Discussion All of the Spiritual Gifts are for today

[Gregory Thompson]

To affirm, all of the spiritual gifts written in the bible, and some that God gifted as uniques still happen today.

Furthermore, it is important to note that the spiritual gifts are given to us so we can edify the body of Christ as Paul taught.

The gifts are not given to be used to prove one's theology is more correct than say, another's theology. Since this practice causes division, and God is not the author of confusion, this point should make sense.

In this discussion, you may discuss any of the above, or post a scripture along with advice on how it helped you use your gift(s) to help build up the body of Christ.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think that we should add two more gifts that were not included in Paul's various lists, but are demonstrated in the Old Testament: seers & dreamers.

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy." Acts of the Apostles 2:17-18 NKJV
(quoting Joel 2:28-29)

(I realize that they are a subset of prophecy, but so are prophetic tongues.)

 

[lismore]

Hello. If you look at 1 Corinthians 12 it's interesting how many times the same concept appears. The words 'given', 'appointed', 'arranged', 'composed'. It's God's church, he's the overseer, the giver, the arranger. If God doesn't give you the gift then you won't have it.

IMO I think where things can go wrong with spiritual gifts is that they are treated like items in a vending machine. 'Develop your spiritual gift', 'build your ministry'. Put your money in the slot, go to the right seminar, buy the right teaching DVD, get the gift you want.

Take for example the increasing number of sermons today which rarely mention God or Jesus in any shape or form. Some don't even read from the bible, apart from the odd verse out of context. A Godless church is appearing. Jesus is the author and finisher of the faith, not an addendum.

God Bless

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think that we should add two more gifts that were not included in Paul's various lists, but are demonstrated in the Old Testament: seers & dreamers.

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy." Acts of the Apostles 2:17-18 NKJV
(quoting Joel 2:28-29)

(I realize that they are a subset of prophecy, but so are prophetic tongues.)

Yeah, this reminds me of when God spoke of Moses. When God communicates to most people - they get dreams and visions, but it was not so with Moses - God spoke to him directly - and this seemed related to him being faithful in all of God's house.

One can take these signs of hearing from God in terms of how mature they might be, in the sense where Moses said "I wish everyone could prophesy" which seemed much like this covenant.

So saying visionaries and dreamers are separate gifts, it might be helpful to break it down if there were teachings that helped to mature through these stages.

In terms of prophetic tongues, I recall a passage that says if someone prays to interpret their tongue - then this is on equal footing with prophecy for edification value. So I wouldn't say those who prayed to interpret their unknown tongue are prophesying - but those thoughts when translated to the common language might look towards the mysteries - since it is also written that they utter profound mysteries. Which is why Paul encouraged them to pray to interpret so the whole church could be built up.

 

[topher694]

Agreed, all the gifts are active today and available to all believers. I experienced a major example of this just today.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hello. If you look at 1 Corinthians 12 it's interesting how many times the same concept appears. The words 'given', 'appointed', 'arranged', 'composed'. It's God's church, he's the overseer, the giver, the arranger. If God doesn't give you the gift then you won't have it.

IMO I think where things can go wrong with spiritual gifts is that they are treated like items in a vending machine. 'Develop your spiritual gift', 'build your ministry'. Put your money in the slot, go to the right seminar, buy the right teaching DVD, get the gift you want.

Take for example the increasing number of sermons today which rarely mention God or Jesus in any shape or form. Some don't even read from the bible, apart from the odd verse out of context. A Godless church is appearing. Jesus is the author and finisher of the faith, not an addendum.

God Bless

I'd agree when people need the labels to identify, this is a tendency of the flesh.

God names things because there is a purpose.

But humans name everything because it helps with discussion, and is awkward to express if there is no specific term. God has no need of words to demonstrate, but uses them for our benefit. This illustrates a divide in how God's language works, and how human language works.

 

[topher694]

I'd like to tack on a related question if I may... I'm wondering who here attends or has attended churches where all the gifts are active and flowing in a healthy manner?

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm wondering who here... has attended churches where all the gifts are active and flowing in a healthy manner?

Early Vineyard had "Everybody plays!" but that seems to have been dialed back a bit after Wimber passed.

(Before COVID, we weren't able to attend because of some serious [logistical issues].)

 

[topher694]

Early Vineyard had "Everybody plays!" but that seems to have been dialed back a bit after Wimber passed.

(Before COVID, we weren't able to attend because of some serious [logistical issues].)

I'm not familiar with that, what is "everybody plays"?

 

[Sabertooth]

When we need prayer for healing, etc., instead of just going to an elder, we break into smaller groups of the congregation and anyone present might manifest a gift at that time. That still happens to a degree.

In the past, during worship, someone might give a prophetic Word or utter prophetic tongues to which another would give an interpretation. That has pretty much stopped altogether, along with singing/worship in tongues.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

When we need prayer for healing, etc., instead of just going to an elder, we break into smaller groups of the congregation and anyone present might manifest a gift at that time. That still happens to a degree.

In the past, during worship, someone might give a prophetic Word or utter prophetic tongues to which another would give an interpretation. That has pretty much stopped altogether, along with singing/worship in tongues.

I had an interesting experience at the Vineyard..a few years ago.
- Someone spoke in tongues..during the meeting/service.
- I gave 'the interepretation.'
---
One fellow who has been in the Vineyard..
- From the early days..told me after the meeting.
- "Vineyard is not into 'the gift of tongues' much.."
---
That was the first time..I heard someone 'speaking in tongues' there..that needs interpretation.
- I was there.. several years.
----
Any movement changes..
- from original vision, focus, commitment, etc.
- After the first generation..
- It becomes another establishment.
That has been the pattern.. in Christian history.
- It is inevitable..the Vineyard is becoming..
---
Blessings,

 

[Richard T]

All I would like to add is that some churches do not give enough time for the gifts to manifest greatly. Some also depend only on a certain few for most outward manifestations. That can be good at times, but might also quench the spirit at times as well.
Currently, I do know of one open church where the gifts and more manifest every service. When i say more I am referring to I Cor 14:26 "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying." When I say open, I mean that anyone in the service can contribute.

