Unbelievers Are Condemned

[Mr. M]

This isn't a foolish and ignorant dispute, it's a question of whether ppl are willing to believe that Jesus is a success or failure. Either he saves the world or he does not. It's about the Christian faith, which so many profess to have, but only when it comes to the certitude that they themselves are being saved.

Pride is the sin of the world and of Christians who would dare to double-guess Jesus on who will or won't be saved. As though we can earn salvation. Leaven of the Pharisees.

He has certainly reconciled the World.
2 Corinthians 5:
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their
trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us:
we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.
The Father is pleading and imploring to the world through us, on behalf of
Christ to be reconciled. If that is a finished work, then we have no commission as believers.
Christ said this:
Mark 16:
15 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe
will be condemned.
That is on topic for the thread, not the rehabilitation of fallen angels. Your
speculations on that are unscriptural and off topic.

 

[Mr. M]

That's the dualist pagan heresy that underlies the false doctrine. God IS love, that is His essence. His anger is but for a moment. And His anger is always righteous. His ways are higher, not lower. He can't be more petty, vindictive and monstrous than us. What a thought!

I do not like to consider it. The seven bowls of wrath poured out on the wicked has always
troubled me, but it is what it is. If it lasts but a moment, that is mercy.

 

[Mr. M]

That's the dualist pagan heresy that underlies the false doctrine. God IS love, that is His essence. His anger is but for a moment. And His anger is always righteous. His ways are higher, not lower. He can't be more petty, vindictive and monstrous than us. What a thought!

God always has and always will hate these things, until they are destroyed.
His love cannot tolerate these manifestations of wickedness.
His holiness destroys them in their essence.
Thus, man is forewarned not to embody them.
Proverbs 6:
16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

he who does not believe
will be condemned.

No, he is already condemned to sin and death. Jesus comes to save him from that fate. Salvation requires belief yes, and the Lake of Fire baptises the sinner in God's essence, destroying sin and death. The recalcitrant reprobate must be thrown in, because he is so stubborn in his disbelief. 'I refuse to accept Jesus saves all mankind,' he will insist. Tormented will he be in the fire as long as he's hell-bent on clinging to false notions like that which give God no glory.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

God always has and always will hate these things. His love cannot tolerate these manifestations
of wickedness. His holiness destroys them in their essence. Thus, man is forewarned not to
embody them.
Proverbs 6:
16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.

Correct, so He delivers the sinner anew by purifying him of those sins. You just keep dancing away from the edge there James. Jesus reveals that God doesn't hate the leper, He doesn't even hate the Pharisee, He's going to cure them of the things He does hate - sin, death and the spiritual forces of evil.

 

[Mr. M]

Correct, so He delivers the sinner anew by purifying him of those sins. You just keep dancing away from the edge there James. Jesus reveals that God doesn't hate the leper, He doesn't even hate the Pharisee, He's going to cure them of the things He does hate - sin, death and the spiritual forces of evil.

I can't dance. I am simply not going to stop warning and exhorting both the believer and the
unbeliever that there is a "just recompense of reward". How you live your life matters eternally.
If wicked men are rehabilitated, it is that they may live outside the gates in the shadows, and
know that their life could have earned them great rewards. Any wonder that there will be weeping
and gnashing of teeth?
The teaching of rewards is completely scriptural and not "earning salvation".
"Not every star has the same glory", and "if the light in you is darkness,
how great is that darkness".

Revelation 22:
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters,
and whoever loves and practices a lie.

The reward of the wicked =/= the reward of the righteous.
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward.

2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but
we may receive a full reward.

 

[Mr. M]

No, he is already condemned to sin and death. Jesus comes to save him from that fate. Salvation requires belief yes, and the Lake of Fire baptises the sinner in God's essence, destroying sin and death. The recalcitrant reprobate must be thrown in, because he is so stubborn in his disbelief. 'I refuse to accept Jesus saves all mankind,' he will insist. Tormented will he be in the fire as long as he's hell-bent on clinging to false notions like that which give God no glory.

