The Holy Spirit As The Down Payment of Our Inheritance

[Mr. M]

Please include scripture references in your response
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Paul here does not seem to be talking about "being endued with power" as in Acts 1.
2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who
also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee [down payment].

Ephesians 1:
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

This sounds more akin to how circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel.
Any thoughts?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The seal of the promise is difficult to imagine today (in terms of a purchase) since we have different technology.

However, I wouldn't say it's a down payment, but it is an advance full payment in which at a later date God comes to redeem His purchase.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The indwelling presence comes at being born again. This includes the Spirit of Fear of the Lord which seals salvation.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a permanent anointing of power for ministry which usually comes later.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Paul here does not seem to be talking about "being endued with power" as in Acts 1.
2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who
also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee [down payment].

Ephesians 1:
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

This sounds more akin to how circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel.
Any thoughts?

It’s a guarantee that He will fulfill His promise if we fulfill His terms of the covenant.

 

[Mr. M]

It’s a guarantee that He will fulfill His promise if we fulfill His terms of the covenant.

the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

This statement involving redemption does suggest, as you have stated, that the Lord is not fully
invested in us until we are fully invested in Him, The Father's Will, His Purpose. Just waiting around
to go to heaven will get you to the low seat. Serve from there now, and He will say, "come up higher".

 

[bling]

Please include scripture references in your response
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Paul here does not seem to be talking about "being endued with power" as in Acts 1.
2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who
also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee [down payment].

Ephesians 1:
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

This sounds more akin to how circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel.
Any thoughts?

No it is not like circumcision:
Circumcision was outward visible physical and mostly done for you by your parents without your knowledge at the time. Circumcision showed to you and others that you were given a greater roll in this life (greater responsibility with greater honor).
Circumcision did not show: your heart was circumcised, you were following God's leadership, you had accepted your greater responsibility, you Loved God, and you were truly a child of Abraham.
The indwelling Holy Spirit is not seen outwardly and thus His dwelling in you cannot be proof for others. The individual with the Spirit still has free will and must allow the Spirit to operate in them, since the individual can quench the Spirit and go about doing his/her own thing which others can see and question even if he/she has the Spirit.
Only the individual him/her self can know for certain they have the indwelling portion of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mr. M]

No it is not like circumcision:
Circumcision was outward visible physical and mostly done for you by your parents without your knowledge at the time. Circumcision showed to you and others that you were given a greater roll in this life (greater responsibility with greater honor).

Yes, there is a physical circumcision, and there is a spiritual "circumcision" by way of comparison.
The physical circumcision was the sign of a covenant relationship. Since the spiritual circumcision
is hidden, covenant relationship manifests in the character or virtues of the person as the fruit
of the Spirit.

Colossians 2:11. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ.

Romans 2:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

[bling]

Yes, there is a physical circumcision, and there is a spiritual "circumcision" by way of comparison.
The physical circumcision was the sign of a covenant relationship. Since the spiritual circumcision
is hidden, covenant relationship manifests in the character or virtues of the person as the fruit
of the Spirit.

Colossians 2:11. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ.

Romans 2:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Yes, but you were comparing the indwelling Holy Spirit to "circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel", and that circumcision was the physical circumcision.

 

[Clare73]

Please include scripture references in your response
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Paul here does not seem to be talking about "being endued with power" as in Acts 1.
2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who
also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee [down payment].

Ephesians 1:
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.



This sounds more akin to how circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel.
Any thoughts?

Col 2:11-12?

 

[Clare73]

The seal of the promise is difficult to imagine today (in terms of a purchase) since we have different technology.

However, I wouldn't say it's a down payment, but it is an advance full payment in which at a later date God comes to redeem His purchase.

Earnest (arrhabon) is a down payment (1Co 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:14).

 

[Mr. M]

Yes, but you were comparing the indwelling Holy Spirit to "circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel", and that circumcision was the physical circumcision.

I was not, the topic is Paul describing the Holy Spirit as a down payment or guarantee.

2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who
also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee [down payment].

Ephesians 1:
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[bling]

I was not, the topic is Paul describing the Holy Spirit as a down payment or guarantee.

I just quoted from your post, what you were comparing it to?

 

[Mr. M]

I just quoted from your post, what you were comparing it to?

The same thing Paul was comparing in Romans. One physical, one in the Spirit.
The topic is the use of a down payment or guarantee of redemption.
The connection is that all pertain to a covenant relationship.
Old covenant sign-circumcision. New Covenant-Holy Spirit "circumcision of the heart".
Simply comparing these two teachings of Paul.

