Cruel to be kind? Or possessed by devils?

[Abide with me.]

Do you think God let's you stumble and fall endlessly until you come to him from your own free will? Even if that means you might never learn in this lifetime? And your life is like groundhog day only a 100 times more painful, and disappointing.

Or do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

I asked our local minister this question, she didn't believe in evil spirits and hell but the Bible is full of the references to this.
She said that hell was the absence of God, is the church soft soaping us?

 

[Basil the Great]

Many Christians believe that Hell is the absence of God, but others disagree. As far as demons or the Devil himself, most experts believe that true demonic possession is very rare, though demonic oppression is perhaps somewhat more common. I am inclined to probably side with your minister, in the sense that I think it unlikely that your troubles our caused by demons/evil spirits. Life is full of trials and tribulations. None of us know why God permits all of us to be tested as we are, but such is the case.

I like to tell the story of a television interview that I saw a few years ago with an ex-policeman who became a Catholic priest. He said that life is a test, a test to determine where we will go in the afterlife and what will happen to us there. I believe that his statement describes the purpose of life as well as any I have heard. Let us hope that most of us here at CF pass the test.

 

[Billy93]

Tbh, I’m not really sure what I think as far as an answer to your question. I worry daily now that God has turned His back on me and I’m no longer welcome to repent - because I spent years not caring about my sins. Then again, maybe He allowed me to get in such a rut because that’s what it took for me to start getting serious and realizing I was empty without Him? Who knows.

But I would find a different church if that’s what your minister believes. Evil spirits and hell are quite real according to the Bible...

 

[Abide with me.]

Many Christians believe that Hell is the absence of God, but others disagree. As far as demons or the Devil himself, most experts believe that true demonic possession is very rare, though demonic oppression is perhaps somewhat more common. I am inclined to probably side with your minister, in the sense that I think it unlikely that your troubles our caused by demons/evil spirits. Life is full of trials and tribulations. None of us know why God permits all of us to be tested as we are, but such is the case.

I like to tell the story of a television interview that I saw a few years ago with an ex-policeman who became a Catholic priest. He said that life is a test, a test to determine where we will go in the afterlife and what will happen to us there. I believe that his statement describes the purpose of life as well as any I have heard. Let us hope that most of us here at CF pass the test.

I guess what you mean by demonic oppression, is that they are around is but not in us? So that we do not commit bad or evil acts ourselves, but they ruin everything and steal our happiness?
Yes, we all go through trials from time to time, but what if your whole life is one trial after another for decades on end no matter how good and kind we try to be, and there seems no obvious explaination for breathtaking bad luck?
I'll never know if it was God testing me till I got it right, but in answer to Billy, I'm 17 years into being released from hell on earth and entered a kind of paradise after I turned in ernest to God, I never saw myself as a sinner, but I was full of myself and put God out of my reach to be sure.

 

[longwait]

I asked our local minister this question, she didn't believe in evil spirits and hell but the Bible is full of the references to this.
She said that hell was the absence of God, is the church soft soaping us?

What kind of a minister is that, not believing in evil spirits and hell!

 

[Abide with me.]

I have just found the answer to this question in Deuteronomy 8.
God tests us to find out what is in our hearts, he wants us to follow him through difficulties, if we trust him he will repay us tenfold by leading us into a beautiful place.
But if we fail the test, = blame it on bad luck, or put our trust in our own abilities and old habits to overcome difficulties, he will keep repeating it till we pass the test, = put our faith in God.

God lead me through the desert for forty years! Till I finally got it, and he gave me fine houses and great success, but warns us not to take credit for all that we have, and fail to follow God's commandments, for he will surely destroy us.
Deuteronomy is the story of my life! And a profound revelation. Thank you so much God for guiding me to it!

 

[Tolworth John]

Or do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

Faith is a gift from God, he gives to those he chose before creation.

Those who do not have saving faith are as John 3:18 says, ' already condemned! '

May I suggest you check out the Christianity explored web site for a church in your area and that yo join it.

Your words, " asked a local minister! " Indicates yu do not belong to a church.
Pease find and join me.

 

[Abide with me.]

Faith is a gift from God, he gives to those he chose before creation.

Those who do not have saving faith are as John 3:18 says, ' already condemned! '

May I suggest you check out the Christianity explored web site for a church in your area and that yo join it.

Your words, " asked a local minister! " Indicates yu do not belong to a church.
Pease find and join me.

I do have faith in God, but I do not belong to a church yet because I have discovered some denominations have practices which are contradictory to the teachings of the Bible, whilst others seem to willfully mis interpret it.
I am therefore careful where to place my trust, and as a new Christian, I want to get the word from as close to the source as possible, ie.. the Bible, before carefully choosing which denominational church to go to if any.
It says in the Bible to pray quietly behind a closed door with sincerity and humility, and not to make an exhibition of your piety, which is good enough for me for the time being, and as we are in full lockdown here in the UK it is impossible for me to join a church anyway.
And whilst I'm about making my mind up, I hope you have no objection to my posting sincerely intended questions on here?

