GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
that's not what a strawman is. a strawman is defending an argument that no one is actually making that you can easily defend. In doing so you put can manipulate the argument to show whatever it is you want it to show while giving the impression you've addressed the argbut you've actually not addressed the issues at all and instead only focusing on the made-up argument no one is representing.

it's called a strawman because it's easy to build and even easier to knock over. You've built the argument no one is defending and then you knock it over and pretend that this works. Who said Jesus abolished the law? I certainly haven't, in fact, I have been very explicitly said he hasn't, so why are you telling me that's what I'm saying and then taking this made-up argument and proving it wrong? Who are you talking to and what argument are you proving wrong? it isn't mine because that's not what I said. You are refuting your own made-up argument.

Your primary method seems to be refuting other people's ideas by labelling them in the spirit of abolished (which you have done in this reply) and then accusing them of going against God's words and in doing and liberally misrepresent their words to force the abolished side. That my friend is called a strawman and there is nothing else that it can be called. it is a deceitful poor defence and shows you actually don't care about discussing the issue critically.

My position is not a strawman because it's actually what I believe. I'm not taking your words, changing them, and then telling you why my version of your words do not follow God's word (that's what you're doing) and if I was doing that it would be a strawman. What I am doing is representing my own words and using scripture to show why I think dietary laws are no longer in effect which then implicitly disagrees with your position. that's not called a strawman, it's called defending my own position.

So I will say it again, I explicitly reject that Christ came to abolish any laws and explicitly accept that Christ came to fulfill the law. now I will explicitly tell you the moment you tell me what I actually am saying is "abolished" this is a strawman. As far as I can see this is your only defence to throw out every one's comments and say they don't follow God but without showing any sources. We get why you think this way but you're not disproving anything your just repeating the same lines over and over and accusing people of rejecting God's words. This is antagonistic and shows poor character on your part.

You just made a lot of words in order not to answer the questions directly asked of you in the post you are quoting from that you did not answer. Let me ask you again. You say you do not say the law is abolished yet you teach God's dietary laws and God's 4th commandment is abolished? How does that work? That is why the Words of Jesus were quoted in Matthew 5:17-20 in the first place. There you go. No strawman my side. Only God's Word which is not mine but Gods.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You say you do not say the law is abolished yet you teach God's dietary laws and God's 4th commandment is abolished?
You really don't understand what a strawman is. The above-quoted line is a strawman. why? because you've claimed I teach various laws are abolished which I have never once said and I have explicitly rejected, yet you continue to claim this is what I'm saying, then use it against me. this is your fabricated argument, not mine. I refuse to engage these questions until you change your language to represent my words not what you are changing them to be. (hint: stop using the word "abolished" to represent my words)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You really don't understand what a strawman is. The above-quoted line is a strawman. why? because you've claimed I teach various laws are abolished which I have never once said and I have explicitly rejected, yet you continue to claim this is what I'm saying, then use it against me. this is your fabricated argument, not mine. I refuse to engage these questions until you change your language to represent my words not what you are changing them to be. (hint: stop using the word "abolished" to represent my words)
Sure I understand what a strawman is. Your the one making them when scripture is shared with you. If what you have said here was true then you would have answered my questions already. I understand your arguments throughout our conversations as teaching in this thread you believe God's dietary laws are abolished and elsewhere in other threads as God's 4th commandment being abolished. That being the case, then why do you teach that God's dietary laws are abolished as well as God's 4th commandment when Jesus says they are not in Matthew 5:17-20? This is your chance to clear up any confusion if I have a misunderstanding of your position. Please go ahead and set the record straight. All you have done now is say strawman without proving why when I have only provided scripture that disagrees with your position.
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
why do you teach that God's dietary laws are abolished
I don't. I never have said that. This is another strawman.

I don't think you understand. I cannot answer a question that mispresents me, the question needs to be corrected before I can answer it. So I'm asking you to reframe the question so there is no strawman and then I will answer it. Otherwise all I can say is "I never said that" as the question doesn't apply to me so that's as far as I can answer it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I don't. I never have said that. This is another strawman.

I don't think you understand. I cannot answer a question that mispresents me, the question needs to be corrected before I can answer it. So I'm asking you to reframe the question so there is no strawman and then I will answer it. Otherwise all I can say is "I never said that" as the question doesn't apply to me so that's as far as I can answer it.

There was never any strawman arguments in my questions as a question is not an argument. It is not a hard question do you keep God's 4th commandment according to Exodus 20:8-11 and God's dietary laws of clean and unclean meats according to Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14? Yes or no?
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There was never any strawman arguments in my questions as a question is not an argument. It is not a hard question do you keep God's 4th commandment according to Exodus 20:8-11 and God's dietary laws of clean and unclean meats according to Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14? Yes or no?
The details you presuppose misrepresent my words and in themself are an argument. It is a leading question like asking a suspected robber "why did you rob the store" while they deny any involvement. It's a strawman because in it you bake in details you can easily refute and that you have made up yourself. So I agree with you that the law is not abolished but that's not what I claim the law is.