Lastly, I think that some charismatic churches have some strange doctrines. I think this contributes to some of the weirdness that some see surrounding the genuineness of the gifts. Other churches may err by not letting the others judge prophecies as the bible asks us to do. I have seen public tongues shut down by a mega-church pastor, but have no memory of any church i ever attended shutting down or disagreeing with a public prophecy that was just given.

 

[topher694]

All I would like to add is that some churches do not give enough time for the gifts to manifest greatly. Some also depend only on a certain few for most outward manifestations. That can be good at times, but might also quench the spirit at times as well.
Currently, I do know of one open church where the gifts and more manifest every service. When i say more I am referring to I Cor 14:26 "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying." When I say open, I mean that anyone in the service can contribute.

Lastly, I think that some charismatic churches have some strange doctrines. I think this contributes to some of the weirdness that some see surrounding the genuineness of the gifts. Other churches may err by not letting the others judge prophecies as the bible asks us to do. I have seen public tongues shut down by a mega-church pastor, but have no memory of any church i ever attended shutting down or disagreeing with a public prophecy that was just given.

In regards to shutting down public prophecy. At my church, we flow in all of the gifts, train our congregation to do the same and provide a platform for them to work in the gifts as long as proper order is followed. Because of this I've had a questionable prophecy happen a few times. What we do whenever possible is come in behind and "redeem" the word. It is a form of correction without calling someone out. It depends on the situation, but I may take the good parts and emphasize that, or minister what is correct without making it obvious what they said was incorrect. Then after service we can bring correction to the person who released the word privately without embarrassing them. This also allows for the flow of the service to continue uninterrupted. In cases of serious error this may not be possible, but that hasn't happened to us, mostly because our order catches such things before they can happen.

 

[tturt]

Attended a convention several years ago, there was an interpretation of tongues that had a couple of things that were off. The church just continued to quietly praise and pray. Then there was an accurate message which was received. No one got upset with the 1st interpreter and could have been learning to be used in that gift.

At another conference, I saw a couple give an interpretation. The husband would be given a few words then the wife would be given a few. But it was whole and perfectly presented what the message was. Though it was different by having 2 interpret the same message at the same time, it was accepted. .

Read about a woman who stood after a revival service and said the Lord had told her to continue the services for 2 more weeks. There was a hush and some began to pray. In a few minutes, another woman said you and the man you're with who is back at the hotel have been making a lot of fun of these services. The two of you planned this announcement, think we're gullible, and you plan to scam us. But the Lord gives you this warning - (can't remember those details). But she rushed from the building refusing their offer to pray with her. They dismissed the service and some earnestly prayed for her.

In each of those settings, believers from various churches were together and listened to what God was leading. He used the manifestation of the spiritual gifts.

 

[Optimus Fortis]

^that’s a good story. It suggests the problem is that not enough people operate in prophecy and discernment of spirits.

For every genuine false prophet, there are probably 99 people with pure hearts who’d like to operate in prophecy but are not confident to make a start.

 

[Sabertooth]

For every genuine false prophet,...

(Isn't that an oxymoron...?)

 

[lismore]

IMHO another issue with spiritual gifts in our day is the volume of them. For example some 'prophets' churn out screeds and screeds of material, books, CDs, podcasts, even if it's genuine no-one would be able to follow that amount of information. Some produce a book the size of the bible annually.

Contrast this with the prophet Agabus in the book of Acts, in thirty years he gave two recorded prophecies (Acts 11:28, Acts 21:10).

God Bless

 

[tturt]

Topher694 asks if anyone has attended a church where all of His gifts were operationing No but attended one where most of them were. Just my thoughts, there's an increase in attendance when the gifts of healing and miracles are more evident.

Think it's interesting that it's the gifts of healing. In Scripture, Jesus would asks them What do you want me to do for you such as in Mark 10. They had faith He could heal them of their particular sickness - maybe not the next person's problem. Of course Jesus healed them all.(Matt 12) Today think He uses us in the gifts of healing to cover all.

 

[tturt]

What's your take on the gifts of healing?

 

[SANTOSO]

I see many are concerned about spiritual gifts these days. But I find many put on the wrong emphasis. Bear with me as I share.

If we look carefully, this is what we have heard:

while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will. -Hebrews 2:4

So the activation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is not as we will but as the Holy Spirit wills.

Many are looking for the manifestation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit but that is not the concern or will of God.

We must understand that the excellence way that apostle Paul have reminded us :

Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. -1 Corinthians 13:8

What many miss when hearing what apostle Paul have said.

We must understand what has been spoken:

and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. -Romans 5:5

So the Holy Spirit is the One called Love Eternal ; unless we speak in His language of love, the operation of His gift lack the divine nature of His love, purpose, plans and wills.

So what we must do to be effective as Holy Spirit wills is to remove any hindrances as we have heard in Hebrew 12:1

That is what we must understand the heart of Christ. We must be there to comfort Him who ever lives to intercede.

That is that we must comprehend the heart of the Living Father calling His children in love and reconciliation.

When God gives us the strength to remove all grievances against His Spirit, I believe the mighty workings of the Holy Spirit’s gifts readily available to bring God glory.

So the focus on activating the gifts of Holy Spirit is for us to love another as Christ commands. So we should be more thoughtful towards one another in love and speech and grow into Christ who is our Head.