"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[Guojing]

I know he was justified by faith. But was that faith in the gospel?

I don't understand your question.

He believed the good news that God preached to him, that God will give him as many descendants as the stars in the sky, as stated in Genesis 15:5.

Are you disagreeing with my statement?

 

[timothyu]

But was that faith in the gospel?

Jesus' gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom. As Abraham already believed in God's will/governance/kingdom over his own will, they yes he would have believed in Jesus' gospel.

 

[Hammster]

I don't understand your question.

He believed the good news that God preached to him, that God will give him as many descendants as the stars in the sky, as stated in Genesis 15:5.

Are you disagreeing with my statement?

If you think that’s the gospel, okay.

 

[Guojing]

If you think that’s the gospel, okay.

I don't understand, how do you understand Genesis 15:5?

What do you think God was saying to Abraham there? Can you read the Bible literally without trying to anticipate revelation?

 

[setst777]

What I’m asking, again, is where in scripture can we find this neutral state that you implied we are in at the moment we put our trust in the finished work of Christ?

There is no neutral state. Those are your words, not mine.

The Gospel answer, which I gave you over five times now, is that faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17)

Romans 10:17 (NIV) 17 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Has nothing to do with being in the flesh or being in the Spirit.

We are only IN the Spirit by faith in Lord Jesus.

You must believe first before you are IN the Spirit:

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

 

[setst777]

Jesus' gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom. As Abraham already believed in God's will/governance/kingdom over his own will, they yes he would have believed in Jesus' gospel.

The core of the New Testament Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Lord Jesus on the third day, Jesus - the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16; Romans 15:1-2).

 

[setst777]

I know he was justified by faith. But was that faith in the gospel?

Which Gospel are you referring to?

Abraham believed what God told him, and acted accordingly. The faith of Abraham to God, and what God told him, was accounted to him as righteousness.

We are to have the same kind of faith in God as Abraham had. Even so, what God revealed to Abraham was the Gospel (Good News) to him, but was not the same Good News that Christians possess, and by which we are saved, in the New Covenant.

1 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB)
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently. They prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that they served not themselves, but you, in these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

 

[timothyu]

The core of the New Testament Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Lord Jesus on the third day, Jesus - the only begotten Son of God

That is the core of the later gentile religion. Yes that happened but it was only part of what would lead up to Jesus' Gospel and was in His Gospel. Jesus was very clear His Gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom, the return of God to dwell among mankind. He mentions it about 70 times. Acts records it was taught by Paul also.

Luke 16: 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[setst777]

That is the core of the later gentile religion. Yes that happened but it was only part of what would lead up to Jesus' Gospel and was in His Gospel. Jesus was very clear His Gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom, the return of God to dwell among mankind. He mentions it about 70 times. Acts records it was taught by Paul also.

Luke 16: 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Agreed. You are doing a very good job on this board of upholding the Truth of God's Word to those who's minds are darkened.

I was pointing out, however, that the Good News of the Gospel is about the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, which was not made known in previous generations.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Ephesians 3:4-6 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB)
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently. They prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that they served not themselves, but you, in these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Good News to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Blessings

 

[timothyu]

I was pointing out, however, that the Good News of the Gospel is about the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, which was not made known in previous generations.

It is interesting how little is being said within Christianity that the ten tribes driven from Israel (that Jesus spoke of) are starting to make their way home, a must before the Messiah returns. The new Israel itself has already helped in the return of two of the brother nations of the House of Israel.. But sadly most Christians are more concerned about saving their own necks than look at the big picture.

 

[setst777]

It is interesting how little is being said within Christianity that the ten tribes driven from Israel are starting to make their way home, a must before the Messiah returns. Israel itself has already helped in the return of two of the brother nations. But sadly most Christians are more concerned about saving their own necks than look at the big picture.

Yes, saving their own necks, even if it means denying the very Scriptures which can save them so they can hold onto their false man-made doctrines. In essence, they have already lost their reward.

 

[timothyu]

In essence, they have already lost their reward.

Well it's not like they haven't heard about the blind leading the blind. If a church can teach their foundation before the people have a chance to study Jesus Himself, they often miss out on the subtle changes being made. The Adversary doesn't mind if they teach Jesus died and was resurrected, but it in no way wants them to look forward to God dwelling here among us. That would put him out of a job. so subtle twists are made to distract from that and everyone is happy to go see grandma in Heaven instead.

 

[Guojing]

Which Gospel are you referring to?

Abraham believed what God told him, and acted accordingly. The faith of Abraham to God, and what God told him, was accounted to him as righteousness.

We are to have the same kind of faith in God as Abraham had. Even so, what God revealed to Abraham was the Gospel (Good News) to him, but was not the same Good News that Christians possess, and by which we are saved, in the New Covenant.

1 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB)
10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently. They prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that they served not themselves, but you, in these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Yes, a lot of people seems to have difficulty not anticipating revelation when it comes to the question of "What was the gospel preached to Abraham"?

They misapplied Galatians 3:6 and somehow throw Genesis 15:5 out of the window, claiming that Abraham was also preached that Christ would die for his sins and rose again on the 3rd day, which is not scriptural.

 

[Guojing]

That is the core of the later gentile religion. Yes that happened but it was only part of what would lead up to Jesus' Gospel and was in His Gospel. Jesus was very clear His Gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom, the return of God to dwell among mankind. He mentions it about 70 times. Acts records it was taught by Paul also.

Luke 16: 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The gospel to Israel was always about the good news of the Kingdom, this was foretold in 2 Samuel 7.

But we gentiles were excluded from that gospel (Ephesians 2:11-12)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I get this picture, it's like these people get told "God Loves you, and sent His son to die for you"

And they're all happy and receive their salvation with Joy.

And then these other people whisper in their ears, God only loves you if you do what I say.

It kind of reminds me of the garden when the snake says "Did God really say that?"

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So since the righteous live by faith, it is important that we surpass the self righteousness of the pharisees if we want to enter into the kingdom.

Even if you have been born again, by being merciless to your fellow servants, you can be placed in a prison environment by God as the parable suggests.

Verses such as the OP are double edged, they cut both ways.

The speaker tends to point one finger, but the three fingers pointing back tend to impale them.

So judging with mercy is important as James has said.

 

[timothyu]

But we gentiles were excluded from that gospel

We gentiles were excluded from everything at one time. But no more and what i said about the Adversary and what Christianity fails to teach about God returning to live among man still holds true, be it Jew or Gentile.

 

[Guojing]

We gentiles were excluded from everything at one time. But no more and what i said about the Adversary and what Christianity fails to teach about God returning to live among man still holds true, be it Jew or Gentile.

Yes, Christ himself saved Paul and made him our apostle (Romans 11:13). For the first time since Genesis 12, we gentiles have God speaking to us

 

[Hammster]

I don't understand, how do you understand Genesis 15:5?

What do you think God was saying to Abraham there? Can you read the Bible literally without trying to anticipate revelation?

Is that the gospel that you proclaim to unbelievers?

 

[Guojing]

Is that the gospel that you proclaim to unbelievers?

No, that good news was directed to Abraham only.