 

[Tolworth John]

I do have faith in God, but I do not belong to a church yet because I have discovered some denominations have practices which are contradictory to the teachings of the Bible, whilst others seem to willfully mis interpret it.
I am therefore careful where to place my trust, and as a new Christian, I want to get the word from as close to the source as possible, ie.. the Bible, before carefully choosing which denominational church to go to if any.
It says in the Bible to pray quietly behind a closed door with sincerity and humility, and not to make an exhibition of your piety, which is good enough for me for the time being, and as we are in full lockdown here in the UK it is impossible for me to join a church anyway.
And whilst I'm about making my mind up, I hope you have no objection to my posting sincerely intended questions on here?

I don't control what is posted here, so you are free to post what ever you want.

Yes here in the UK many churches have voluntarily remand close to protect the community.
That does not stop you looking at the christianityexplored web site for churches in your area or having done that from looking at those churches web sites or viewing there online services.

Just as you are not perfect, so churches are not perfect.

Find one that preaches and seeks to practise what it preaches. Which is why
I recommended the Christianity explored web site. It is for conservative Bible believing churches..


There are many issues like method of baptism, order and form of services, end times etc that are secondary issue.
Do the sermons make you think, do they bring you closer to Jesus, do they uphold he Bible while welcoming everyone?

 

[aiki]

Do you think God let's you stumble and fall endlessly until you come to him from your own free will? Even if that means you might never learn in this lifetime? And your life is like groundhog day only a 100 times more painful, and disappointing.

Or do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

I asked our local minister this question, she didn't believe in evil spirits and hell but the Bible is full of the references to this.
She said that hell was the absence of God, is the church soft soaping us?

You ain't getting the "straight goods" from your "minister."

Yes, God lets you make choices freely - which always entails letting you bear the consequences of those choices.

You only have this lifetime to turn to God in repentance from your sinful life without Him, trust in Christ as your Saviour and Lord, and become a "new creature in Christ." It'll be too late to do any of this on the other side of the grave.

God turns His back on no one. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. His only Son died for the World. But He is a gentleman; He will not force Himself upon those who don't want Him. And those who stubbornly separate themselves from Him now will find themselves forever separated from Him in the afterlife. He died to prevent this but will not impose upon any the way of escape He has made for all who would take it through His son, Jesus.

 

[SANTOSO]

Do you think God let's you stumble and fall endlessly until you come to him from your own free will? Even if that means you might never learn in this lifetime? And your life is like groundhog day only a 100 times more painful, and disappointing.

Or do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

I asked our local minister this question, she didn't believe in evil spirits and hell but the Bible is full of the references to this.
She said that hell was the absence of God, is the church soft soaping us?

Dear one,

If you have stumbled, it is because you have not believed. If you have believed, you will not stumble. So it is not God who cause you to stumble but you refused to believe. If you have believed and kept His commandment
to love one another, you will not stumble.

For this is what we have heard:
For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame." -1 Peter 2:6

So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone," -1 Peter 2:7

and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. -1 Peter 2:8

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. -1 Peter 2:9

If you repent, believe and do what the Lord commands — you will not stumble again.

You are asking : do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

This is what we have heard:
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." -John 8:12

Have you been following after Jesus ?

If you are looking to turn away from all evil
This is what we have heard:

By steadfast love and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for, and by the fear of the LORD one turns away from evil. -Proverbs 16:6

May God’s words enlighten you.
As we have heard:
The true light, which ENLIGHTENS everyone, was coming into the world.- John 1:9

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Do you think God let's you stumble and fall endlessly until you come to him from your own free will? Even if that means you might never learn in this lifetime? And your life is like groundhog day only a 100 times more painful, and disappointing.

Or do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

I asked our local minister this question, she didn't believe in evil spirits and hell but the Bible is full of the references to this.
She said that hell was the absence of God, is the church soft soaping us?

Does God let us fumble around until we come to Him by our own free will?

While I think only God can answer this directly and fully, it seems to me that C.S. Lewis has averred something to the effect that God does indeed let us "do it on our own" to some extent (i.e. in The Screwtape Letters).

We can 'choose' to remain the Prodigals and languish in the demonic mud, or we can get up out of the slime and head on back to the Father ...

 

[Abide with me.]

Does God let us fumble around until we come to Him by our own free will?

While I think only God can answer this directly and fully, it seems to me that C.S. Lewis has averred something to the effect that God does indeed let us "do it on our own" to some extent (i.e. in The Screwtape Letters).