You seem very committed to teaching a doctrine of rehabilitation of the wicked. I would suggest to you
that there is no mandate for the believer to bring that message to the world. There is no anointing to
preach a Gospel that no man has been commissioned to present to the world. You are teaching your
understanding of the age to come. This thread, based on John 3, is the Gospel to the living, in the
world now, and that is a reminder and exhortation to the believer, and a pleading of reconciliation
to the unbeliever. That is the dance.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Obviously that would mean those who personally rejected God in favor of their own desires, not those who never had the opportunity to meet Him.

 

[Mr. M]

Obviously that would mean those who personally rejected God in favor of their own desires, not those who never had the opportunity to meet Him.

As to the scenario that you address, I have no doubt that Christ alone will handle that
with righteous judgment.

 

[Saint Steven]

Any individual decision to believe or disbelieve makes it one or the other,
until they come to their senses. Paul is not splitting hairs here, he is speaking Truth.
2 Timothy 2:
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them
repentance, so that they may know the truth,
26 and they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been
taken captive by him to do his will.

Bible versus Bible. Who wins? Who loses?

 

[East of Eden]

Ultimately, ALL will do the will the Father.

This is our faith in the total victory of Christ and the consummation of the great promises of God. Every nation blessed, every tongue confessing, every lost sheep retrieved, every prisoner released, wolf and lamb reconciled.

The work of Calvary is not only for the benefit of a remnant.

The trickle of water that issues from the temple swells into a mighty river that cascades into the Dead Sea, giving life to all.

Every knee will bow, but as Jesus said, broad is the road to destruction and narrow the road to life, few will find it. He compared His return to the days of Noah, when people were largely unprepared.

 

[East of Eden]

Correct, so He delivers the sinner anew by purifying him of those sins. You just keep dancing away from the edge there James. Jesus reveals that God doesn't hate the leper, He doesn't even hate the Pharisee, He's going to cure them of the things He does hate - sin, death and the spiritual forces of evil.

Really, against their will? What if they want to continue in their rebellion? What about the everlasting fire?

 

[Saint Steven]

Every knee will bow, but as Jesus said, broad is the road to destruction and narrow the road to life, few will find it. He compared His return to the days of Noah, when people were largely unprepared.

Here's what I know about that.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

 

[Mr. M]

Bible versus Bible. Who wins? Who loses?

Romans 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk
according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Would you further clarify that someone must be "In Christ" to not be under condemnation, even
if they claim to believe in Him, by sliding back into rebellious behavior?
I base this on the need to accept correction from the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that
we may not be condemned with the world.

 

[Saint Steven]

Really, against their will? What if they want to continue in their rebellion? What about the everlasting fire?

Imagine if you were standing on the edge of the Lake of Fire. Your choice was to go for a swim until you repent, or to just repent and forgo the swim. What would you do?

 

[Saint Steven]

Romans 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk
according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Would you further clarify that someone must be "In Christ" to not be under condemnation, even
if they claim to believe in Him, by sliding back into rebellious behavior?
I base this on the need to accept correction from the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that
we may not be condemned with the world.

Once again, you are proving my point. Thanks.

Romans 5:18 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

 

[Mr. M]

Once again, you are proving my point. Thanks.

And what point is that, that ALL are in Christ, whether they believe the Gospel are not?

 

[Saint Steven]

And what point is that, that ALL are in Christ, whether they believe the Gospel are not?

The very last line of your post declares that it is THE WORLD that is condemned. Just as I have said.

Minister Monardo said: ↑
Romans 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk
according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Would you further clarify that someone must be "In Christ" to not be under condemnation, even
if they claim to believe in Him, by sliding back into rebellious behavior?
I base this on the need to accept correction from the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that
we may not be condemned with the world.

 

[Mr. M]

The very last line of your post declares that it is THE WORLD that is condemned. Just as I have said.

Minister Monardo said: ↑
Romans 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk
according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Would you further clarify that someone must be "In Christ" to not be under condemnation, even
if they claim to believe in Him, by sliding back into rebellious behavior?
I base this on the need to accept correction from the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that
we may not be condemned with the world.

You are saying that because Christ died, only the world is condemned, and not the people.

 

[Mr. M]

Imagine if you were standing on the edge of the Lake of Fire. Your choice was to go for a swim until you repent, or to just repent and forgo the swim. What would you do?

I would rather read about this point of decision in the Bible. When and where does this moment
of Truth take place?