"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[Bible Highlighter]

So Christ died in vain for those who did not choose to believe in Him.

No. It was not in vain. They did have a chance in being saved, but they refused it. It simply means that folks like Hitler cannot say to the Lord Jesus Christ that he could not help but to do the evil he did because his sins were never paid for to begin with. Hitler will not be able to use that as an excuse as to why he rejected Jesus Christ in his life.

Synergism is God cooperating with the works of man to achieve salvation. Thus, you are saved by works. You have something to boast of. Thanks for playing.

Sorry, you are the one who is not playing. You did not address any of the verses I put forth to you on how Sanctification of the Spirit to live holy is a part of salvation after we are saved by God's grace. You did not address Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and Galatians 5:2, etc.

So even more works. How do you even know you've done enough to be saved? You don't even know for sure which stage you're in.

What a trainwreck.

Matthew 25:21 says that the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter into the joy of their Lord.

 

[setst777]

Agreed, but it's not a work. We're saved by Grace through faith, but even that faith is not of ourselves. It's all a gift of God. Not works. Lest anyone should boast.

The Scriptures teach throughout that the gift of God is salvation and righteousness.

Romans 6:23 (WEB)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We only receive the gift of righteousness by faith

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV) 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

The free gift of salvation is also received by faith (John 3:16).

Notice that in Romans 4:4-5 teaches that we receive God’s Gift (being accredited righteousness) only by Faith (“their faith”). Faith is not part of the “gift;” rather, we receive the “gift” by faith.

“Romans 5:17” is another example showing that righteousness is the gift. And as “Romans 4:4-5” (previously quoted) teaches, we only receive that gift of righteousness by faith. So, Faith itself is not the gift. The gift is God’s grace that we receive by faith.

The “Gift of God” is God graciously imputing His righteousness to those who believe in Jesus (a belief that the Gospel itself defines in the NT Scripture just as we have seen, and is represented in Baptism).

Romans 3:22-24 (NIV)
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

No Scripture states or teaches that faith onto salvation is a gift of God. Some ‘scholars’ object, citing “1 Corinthians 12:9” and “Romans 12:3-8.”

Citing “1 Corinthians 12:9” as proof that saving faith is a gift of God is a good example of taking verses out of context and supplying one’s own meaning. “1 Corinthians 12” refers to the gifts of the Spirit within the body of Christ – to those already saved.

One of the many Spiritual gifts Paul lists in 1 Corinthians 12 is “faith,” which is given to some in the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:9).

1 Corinthians 12:9 (KJV)
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit

If this Spiritual gift of “faith” is given so one can be saved, then does this mean that all others in the body of Christ who did not receive the gift of faith were saved without faith? No. Paul is discussing Spiritual gifts for those already saved.

Similar to 1 Corinthians 12, we see also that Romans 12:3-8 is also teaching about the Spiritual Gifts and the faith to carry out specific gifts in the body of Christ. A measure of faith unique to carry out specific Spiritual gifts is required.

So as we view Ephesians 2:8-10, we see that the gift is referring to the grace of salvation that we receive by faith. This faith is not a work. God paid the penalty for our sins, so that all who believe may receive the gift of salvation.

Blessings

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Agreed, but it's not a work. We're saved by Grace through faith, but even that faith is not of ourselves. It's all a gift of God. Not works. Lest anyone should boast.

Hebrews 11:6 says that without faith it is impossible to please Him (God). This does not sound consistent with God gifting faith to people. For if God wanted to be pleased, he would just give faith to everyone. Why would God want to be upset if He can simply change things the way He likes it? Even Jesus (who is GOD) marveled at the Centurion's great faith. Was Jesus marveling at what the Father does? No. Jesus is one with the Father. So Jesus was marveling at the Centurion's faith that comes from the Centurion (See: Matthew 8:5-13 with a special focus on verse 10).

 

[Paulomycin]

No. It was not in vain. They did have a chance in being saved, but they refused it.

Then Christ died in vain for those individuals.

Sorry, you are the one who is not playing. You did not address any of the verses I put forth to you on how Sanctification of the Spirit to live holy is a part of salvation after we are saved by God's grace. You did not address Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and Galatians 5:2, etc.

Because they're all under the forced eisegetical assumption of synergism.

Matthew 25:21 says that the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter into the joy of their Lord.

You still don't know how much that is to earn salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So Christ died in vain for those who did not choose to believe in Him.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 says: “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

There is no MIGHT be saved in Calvinism. Yet, that is what it says in my Bible. This verse also says that those who perish are perishing because they received not the love of the truth (and not because God did not zap them to be saved by some Calvinistic Election).

 

[Paulomycin]

1 Thessalonians 1:10 says: “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

1 Thessalonians 1:10

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

^ You're not even citing scripture accurately.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then Christ died in vain for those individuals.