We can 'choose' to remain the Prodigals and languish in the demonic mud, or we can get up out of the slime and head on back to the Father ...

Thank you,
C S Lewis has been quoted more times to me recently than at any other time in my life, so I bought a copy of 'mere Christianity' one of the best quotes in this for me is about free will..you probably know it, about a cow that can be neither very bad or very good etc then dog, child, man, genious, and a superhuman spirit can do good or evil most of all, in it he explains that God wants us to come to him of our own free will, at the risk that we won't, but it is more meaningful than creating creatures that are automatons who can do neither.
I did get out of the mud, with a little help, but I guess some people have to hit the rock bottom of hopelessness to see the light.

 

[Abide with me.]

I don't control what is posted here, so you are free to post what ever you want.

Yes here in the UK many churches have voluntarily remand close to protect the community.
That does not stop you looking at the christianityexplored web site for churches in your area or having done that from looking at those churches web sites or viewing there online services.

Just as you are not perfect, so churches are not perfect.

Find one that preaches and seeks to practise what it preaches. Which is why
I recommended the Christianity explored web site. It is for conservative Bible believing churches..


There are many issues like method of baptism, order and form of services, end times etc that are secondary issue.
Do the sermons make you think, do they bring you closer to Jesus, do they uphold he Bible while welcoming everyone?

The Bible is making me think, as I read for an hour every day I come across things that I don't understand, I then like to read a variety of theological interpretations online from Christian bible study sites to see if I can find a consensus of opinion, then I make notes, if I only got my opinions from one source, I might not be able to get good understanding.

I'm on the beginning of my Christian journey, and I doubt even the church would want to baptise me until I'm ready.

You mention finding a church that practices what it preaches, but I want a church to practice what the bible preaches, and I don't want to offend anyone, but I'm not going to go to a church that that practices shouting out gibberish to the mortification of their Children in the name of ' speaking in toungs,' nor will it go to a Catholic church who put the virgin Mary centre stage when the Bible teaches us not to worship false idols and worship no other God than God, however much the church might try to justify this, nor will I go to a church who declare political or activist ideology and partisanship, and to my disgust I have found churches like that near me.
What I love about C F, is that I get to talk to people from all denominations, and if I could find a bible discussion and study group like this near me in real life I would love to join to help me make my mind up, and if I find more out about a particular church I'm comfortable with, then I will look forwards to taking part.
But I will look up the website you suggest, as I am keenly seeking.

 

[Abide with me.]

I now believe I was oppressed by an evil spirit for the first 42 years of my life, through not turning to God and possibly trauma or a generational curse, there seems to be no other explanation for all my misfortunes at that time, I finally asked God to take my life and do what he wanted with it, and latterly I'm trying to put my gratitude into practice for the transformation he brought about, but......
I want to have a closer communion with God but I have reason to believe that a small part of that demonic spirit is still in me, I'm praying for deliverence, but I don't know if it's gone!

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Do you think God let's you stumble and fall endlessly until you come to him from your own free will? Even if that means you might never learn in this lifetime?

I believe God deals with each person as they require for their growth.
I think there are obstacles to spiritual growth though - I think these things will be slowly resolved in the next life.
Personally, I consider most talk about possession and oppression by evil spirits to be superstition. Perhaps overhangs from ancient fear religions that have gotten bound up in Christianity.

Or do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

No I do not think God turns His back on those who turn from Him.
I think us humans are low on the order of intelligence and spiritual growth. I assume we are like toddlers in the spirit world. I assume there are lots of different kinds of spiritual beings - who have intelligence and spiritual growth of a magnitude we cannot currently comprehend. They are under Jesus and they are always willing and ready to help us grow and learn.
I think mistakes and redemptions, suffering and joy, failure and triumph are all part of the eternal game. Over a long time, I think we learn to trust God more and more, until eventually there is no doubt in us any longer (I don't think we stop growing when we die, I think we realise we are at the beginning of a long journey to God).
In this context, I'd liken it to a parent abandoning their two year old at the supermarket, and for life, because of a tantrum. In God's eyes, it's likely small potatoes??

I asked our local minister this question, she didn't believe in evil spirits and hell but the Bible is full of the references to this. She said that hell was the absence of God, is the church soft soaping us?

Probably would seperate one ministers opinion from the church's official position.
Probably the local minister was doing her best to give you good advice.
I believe there was a rebellion in heaven of some sort. I believe it's under control. I also believe people are superstitious. I think this probably comes from being hunted by animals through lots of our evolutionary history - it's given us a "fear brain". I think we are spiritual beings that inhabit and animalistic biology.
Part of the game is to overcome our animalistic superstitions. Overcoming our animalistic nature is learning to get along with each other (God's will), worldwide.
If we don't, we will go to war and poverty (this'll be a departure from God's will and hell for everyone involved), if we do, we will have prosperity and love. There aren't any shortcuts or easy paths in our spiritual growth.
There will be hell until we have suffered so much that we choose either God's path or annihilation. That's not that I think God puts us in hell, it's more that God, by God's very nature, is the sole source of Love and Goodness in existence.
I'd prefer to learn early and thus keep the suffering to a minimum haha.

