemistry, formulation & delivery, bioinformatics and protein engineering.

Our mRNA Medicines – The ‘Software of Life’
When we have a concept for a new mRNA medicine and begin research, fundamental components are already in place.

Generally, the only thing that changes from one potential mRNA medicine to another is the coding region – the actual genetic code that instructs ribosomes to make protein. Utilizing these instruction sets gives our investigational mRNA medicines a software-like quality. We also have the ability to combine different mRNA sequences encoding for different proteins in a single mRNA investigational medicine.

We are leveraging the flexibility afforded by our platform and the fundamental role mRNA plays in protein synthesis to pursue mRNA medicines for a broad spectrum of diseases.

Moderna_Formulation-mRNA.jpg

Within a given modality, the base components are generally identical across development candidates - formulation, 5’ region and 3’ region. Only the coding region varies based on the protein/s the potential medicine is directing cells to produce.

Learn how our Research Engine and Early Development Engine are enabling us to fully maximize the promise of mRNA to meaningfully improve how medicines are discovered, developed and manufactured.

Overcoming Key Challenges
Using mRNA to create medicines is a complex undertaking and requires overcoming novel scientific and technical challenges. We need to get the mRNA into the targeted tissue and cells while evading the immune system. If the immune system is triggered, the resultant response may limit protein production and, thus, limit the therapeutic benefit of mRNA medicines. We also need ribosomes to think the mRNA was produced naturally, so they can accurately read the instructions to produce the right protein. And we need to ensure the cells express enough of the protein to have the desired therapeutic effect.

Our multidisciplinary platform teams work together closely to address these scientific and technical challenges. This intensive cross-functional collaboration has enabled us to advance key aspects of our platform and make significant strides to deliver mRNA medicines for patients.

You copied that from the section that discusses the company’s ethos, reasons for foundation, and the broad based declaration of use and value of the mRNA technology and development, as well as how they hope to apply it to conditions from autoimmune disorders to cancer.

mRNA Platform: Drug Discovery & Development - Moderna

Basically, you went to the “about us” section of the company website and because you couldn’t find what you were looking for there, you declared it a conspiracy. The reality is you either did no research, poor research, or do not know how to use the basic functions of the internet... All great reasons to disqualify your opinion on the subject and continue to go with the information put out by the people who have the education, experience, and knowledge behind the vaccine and the virus as opposed to the self-anointed “experts” who can’t even utilize a basic website.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Also the technology was weak until they put a lipid around it so it wouldn't breakdown so quickly but even then it wasn't effective so they didn't use it. And I disagree . Covid-19 is unlike anything they had seen before and there are no long term clinical trials to make any basis on.

Incorrect. COVID-19 is an aggressive variant (sharing more than 90% of individualized markers) of a SARS-COVID strain discovered in the late 1980s, with first animal-to-human transmission in the early 1990s, with rapidizing transmission occurring through tainted food and close contact to pests in 2010. First warning that it could lead to a human pandemic came in 2012 and a major speech about it came in 2014 via the WHO. Pan-Asian countries (specifically Thailand) started developing pandemic response plans in 2015. The reason the virus was identified as quickly as it was (less than 20 days) and warnings were made about its potential for catastrophic pandemic status is because a diligent group of scientists have tracked this for the better part of 40 years with this strain earmarked as especially dangerous since 2010.

Coronaviruses closely related to the pandemic virus discovered in Japan and Cambodia

SARS-COVID vaccination trials have been occurring consistently since the 1990s in pan-Asian countries and Northern Africa. There are copious amounts of data on the results of those, all of which were encouraging but cost-prohibitive due to the relative newness of mRNA vaccine development. Those fears were erased when COVID-19 broke out and every scientist and scientific dollar was thrown at converting the knowledge we had from those trials and medications to a valid treatment for COVID-19.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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The way I see it is if people are so eager to allow their bodies their cells to be experimented on with no knowledge whatsoever of long term risks then let them be guinea pigs, count me out don't pressure other people who aren't as naive.

If you don’t want to get it, I rather you didn’t and save the shots for the people who want it and can’t get it. If you’re ok with staying masked, staying home, not patronizing businesses that require vaccinations, and otherwise continuing to self-isolate, go for it.
 
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Larniavc

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Isn’t this insistence on the use of the word vaccine being somehow important the same deflection strategy that gun nuts use when they get all in a tizz about the definition of assault rifles when a rapidly firing gun mows down a bunch of kids for the umpteenth time?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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The way I see it is if people are so eager to allow their bodies their cells to be experimented on with no knowledge whatsoever of long term risks then let them be guinea pigs, count me out don't pressure other people who aren't as naive.

I don't think they're naive... I think it's simply a case where most are more committed to a narrative than they are to their stated principle.

If the people who espouse the "there's no way to know the long term impact of this new thing" held an even remotely consistent standard when it comes to myriad of things, then I may be willing to give their reasoning more sympathy.

Yet, for some reason their "deep scrutiny" and "overly-cautious" approach to what they'll put in their body, seems to start and end with vaccinations (and in some cases GMOs), and never seems to apply to anything else.

For instance, every person I know in the real-world who says they plan on refusing the vaccine for reasons like:
"Who knows what's in it?"
"The FDA hasn't had time to review long terms effects"

...will gladly take "natural supplements" that hide their ingredients behind a line item on the label called "Immune Boosting Formula", and state clearly on the bottle "The FDA has not reviewed this"

Or to put it in a more brief way, if a person is so concerned with what they'll put in their body that they're claiming their reason for refusal is because it's new, there's not enough data on it, and the FDA hasn't had a chance to evaluate long term effects...then why in the world would they be taking supplements that they ordered of some "Natural Wellness" site that doesn't list the ingredients, and openly admits it hasn't been reviewed?


