For many are called, but few are chosen!

sawdust

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“While He (Jesus) was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the signs He was doing and believed in His name. But Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, for He knew them all. He did not need any testimony about man, for He knew what was in a man.” John 2:23-25 Jesus said, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to Me will never hunger, and whoever believes in Me will never thirst. But as I stated, you have seen Me and still you do not believe.” John 6:35-36

However, just after these things, many who believed claimed that this teaching was too hard and they stopped following Him. Jesus explained, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him. From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him.” John 6:65-66 It is true that many who believe in Jesus’ name will end up walking away and no longer follow Christ once their faith is tested or they are pressed to separate themselves from the things of this world (see the Parable of the Sower: Matthew 13:1-13 & 13:18-23).

What do you believe Jesus was telling us when He said, “For many are called, but few are chosen?” Matthew 22:14

"Hell is for wimps, it takes guts to face the truth!"

That sums it up for me as to what Jesus was saying. :)
 
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Nathan@work

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Whether you're connecting it with what preceded in Matthew 21, or what follows in 23 it remains connected with the removal of the kingdom from the Jews. The discourses prior to the passion are all about the prophetic nature of the removal of the kingdom, and that it is the Jews own disobedience that creates it which is demonstrated in both the parables and with the increasing treachery of his opponents.
I agree, but my point is that it very much does deal with soteriology.

In the previous chapter He also deals with salvation. That’s all I was trying to say.
 
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Fervent

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I agree, but my point is that it very much does deal with soteriology.

In the previous chapter He also deals with salvation. That’s all I was trying to say.
When I said it's not soteriological I didn't mean it has nothing to do with salvation, but that it's not a matter of teaching people how to get saved or how salvation works. My point is specifically that it's inappropriate to use to support a Calvinist view of salvation in the manner it often is since doing so involves ignoring the entire point of the parable, the preceding parables, and the discourse that follows that marks it primarily as prophetic/judgment oriented and purely focusing on a dissection of the words as dogmatic.
 
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Nathan@work

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When I said it's not soteriological I didn't mean it has nothing to do with salvation, but that it's not a matter of teaching people how to get saved or how salvation works. My point is specifically that it's inappropriate to use to support a Calvinist view of salvation in the manner it often is since doing so involves ignoring the entire point of the parable, the preceding parables, and the discourse that follows that marks it primarily as prophetic/judgment oriented and purely focusing on a dissection of the words as dogmatic.
I agree, I think it’s inappropriate to use it for a Calvinist view also. :)

I do think it can be used to teach how Salvation works. It parallels other teaching on Salvation.

Romans 9 is one.

I can elaborate more tomorrow, it is a bit difficult to do on my phone tonight. :)
 
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Fervent

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I agree, I think it’s inappropriate to use it for a Calvinist view also. :)

I do think it can be used to teach how Salvation works. It parallels other teaching on Salvation.

Romans 9 is one.

I can elaborate more tomorrow, it is a bit difficult to do on my phone tonight. :)
Romans 9 again is not a teaching on how salvation works yet often is used as if it is. Both of which require suspending contextual interpretation and treating the Bible as if its intent is purely didactic theology, which it's not. Romans is a pastoral letter and Matthew is an apologetic narrative, neither of which primarily aim to present a dogmatic theology and treating them as dogmatic texts introduces a foreign element to the interpretation.
 
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Nathan@work

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Romans 9 again is not a teaching on how salvation works yet often is used as if it is. Both of which require suspending contextual interpretation and treating the Bible as if its intent is purely didactic theology, which it's not. Romans is a pastoral letter and Matthew is an apologetic narrative, neither of which primarily aim to present a dogmatic theology and treating them as dogmatic texts introduces a foreign element to the interpretation.

If you cannot learn about Salvation reading Romans 9 then I would love to know what you believe Salvation is?

I never said it was complete, alone, in being able to teach. I merely said the passage this thread is based on, and the preceding ones, parallel Romans 9.
 
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Fervent

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If you cannot learn about Salvation reading Romans 9 then I would love to know what you believe Salvation is?

I never said it was complete, alone, in being able to teach. I merely said the passage this thread is based on, and the preceding ones, parallel Romans 9.
It's not a matter of simply being incomplete, but that the purpose of the passages in question is not to teach dogmatics and developing dogmatics based on them is somewhat inappropriate. Romans 9 is not discussing the ins-and-outs of salvation, it is giving a treatment for how God remains just in replacing Israel and how it is not a betrayal of His promises to them. Dogmatic treatment about doctrines of salvation is foreign to the subject matter at hand and requires infusing a philsophic bent to the Scriptural revelation.
 
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Nathan@work

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It's not a matter of simply being incomplete, but that the purpose of the passages in question is not to teach dogmatics and developing dogmatics based on them is somewhat inappropriate. Romans 9 is not discussing the ins-and-outs of salvation, it is giving a treatment for how God remains just in replacing Israel and how it is not a betrayal of His promises to them. Dogmatic treatment about doctrines of salvation is foreign to the subject matter at hand and requires infusing a philsophic bent to the Scriptural revelation.
Can you learn anything about salvation from reading Romans 9?
 
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Fervent

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Can you learn anything about salvation from reading Romans 9?
Depends what you mean, if you mean can we create doctrine regarding salvation than not really. It's an apologetic passage and any theology that is taken from it must bear that in mind since the function of the apologetic may require highlighting a particular aspect of a theological tension without giving it complete weight.
 
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Nathan@work

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Depends what you mean, if you mean can we create doctrine regarding salvation than not really. It's an apologetic passage and any theology that is taken from it must bear that in mind since the function of the apologetic may require highlighting a particular aspect of a theological tension without giving it complete weight.
I mean, can you learn?

I can learn about Salvation. Can you?

Would you like to share what you know about Salvation?

Maybe we can see if any of it can be found there. :)
 
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Fervent

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I mean can you learn.

I can learn about Salvation. Can you?

Would you like to share what you know about Salvation?

Maybe we can see if any of it can be found there. :)
Again, what are you looking for in learning? Dogmatic statements about the order of salvation? A systematic treatment of sotoriology? Because looking to Romans 9 for that is an inappropriate use of the text bound to introduce foreign beliefs resulting in proof texting to justify prior beliefs rather than breaking belief on Scripture.
 
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Nathan@work

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Again, what are you looking for in learning? Dogmatic statements about the order of salvation? A systematic treatment of sotoriology? Because looking to Romans 9 for that is an inappropriate use of the text bound to introduce foreign beliefs resulting in proof texting to justify prior beliefs rather than breaking belief on Scripture.
Ok, what is your definition of “learn”?
 
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