For the for first time however you have removed the word abolished (yet still refused to use my language) congratulations there is no immediate strawman in this quesrion (but I'm pretty sure it's still a part of a larger strawman eventually accusing me saying the law is abolished)

I'm not sure why you're asking me if I keep the Sabbath and dietary laws according to the laws. My personal practice is not the issue, the issue is more broadly about if the dietary laws are still in effect (and now you have put in the sabbath with that) so let's keep on topic. But I will say I don't eat pork, however my motivations are not law driven they are missionally driven. I live in a Muslim community and it is offensive in Islam to eat pork so I can effectively show Christ to these people if I too don't eat pork (or drink alcohol). By doing this my neighbours are comfortable to come into my house and eat any food I give them because they know it's safe for them and in doing this I have greater opportunity to speak and show Christ. In the same manner where I live there is a shrimp paste that is used to add flavour to many dishes. I personally don't like the taste that much but when I'm at someone's home and a dish is offered to me flavoured with this shrimp paste I gladly accept it with thanks and eat it. I do this because my motivation is missionally driven not law driven or driven by my personal taste. This doesn't mean I'm lawless it means my law is driven by Christ not Mosaic law.

Regarding dietary laws as I mentioned in my first post Peter's dream accomplishes 2 things. One that God's Spirit is released to the Gentiles and the dietary laws are not actually about food. The two mirror each other so if God's Spirit is released to the Gentiles than the dietary laws are released too (not abolished). They continue to point to God's plan of salvation but because God's Spirit is released to the Gentiles their purpose to segregate the Jews is complete.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The details you presuppose misrepresent my words and in themself are an argument. It is a leading question like asking a suspected robber "why did you rob the store" while they deny any involvement. It's a strawman because in it you bake in details you can easily refute and that you have made up yourself. So I agree with you that the law is not abolished but that's not what I claim the law is.

For the for first time however you have removed the word abolished (yet still refused to use my language) congratulations there is no immediate strawman in this quesrion (but I'm pretty sure it's still a part of a larger strawman eventually accusing me saying the law is abolished)

I'm not sure why you're asking me if I keep the Sabbath and dietary laws according to the laws. My personal practice is not the issue, the issue is more broadly about if the dietary laws are still in effect (and now you have put in the sabbath with that) so let's keep on topic. But I will say I don't eat pork, however my motivations are not law driven they are missionally driven. I live in a Muslim community and it is offensive in Islam to eat pork so I can effectively show Christ to these people if I too don't eat pork (or drink alcohol). By doing this my neighbours are comfortable to come into my house and eat any food I give them because they know it's safe for them and in doing this I have greater opportunity to speak and show Christ. In the same manner where I live there is a shrimp paste that is used to add flavour to many dishes. I personally don't like the taste that much but when I'm at someone's home and a dish is offered to me flavoured with this shrimp paste I gladly accept it with thanks and eat it. I do this because my motivation is missionally driven not law driven or driven by my personal taste. This doesn't mean I'm lawless it means my law is driven by Christ not Mosaic law.

Regarding dietary laws as I mentioned in my first post Peter's dream accomplishes 2 things. One that God's Spirit is released to the Gentiles and the dietary laws are not actually about food. The two mirror each other so if God's Spirit is released to the Gentiles than the dietary laws are released too (not abolished). They continue to point to God's plan of salvation but because God's Spirit is released to the Gentiles their purpose to segregate the Jews is complete.

Just what I said from the beginning right? You teach God's dietary laws are abolished as well as God's 4th commandment. Which is why I quoted Matthew 5:17-20 in the first place. You teach God's dietary laws and God's 4th commandment is abolished in opposition to the very words of Jesus here...

Matthew 5:17-20 [17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So what has changed here? - Nothing.
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
back to the strawman I see
yes, it would seem nothing has changed

As posted earlier dear friend God's Word is not strawman and neither is asking a question to you an argument which is needed to make a strawman argument. Perhaps it might help if you can google the meaning of what a strawman argument is?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
As posted earlier dear friend God's Word is not strawman and neither is asking a question to you an argument which is needed to make a strawman argument. Perhaps it might help if you can google the meaning of what a strawman argument is?
I know what a strawman argument is. And you are making it by forcing the word abolished on my words.

Here is the Google answer (Google pulled it from wiki)

Starw man argument (wiki):
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted

Here is your quote:
You teach God's dietary laws are abolished as well as God's 4th commandment. Which is why I quoted Matthew 5:17-20 in the first place. You teach God's dietary laws and God's 4th commandment is abolished in opposition to the very words of Jesus here...