The above is just my opinion and speculations. I don't actually know for sure what's going on. I'll probably be surprised when I get to heaven??

 

[SANTOSO]

I now believe I was oppressed by an evil spirit for the first 42 years of my life, through not turning to God and possibly trauma or a generational curse, there seems to be no other explanation for all my misfortunes at that time, I finally asked God to take my life and do what he wanted with it, and latterly I'm trying to put my gratitude into practice for the transformation he brought about, but......
I want to have a closer communion with God but I have reason to believe that a small part of that demonic spirit is still in me, I'm praying for deliverence, but I don't know if it's gone!

Dear one,
I am delighted to know that you finally asked God to mold and use you. And you have responded well to God by being thankful for the transformation He brought about in you.

I understand you are still wary of demonic spirit that is still in you. Just submit yourself to God daily and resist the devil and its cohorts in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ and they will flee.

Dear one, continue to keep up with your prayer for deliverance. Eventually, you will
develop spiritual sensitivity and know that the evil spirits flee.

 

[Abide with me.]

I believe God deals with each person as they require for their growth.
I think there are obstacles to spiritual growth though - I think these things will be slowly resolved in the next life.
Personally, I consider most talk about possession and oppression by evil spirits to be superstition. Perhaps overhangs from ancient fear religions that have gotten bound up in Christianity.


No I do not think God turns His back on those who turn from Him.
I think us humans are low on the order of intelligence and spiritual growth. I assume we are like toddlers in the spirit world. I assume there are lots of different kinds of spiritual beings - who have intelligence and spiritual growth of a magnitude we cannot currently comprehend. They are under Jesus and they are always willing and ready to help us grow and learn.
I think mistakes and redemptions, suffering and joy, failure and triumph are all part of the eternal game. Over a long time, I think we learn to trust God more and more, until eventually there is no doubt in us any longer (I don't think we stop growing when we die, I think we realise we are at the beginning of a long journey to God).
In this context, I'd liken it to a parent abandoning their two year old at the supermarket, and for life, because of a tantrum. In God's eyes, it's likely small potatoes??


Probably would seperate one ministers opinion from the church's official position.
Probably the local minister was doing her best to give you good advice.
I believe there was a rebellion in heaven of some sort. I believe it's under control. I also believe people are superstitious. I think this probably comes from being hunted by animals through lots of our evolutionary history - it's given us a "fear brain". I think we are spiritual beings that inhabit and animalistic biology.
Part of the game is to overcome our animalistic superstitions. Overcoming our animalistic nature is learning to get along with each other (God's will), worldwide.
If we don't, we will go to war and poverty (this'll be a departure from God's will and hell for everyone involved), if we do, we will have prosperity and love. There aren't any shortcuts or easy paths in our spiritual growth.
There will be hell until we have suffered so much that we choose either God's path or annihilation. That's not that I think God puts us in hell, it's more that God, by God's very nature, is the sole source of Love and Goodness in existence.
I'd prefer to learn early and thus keep the suffering to a minimum haha.

The above is just my opinion and speculations. I don't actually know for sure what's going on. I'll probably be surprised when I get to heaven??

If I had heard myself talking about demonic oppression a few years ago I would think I had gone nuts, but there has never been an adequate explanation to the endless list of bad coincidence's I suffered before I turned to God, even now I occasionally have unnerving feelings, I pray a lot to be closer to God, and have a surprising amount of God instances now, I have a truly wonderful life that I am profoundly grateful for, but the older I get, the more clearly I can see the patterns of my life that have no obvious explanation.

 

[John Helpher]

Do you think God let's you stumble and fall endlessly until you come to him from your own free will? Even if that means you might never learn in this lifetime? And your life is like groundhog day only a 100 times more painful, and disappointing.

Or do you think God turns his back on those who turn away from him, leaving us vulnerable to evil spirits?

I think it can be a bit of both. God allows us to make mistakes. He allows us to hurt ourselves, others, and to perform any number of other sinful behaviours. But, he also warns us. He sympathizes. He reaches out. It's just that we rarely recognize these efforts, for one reason or another.

When Thomas declared that he finally believed when he saw Jesus with his own eyes and put his finger in Jesus' wounds, but Jesus offered a somewhat soft rebuke in return, saying, "Blessed rather are those who believe even through they have not seen". In other words, God is looking for people who respond to the truth in Jesus' teachings/spirit rather than to powerful, emotional experiences which force us to acknowledge him.