Not if they had a chance to accept Jesus and they simply refused it of their own free will.

Anyways, 2 Peter 2:1 says, “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”

Because they're all under the forced eisegetical assumption of synergism.

Amos 3:3 says, “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?”

Deuteronomy 30:19 says, “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”

You still don't know how much that is to earn salvation.

My Bible says to be faithful over a few things. This does not mean an over excess of being fruitful to the point of not getting any sleep or eating, etc. If we are being fruitful for the Lord, and obeying Him, then we are abiding according to the faith and this kind of faith is able to access the saving grace of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Thessalonians 1:10

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

^ You're not even citing scripture accurately.

Yes, I know the verse. It was an honest typo. 2 Thessalonians 2:10.
Again, that does not change the content of what is said in the verse, though. So how do you skate around it?

 

[Paulomycin]

Not if they had a chance to accept Jesus and they simply refused it of their own free will.

If Christ died for them and they refuse, then Christ died in vain. You can't get around that.

Anyways, 2 Peter 2:1 says, “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”

Right. Because you claim your free will does the buying. That's clearly not the Lord buying them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If Christ died for them and they refuse, then Christ died in vain. You can't get around that.

Christ did not die in vain because He was able to save others. It was not in vain for the Lord to die for those who reject Him because there was a chance that they could be saved. Again, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 talks about how those who perish MIGHT be saved because they refused to receive the love of the truth. You cannot get around that unless you ignore it or alter such a verse.

Right. Because you claim your free will does the buying. That's clearly not the Lord buying them.

So you are saying that 2 Peter 2:1 is not in reference to the Lord buying them? It says right in the verse that these false teachers deny the Lord who bought them. That is what it says. Not sure how you can distort this verse to make it say something different.

 

[setst777]

Then Christ died in vain for those individuals.

According to God's sovereign plan, God’s grace is offered to all through the Gospel (John 3:16), so that whosoever believes may be saved.

• The ransom was paid for all (1 Timothy 2:6),
• God desires all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4),
• and to have mercy on all (Romans 11:32).

However, a person appropriates that grace, mercy, and ransom to himself by faith (John 3:16). That is the Gospel Covenant.

God will not believe for any of us, rather, God invites or calls all people without partiality or favoritism (Jew and Gentile) to the Wedding Feast (Matthew 22:1-14), a parable that represents God’s call of salvation to all people.

Many will resist or refuse (Matthew 22:1-5; John 3:18) the invitation, and others that do accept the invitation will attempt to enter without true repentance and faith (Matthew 22:11-12).

Nevertheless the call of the Gospel goes out to all people, and all were invited without partiality on God’s part, for God desires to save all, and to have mercy on all.

Those who accept the invitation with true repentance and faith are the ones that show they really love God (John 15:10). To these, God foreknew and elected to save, inviting and calling them through the Gospel.

Blessings

 

[Paulomycin]

Yes, I know the verse. It was an honest typo. 2 Thessalonians 2:10.

Wow. That was some typo. lol.

Again, that does not change the content of what is said in the verse, though. So how do you skate around it?

You're claiming God gambles, throws dice, and doesn't know the outcome. I notice you also lopped-off verse 11.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes, but Romans 10:9 alone is not the sum of God's thoughts, this one verse is not all the counsel of God.

It sounds like a pretty concise summary to me.

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord ....".
This was written at a time when Roman emperors were considered to be gods, and "Caesar is Lord" was a common cry, or declaration. For Christians to stand boldly and declare "Jesus is Lord", may have resulted in imprisonment or cost them their lives; you have to be really convinced about your faith if you are going to stake your life upon it. And the Lordship of Christ means that loyalty to him, obedience to God and doing his will comes first. I would have thought that if you were going to be loyal to someone, maybe at the cost of your life, you would want to be really certain of who they were and that they were worth dying for.
"And believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead" ...
Paul started this letter by saying that Jesus was declared, with power, to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead, Romans 1:4. The resurrection proved that Jesus was who he said that he was. If he had been, as the Jews thought, a blasphemer, a false Messiah and a miracle worker who cast out demons by the power of the devil, Mark 3:22, God would have left him in the tomb - why bring a dead, deluded, blaspheming fraud back to life again?
But Jesus was the Son of God and Messiah. His words that he was the Good Shepherd who lay down his life for the sheep, John 10:11, that he had come to give his life as a ransom for many, Mark 10:45, that his blood was being shed for the forgiveness of sin, Matthew 26:28, that he was the vine, the resurrection and the life, the only way to the Father - and in fact everything he taught, was true. The resurrection proved it.

So those 2 statements might seem to be only part of the Gospel, but in fact they encapsulate a good deal of it.

Romans 10:9 does not specifically mention baptism but neither does it specifically mention grace or the blood of Christ or repentance but that does not eliminate these things being necessary in becoming saved.