The argument you refute is "God's dietary laws are abolished" and it is an informal fallacy that you refute with Mat 5:17 which says Jesus did not come to abolish the law. This is correct, it's what Jesus said and saying God's law is abolished is incorrect easily rufuted with the scripture.

So what's the problem? The problem is when you say "you teach..." Now you have connect what I say to the informal fallacy but the problem is I never said that and I have explictly rejected it. I say Jesus fulfilled the law but you do not address this and replaced fulfilled with abolished. So it appears you are refuting the argument but since you have manipulated my words you don't properly refute them, all you refute is manipulated argument you superimpose on me.

This is why it's a strawman.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I know what a strawman argument is. And you are making it by forcing the word abolished on my words.

Here is the Google answer (Google pulled it from wiki)

Starw man argument (wiki):
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted

Here is your quote:
You teach God's dietary laws are abolished as well as God's 4th commandment. Which is why I quoted Matthew 5:17-20 in the first place. You teach God's dietary laws and God's 4th commandment is abolished in opposition to the very words of Jesus here...

The argument you refute is "God's dietary laws are abolished" and it is an informal fallacy that you refute with Mat 5:17 which says Jesus did not come to abolish the law. This is correct, it's what Jesus said and saying God's law is abolished is incorrect easily rufuted with the scripture.

So what's the problem? The problem is when you say "you teach..." Now you have connect what I say to the informal fallacy but the problem is I never said that and I have explictly rejected it. I say Jesus fulfilled the law but you do not address this and replaced fulfilled with abolished. So it appears you are refuting the argument but since you have manipulated my words you don't properly refute them, all you refute is manipulated argument you superimpose on me.

This is why it's a strawman.

Sorry dear friend but I think your going around in circles again. Nothing you have posted there shows that you believing God's dietary laws and God's 4th commandment is abolished and me providing scripture from Jesus showing that Jesus did not come to abolish these laws is a strawman argument. Your belief is that these laws are no longer a requirement right? The scriptures posted to you from Jesus in Matthew 5:17-20 shows they are. Which is the opposite of what you teach now who should we believe and follow; you or God?
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Sorry dear friend but I think your going around in circles again here dear friend. Your the one that teaches that God's dietary laws and Gods 4th commandment Sabbath is abolished now right?
and you're back to the strawman
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hmm nope not me. It is called scripture. I never left it.
should we go back to the definition again of what a strawman is? Your scripture is refuting an argument never made and one I explicitly reject. It's not the scripture that's the strawman, it's the argument you're refuting and then superimposing on me.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
should we go back to the definition again of what a strawman is? Your scripture is refuting an argument never made and one I explicitly reject. It's not the scripture that's the strawman, it's the argument you're refuting and then superimposing on me.
No scripture is not a strawman. Your making a strawman argument against scripture that disagrees with your teaching that the dietary laws and God's 4th commandment are abolished when the scriptures teach they are not abolished.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No scripture is not a strawman. Your making a strawman argument against scripture that disagrees with your teaching that the dietary laws and God's 4th commandment are abolished when the scriptures teach they are not abolished.
I don't think you understand what a strawman is. scripture is not the strawman and I've never said this (you have a problem with mispresenting people's words). scripture is your defence to your argument you present. and it is that argument that is strawman. Where you are correct to refute it with the scripture you have the argument itself is not mine it is one you have superimposing on me, thus the strawman.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I don't think you understand what a strawman is. scripture is not the strawman and I've never said this (you have a problem with mispresenting people's words). scripture is your defence to your argument you present. and it is that argument that is strawman. Where you are correct to refute it with the scripture you have the argument itself is not mine it is one you have superimposing on me, thus the strawman.
Actually no, it is you who does not understand what a strawman is. Then lets start from the beginning again do you believe that the dietary laws and God's 4th commandment are scriptural requirements? YES/NO?
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Actually no, it is you who does not understand what a strawman is. Then lets start from the beginning again do you believe that the dietary laws and God's 4th commandment are scriptural requirements? YES/NO?
Please explain to me in your words what a strawman is.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Please explain to me in your words what a strawman is.
When you answer my question that I asked you first that your refusing to answer and ignoring. Do you believe that the dietary laws and God's 4th commandment are scriptural requirements? YES/NO?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
When you answer my question that I asked you first that your ignoring.
Can you provided sources to your definition of a strawman? And then show me how it relates to my reponses?

I'm not answering your question out of protest that it is a strawman and so is deceptive. I have lost confidence in your ability to understand what a strawman even is.

I will answer your question if you agree never to claim I say the law is abolished (or any other word translated from strong #2647 "kataluo" as it applies to Mat 5:17-20) unless I explictly use this word first to say God has abolished the law. (Which I explictly reject)
 
Upvote 0