Ephesians 1:
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Colossians 2:11. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ.

Romans 2:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

[Clare73]

It’s a guarantee that He will fulfill His promise if we fulfill His terms of the covenant.

We fulfill? 1Co 4:7?

Can the Spirit of salvation be temporary?

 

[Clare73]

Please include scripture references in your response
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Paul here does not seem to be talking about "being endued with power" as in Acts 1.
2 Corinthians 1:
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who
also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee [down payment].

Ephesians 1:
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according
to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

This sounds more akin to how circumcision is a sign of covenant with Israel.
Any thoughts?

I think baptism is the sign of the New Covenant of grace (Col 2:111-12),
as circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Ge 15:6).

 

[BNR32FAN]

We fulfill? 1Co 4:7?

Can the Spirit of salvation be temporary?

I assume your referring to the Holy Spirit so I would say no the Holy Spirit is not temporary but we are able to grieve Him thereby making us sons of disobedience

 

[Clare73]

I assume your referring to the Holy Spirit so I would say no the Holy Spirit is not temporary but we are able to grieve Him thereby making us sons of disobedience

The sons (huios) of disobedience (Eph 2:2-3, 5:6; Col 3:6--"on those who are disobedient") subject to wrath, are not the sons of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The sons (huios) of disobedience (Eph 2:2-3, 5:6; Col 3:6--"on those who are disobedient") subject to wrath, are not the sons of God.

Let’s read Ephesians 4 on thru into chapter 5 and get the full message.

“So I say this, and affirm in the Lord, that you are to no longer walk just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their minds, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves up to indecent behavior for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former way of life, you are to rid yourselves of the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you are to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, ridding yourselves of falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE OF YOU WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, because we are parts of one another. B E ANGRY, AND YET DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. The one who steals must no longer steal; but rather he must labor, producing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with the one who has need. Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. All bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and slander must be removed from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But sexual immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness or foolish talk, or vulgar joking, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no sexually immoral or impure or greedy person, which amounts to an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. See that no one deceives you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Now is Paul saying here that we don’t have to meet any expectations in order to enter the kingdom of heaven? No he’s laying down the expectations. Children of God are not disobedient. Those who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are acting in disobedience.

 

[Clare73]

I assume your referring to the Holy Spirit so I would say no the Holy Spirit is not temporary but we are able to grieve Him thereby
making us sons of disobedience

The sons (huios) of disobedience (Eph 2:2-3, 5:6; Col 3:6--"on those who are disobedient") subject to wrath, are not the sons of God.

Let’s read Ephesians 4 on thru into chapter 5 and get the full message.

“So I say this, and affirm in the Lord, that you are to no longer walk just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their minds, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves up to indecent behavior for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former way of life, you are to rid yourselves of the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you are to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, ridding yourselves of falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE OF YOU WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, because we are parts of one another. B E ANGRY, AND YET DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. The one who steals must no longer steal; but rather he must labor, producing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with the one who has need. Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. All bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and slander must be removed from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But sexual immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness or foolish talk, or vulgar joking, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

For this you know with certainty, that no sexually immoral or impure or greedy person, which amounts to an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. See that no one deceives you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Now is Paul saying here that we don’t have to meet any expectations in order to enter the kingdom of heaven? No he’s laying down the expectations. Children of God are not disobedient. Those who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are acting in disobedience.

Yes, children of God can act in disobedience. But the NT does not refer to them as "sons of disobedience." The "sons of disobedience" are as Paul describes them above--sexually immoral, impure, greedy, idolaters, who "you know with certainty have no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God." They are the unsaved.

I'm just pointing out that "sons of disobedience," like "children of wrath," etc. are special NT phrases which refer to the unsaved, not to the children/sons of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The sons (huios) of disobedience (Eph 2:2-3, 5:6; Col 3:6--"on those who are disobedient") subject to wrath, are not the sons of God.

Yes, children of God can act in disobedience. But the NT does not refer to them as "sons of disobedience." The "sons of disobedience" are as Paul describes them above--sexually immoral, impure, greedy, idolaters, who "you know with certainty have no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God." They are the unsaved.

I'm just pointing out that "sons of disobedience," like "children of wrath," etc. are special NT phrases which refer to the unsaved, not to the children/sons of God.

Paul’s warning here is to people who are “sealed with the Holy Spirit”. He’s warning them not to turn to this sinful way of life. What he is telling them is that they are capable of turning back to sin and capable of once again becoming a son of disobedience. A person who continuously grieves the Holy Spirit is a sin of disobedience.