And if past behavior is any indicator, having long-term studies proving safety and efficacy won't persuade them, they'll just simply move the goalposts and find another reason why they don't want to take it... or why those studies "don't count".

We're still dealing with many of those same people refusing to embrace the MMR vaccines, and those aren't "new" by any stretch, and there's vast amounts of long term studies and data on them.


I think the "it's so new, I don't want to be a guinea pig" just happens to be the most convenient argument for them to make right now. 20-30 years from now, they'll adjust their arguments against the covid vaccines to more closely match the ones they use against the MMR vaccines.
 
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Mayzoo

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They can cal it whatever they want. It is by definition, a type of vaccine.

Yeah, it is a NEW type of vaccine, meaning the term vaccine is being expanded by the medical community. Much like the device I use to help me navigate my computer is called a mouse, but it is not a rodent, nor does it have a tail or chew on wires.

Simply put, language evolves and terms/words are redefined frequently. People do not need to adapt if they do not want to, but they of course are left behind and will have difficulty communicating with future generations or within specific fields (ie medical or technological) as they hold fast to old definitions.

Some may choose to become hysterical or attempt to kill the mouse on my computer when it is mentioned, but that will not stop the progress of language :).
 
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GoldenBoy89

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What are they when the company making them won't call them a vaccine?
What is with this meme that won’t die? They literally do call them vaccines. Where did you get the idea that they don’t?
 
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sfs

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Incorrect. COVID-19 is an aggressive variant (sharing more than 90% of individualized markers) of a SARS-COVID strain discovered in the late 1980s, with first animal-to-human transmission in the early 1990s, with rapidizing transmission occurring through tainted food and close contact to pests in 2010. First warning that it could lead to a human pandemic came in 2012 and a major speech about it came in 2014 via the WHO. Pan-Asian countries (specifically Thailand) started developing pandemic response plans in 2015. The reason the virus was identified as quickly as it was (less than 20 days) and warnings were made about its potential for catastrophic pandemic status is because a diligent group of scientists have tracked this for the better part of 40 years with this strain earmarked as especially dangerous since 2010.

Coronaviruses closely related to the pandemic virus discovered in Japan and Cambodia

SARS-COVID vaccination trials have been occurring consistently since the 1990s in pan-Asian countries and Northern Africa. There are copious amounts of data on the results of those, all of which were encouraging but cost-prohibitive due to the relative newness of mRNA vaccine development. Those fears were erased when COVID-19 broke out and every scientist and scientific dollar was thrown at converting the knowledge we had from those trials and medications to a valid treatment for COVID-19.
Just as an FYI to onlookers -- everything written above is wrong.
 
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Jaxxi

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Seatbelts are for people experiencing violent decelerations from 70 miles per hour to 0 in less than a second.

So I assume you only put on your seatbelt at the point of impact?
Driving a motor vehicle at high velocity is hardly the same as injecting myself with God knows what. You ever hear " If its not broken don't fix it"? You haven't given me any sources to back up claims which are only opinions. Nothing you can say will make me bounce down there with my arm out for that thing.
 
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expos4ever

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Driving a motor vehicle at high velocity is hardly the same as injecting myself with God knows what. You ever hear " If its not broken don't fix it"? You haven't given me any sources to back up claims which are only opinions. Nothing you can say will make me bounce down there with my arm out for that thing.
I merely pointed out the error of your analogy - as others recognized.

The vaccine is intended to prevent you from getting sick (and making others sick); so saying "Medicines are for the sick, and I am not sick" misses the point entirely.

And the idea that the case for vaccines is "opinion" is a falsehood.
 
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Aldebaran

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If you don’t want to get it, I rather you didn’t and save the shots for the people who want it and can’t get it. If you’re ok with staying masked, staying home, not patronizing businesses that require vaccinations, and otherwise continuing to self-isolate, go for it.

If getting the shots mean no longer having to be masked, you should inform the people who tell us that they still have to wear masks because having the shots doesn't mean you aren't still a Covid carrier and spreader.
 
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Aldebaran

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Isn’t this insistence on the use of the word vaccine being somehow important the same deflection strategy that gun nuts use when they get all in a tizz about the definition of assault rifles when a rapidly firing gun mows down a bunch of kids for the umpteenth time?

If they didn't, even revolvers and bolt actions would start being called machine guns.
 
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Aldebaran

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When are they ever used in mass shootings?

Does it have to be a mass shooting to matter?
A revolver can be used when the shooter doesn't want the police to have an ejected shell as a way to trace it back to a particular gun.
A bolt action rifle can be used to kill people 300 yards away. No handgun could do that with any effectiveness.
 
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Jaxxi

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I merely pointed out the error of your analogy - as others recognized.

The vaccine is intended to prevent you from getting sick (and making others sick); so saying "Medicines are for the sick, and I am not sick" misses the point entirely.

And the idea that the case for vaccines is "opinion" is a falsehood.
Since the vaccines are not mandatory, they fall in the choice category and where there is choice, there is opinion of why you feel a certain way. Your analogy about a seat belt is just as weak. Wearing a seat belt is the law and mandatory. Keep building yourself up. You're right. You win. The vaccine will save the world, cure all and end disease. It is the answer to everything
 
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