Theological option for the "I don't know, and that's okay" crowd.

[Gregory Thompson]

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Ephesians 3:20-21)

God is able to do exceeding abundantly above or immeasurably more than we could imagine or think. Therefore,

I don't really believe in eternal torment, annihilationism, or universalism. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. All the people are probably wrong.

I don't really believe in free will or pre-destination arguments. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Both are probably wrong.

I don't believe in theologies that say how it will end. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Everyone is probably wrong, as it is written: May God be true and every human a liar.

The idea came to me as a theological option, how would this affect your church if everyone started applying this idea? And also, what do you think of it?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Theologoumenon for Catholic and Orthodox, or theological opinions, and aidaphora (church rites that are "...neither commanded nor forbidden in the Word of God.) for Lutherans has been around for a long time.

Basically as long as something has not been defined as dogmatic or as official doctrine, are present in all groups.

Within the EO, we are working out a deaconate for women. That position used to exist, but was simple phased out over centuries. However, Russian Orthodoxy has always had deaconesses. So that's a renewed point of contention.

Mary being ever-virgin is defined for Catholic, EO and OO, Lutherans see that as adiaphora and you'll find both sides being argued.

 

[mmksparbud]

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Ephesians 3:20-21)

God is able to do exceeding abundantly above or immeasurably more than we could imagine or think. Therefore,

I don't really believe in eternal torment, annihilationism, or universalism. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. All the people are probably wrong.

I don't really believe in free will or pre-destination arguments. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Both are probably wrong.

I don't believe in theologies that say how it will end. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Everyone is probably wrong, as it is written: May God be true and every human a liar.

The idea came to me as a theological option, how would this affect your church if everyone started applying this idea? And also, what do you think of it?

It doesn't matter what you believe. We believe what scripture says. In the original language it is the word of God and those are my words to believe. What we are to do is try to understand what those words mean in the language and culture of the time. Not in the words and language of this time. We can translate to better understand, but the concept has to be understood by the way it was understood then. The philosophy of men means nothing, it is the philosophy of God that we are to comprehend. We can only comprehend what He has given, what He has chosen to not give us understanding of is what we just take by faith and we can say that we do not know and that is OK.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Theologoumenon for Catholic and Orthodox, or theological opinions, and aidaphora (church rites that are "...neither commanded nor forbidden in the Word of God.) for Lutherans has been around for a long time.

Basically as long as something has not been defined as dogmatic or as official doctrine, are present in all groups.

Within the EO, we are working out a deaconate for women. That position used to exist, but was simple phased out over centuries. However, Russian Orthodoxy has always had deaconesses. So that's a renewed point of contention.

Mary being ever-virgin is defined for Catholic, EO and OO, Lutherans see that as adiaphora and you'll find both sides being argued.

Thank you, that's helpful.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It doesn't matter what you believe. We believe what scripture says. In the original language it is the word of God and those are my words to believe. What we are to do is try to understand what those words mean in the language and culture of the time. Not in the words and language of this time. We can translate to better understand, but the concept has to be understood by the way it was understood then. The philosophy of men means nothing, it is the philosophy of God that we are to comprehend. We can only comprehend what He has given, what He has chosen to not give us understanding of is what we just take by faith and we can say that we do not know and that is OK.

Take this post and have every denomination with conflicting viewpoints say the same thing.

This is part of the point.

 

[mmksparbud]

Take this post and have every denomination with conflicting viewpoints say the same thing.

This is part of the point.

But that is the question, are they reading the scriptures, or what their denomination has said they mean?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But that is the question, are they reading the scriptures, or what their denomination has said they mean?

It's not really like that.

People read the scriptures and come to conclusions.

People in a set generation come to a finite number of conclusions.

This is why we have denominations.

Some people may just be growing out of the pew and such, but I was referring to people who have studied all the possible conclusions and are not convinced any of them speak to what God will do beyond what we are able to imagine.

 

[public hermit]

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Ephesians 3:20-21)

God is able to do exceeding abundantly above or immeasurably more than we could imagine or think. Therefore,

I don't really believe in eternal torment, annihilationism, or universalism. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. All the people are probably wrong.

I don't really believe in free will or pre-destination arguments. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Both are probably wrong.

I don't believe in theologies that say how it will end. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Everyone is probably wrong, as it is written: May God be true and every human a liar.

The idea came to me as a theological option, how would this affect your church if everyone started applying this idea? And also, what do you think of it?

I think doxastic humility is a rare virtue among Christians (and understandably so). I like what you're saying. And, in a sense, it captures what I mean by doxastic humility.

How seriously should I take my particular belief on the matters you touched on? Could my belief concerning one of them be wrong? Of course, it could. Is that okay? Sure. There is no way that we can know for certain (on this side of eternity) if our beliefs represent a one-for-one correspondence with the Reality that is God, or with what God is doing. They don't have to be wholly wrong to not be wholly right.