No, but believing in Jesus does not just mean assenting to the fact that he existed. It means accepting who he was, and everything he taught and did. That includes his claims about being God, about being the only way to the Father, the giver of eternal life, the Truth and that he was giving his life for others.

If repentance is essential to salvation, one must concede that such teaching must come from some passage other than Romans 10.

If a person accepts Jesus and believes in him, they accept what he taught - and he taught repentance and that he could give eternal life.

To be continued - maybe.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Wow. That was some typo. lol.

Yes, I thought it was a number 1 in two places instead of the number 2 in two places. So you never misquoted a verse reference ever before? Again, you are still not addressing the content of this verse that refutes your belief. It says that those who perish MIGHT be saved because they receive not the love of the truth. You just cannot read this verse plainly and accept it for what it says. Your teaching from Calvinism will not allow you to believe this verse.

You're claiming God gambles, throws dice, and doesn't know the outcome. I notice you also lopped-off verse 11.

Nowhere did I say I believe in Open Theism or that God does not know the future. That is a false assumption that you are throwing out there in what I believe. Oh, and verse 11 does not change what verse 10 says. You have to deal with it.

 

[Paulomycin]

Christ did not die in vain because He was able to save others.

Yet, according to your soteriology, Jesus did die in vain for those who rejected Him.

It was not in vain for the Lord to die for those who reject Him because there was a chance that they could be saved.

Which failed. Therefore, you're saying God's gamble failed.

Again, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 talks about how those who perish MIGHT be saved because they refused to receive the love of the truth. You cannot get around that unless you ignore it or alter such a verse.

You omitted verse 11, not me.

So you are saying that 2 Peter 2:1 is not in reference to the Lord buying them? It says right in the verse that these false teachers deny the Lord who bought them. That is what it says. Not sure how you can distort this verse to make it say something different.

I am saying that you deny the Lord bought them. If salvation is earned by any works, then you paid the price yourself. If even a little bit, then you're denying the Lord bought you even a little bit.

 

[Paulomycin]

Nowhere did I say I believe in Open Theism or that God does not know the future.

If it's contingent to our final executive decision alone, then you are implying that God is not omniscient and therefore not God. This isn't limited to Open Theism.

Oh, and verse 11 does not change what verse 10 says. You have to deal with it.

Verse 10 does not say, "because they did not receive the love of the truth, in-order that they might be saved." It doesn't explain in that verse why they didn't receive. They didn't receive the love of the truth because they were dead in sin and trespasses. Again, simple eisegesis gets you everywhere you already want to go.

 

[Paulomycin]

Oh, and verse 11 does not change what verse 10 says. You have to deal with it.

"Might" does not mean you can rush to the insane conclusion that God gambles with people's random decisions.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yet, according to your soteriology, Jesus did die in vain for those who rejected Him.

As I said. There was a chance or possiblity for them to be saved. So it was not in vain. A person cannot say to the Lord that there was no chance for them because He did not die for their sins. But you are free to tell the Lord these words to His face if you like to one day. I am sure He will not be amused.

Which failed. Therefore, you're saying God's gamble failed.

God knows the future with pin point precision. So you are barking up the wrong tree.
I am not an Open Theist.

You omitted verse 11, not me.

Again, you are skating around verse 10, and not explaining it. You bring up verse 11 as if it magically undoes verse 10 in what it says. Anyone can throw verse numbers around but it is up to you to explain what they mean or plainly say.

I am saying that you deny the Lord bought them. If salvation is earned by any works, then you paid the price yourself. If even a little bit, then you're denying the Lord bought you even a little bit.

Not sure how this line of reasoning helps you in making it about what I believe the Scriptures to say. Your assertion is not what 2 Peter 2:1 says. The false teachers deny the Lord had bought them. Why would the Lord buy false teachers?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"Might" does not mean you can rush to the insane conclusion that God gambles with people's random decisions.

It says MIGHT be saved. There is no MIGHT be saved in Calvinism. Hence, why you are refusing to explain this verse.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If it's contingent to our final executive decision alone, then you are implying that God is not omniscient and therefore not God. This isn't limited to Open Theism.

Nowhere did I imply that God is not Omniscient and that He does not know things. So again, you just falsely assumed this is what I believe (When I did not clearly say that).

Verse 10 does not say, "because they did not receive the love of the truth, in-order that they might be saved." It doesn't explain in that verse why they didn't receive. They didn't receive the love of the truth because they were dead in sin and trespasses. Again, simple eisegesis gets you everywhere you already want to go.

It says,
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

#1. Those who are deceived in doing unrighteousness are perishing because...
#2. they received not the love of the truth...
#3. that they MIGHT be saved.

Calvinism agrees with #1, but it does not agree with #2, and #3.