Your position seems a bit stronger than the last paragraph, but it captures the willingness to not "know" and yet believe. Faith can persist even when all our concepts no longer serve us well. Perhaps, that's when faith truly comes into its own, so to speak.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think doxastic humility is a rare virtue among Christians (and understandably so). I like what you're saying. And, in a sense, it captures what I mean by doxastic humility.

How seriously should I take my particular belief on the matters you touched on? Could my belief concerning one of them be wrong? Of course, it could. Is that okay? Sure. There is no way that we can know for certain (on this side of eternity) if our beliefs represent a one-for-one correspondence with the Reality that is God, or with what God is doing. They don't have to be wholly wrong to not be wholly right.

Your position seems a bit stronger than the last paragraph, but it captures the willingness to not "know" and yet believe. Faith can persist even when all our concepts no longer serve us well. Perhaps, that's when faith truly comes into its own, so to speak.

Thank you for that.

I have many parallel theologies that are running in the background of my head but English is limited in that only one can be presented at a time.

So when I talk on a biblical subject, all the study that went into that position comes out and maybe I come off a little strong, but the fruit cannot be apparent if the expression is not genuine.

I tend to take "I'll live in that question" (with no idolizing of an answer) as a default and favor interpretations that have better or best fruit when applied. Best or better being graded on how God responds spiritually.

 

[Jipsah]

But that is the question, are they reading the scriptures, or what their denomination has said they mean?

Same question is applicable to you as well, innit?

 

[mmksparbud]

It's not really like that.

People read the scriptures and come to conclusions.

People in a set generation come to a finite number of conclusions.

This is why we have denominations.

Some people may just be growing out of the pew and such, but I was referring to people who have studied all the possible conclusions and are not convinced any of them speak to what God will do beyond what we are able to imagine.

But that is exactly what God says---He will do beyond what we are able to imagine. So it may be fun to imagine some things, but don't think that is what it will be. Believe what is said, we can't believe past that, for only God will be able to fulfill His desires for us.

 

[mmksparbud]

Same question is applicable to you as well, innit?

Yah---I am not SDA because I believe what they teach---I am SDA because they teach what I believe.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But that is exactly what God says---He will do beyond what we are able to imagine. So it may be fun to imagine some thongs, but don't think that is what it will be. Believe what is said, we can't believe past that, for only God will be able to fulfill His desires for us.

Heard it in the above post first, gospel of the thongs.

All the interpretations of scripture are what we imagine to be true.

But God will always do more than we can imagine.

 

[bling]

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Ephesians 3:20-21)

God is able to do exceeding abundantly above or immeasurably more than we could imagine or think. Therefore,

I don't really believe in eternal torment, annihilationism, or universalism. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. All the people are probably wrong.

I don't really believe in free will or pre-destination arguments. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Both are probably wrong.

I don't believe in theologies that say how it will end. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Everyone is probably wrong, as it is written: May God be true and every human a liar.

The idea came to me as a theological option, how would this affect your church if everyone started applying this idea? And also, what do you think of it?

Is the indwelling Holy Spirit wrong?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Is the indwelling Holy Spirit wrong?

Of course not, the body The Holy Spirit indwells is wrong.

The brain inside that body does all of the theological interpretations, and is thus affected by sin.

 

[Saint Steven]

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Ephesians 3:20-21)

God is able to do exceeding abundantly above or immeasurably more than we could imagine or think. Therefore,

I don't really believe in eternal torment, annihilationism, or universalism. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. All the people are probably wrong.

I don't really believe in free will or pre-destination arguments. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Both are probably wrong.

I don't believe in theologies that say how it will end. And that is okay, because God will do immeasurably more than we can imagine or think. Everyone is probably wrong, as it is written: May God be true and every human a liar.

The idea came to me as a theological option, how would this affect your church if everyone started applying this idea? And also, what do you think of it?

Thanks.
This topic is a breath of fresh air for those drowning in "chapter and verse" demands.

Sometimes you just know that you know. Like an unexplained spiritual gut feeling. Which others dismiss as an unprovable opinion. Thus devaluing your statement. (didn't win the debate - horrors)

 

[Saint Steven]

So it may be fun to imagine some thongs...

I hope you meant sandals. - lol

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thanks.
This topic is a breath of fresh air for those drowning in "chapter and verse" demands.

Sometimes you just know that you know. Like an unexplained spiritual gut feeling. Which others dismiss as an unprovable opinion. Thus devaluing your statement. (didn't win the debate - horrors)

Blessings.

 

[bling]

Of course not, the body The Holy Spirit indwells is wrong.

The brain inside that body does all of the theological interpretations, and is thus affected by sin.

If we quench the Spirit, but if we are not quenching the Spirit can the Spirit be involved in a wrong interpretation?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If we quench the Spirit, but if we are not quenching the Spirit can the Spirit be involved in a wrong interpretation?

How does one identify that the spirit is quenched?

Since the carnal nature (of the body) is hostile to the spirit, it cannot be quantified by emotions.