New Administration takes over - Congress goes on Vacation

[Michael]

How long have you been in congress that you know this information so intimately?

Now who should I take the most trust in? A Congressman or an anonymous poster on a forum.

Is this a congressman who voted to throw away millions of votes because he party lost the election by any chance? What exactly makes a congressman a "reliable witness" to start with?

 

[Michael]

No debating, and no passing of anything. Nancy is STILL sitting on help for covid relief that she openly admitted to stalling because she didn't like the President. She is playing politics with our lives.

What a bunch of false GOP nonsense! When Trump asked to have a 2000 per person change made to the last stimulus bill, it was *Nancy* and the Democratic House that *immediately* got to work and passed a bill to make that change, in spite of her differences with Trump. Mitch McConnell and the GOP then *refused* to sign it or even allow it to be voted on, like 400+ other bills which were passed by the House. The *GOP* blocked that stimulus package change, not the House democrats or Senate democrats. You're spewing utter nonsense again.

The GOP is the problem in terms of signing bills. Over 400 bills signed by the House were not even allowed to be debated in the Senate because Mitch and his Republican Senate wouldn't even debate them!

"Grim Reaper" Mitch McConnell admits there are 395 House bills sitting in the Senate: "We're not going to pass those"

You're just flat our misrepresenting the facts now.

The GOP is playing games with our lives for political purposes, not the Democrats.

 

[hislegacy]

he's clearly working on a Covid-19 vaccine rollout plan because his predecessor didn't have one,

That is amazing! The Administration that worked with private sector companies to develop and effective vaccine faster than ever in history and now every state in the union is getting shipments did so without a roll out plan.

Sounds like Q’anon level information to me.

 

[hislegacy]

Is this a congressman who voted to throw away millions of votes because he party lost the election by any chance? What exactly makes a congressman a "reliable witness" to start with?

Believe what you want, repeat the propaganda as much as you want. But realize there 75,000,000 people who don’t view things the same.

Ostracizing them is not going to bring unity.

 

[Michael]

https://nypost.com/2020/12/08/bernie-sanders-admits-democrats-stalled-covid-19-relief/

“That’s right!” Sanders (I-Vt.) responded, confirming it was Democrats, not Republicans, who were to blame for months of inaction.
​

MATTHEWS: Nancy Pelosi admits why she stalled COVID relief bill, and it should outrage every American

Pelosi was questioned during the press briefing as to what made her suddenly change her mind. “What has shifted now, when they’re on board with this piece that’s come out of the Senate?”, asked one.

The House Speaker appeared agitated by the question. Making animated finger-pointing gestures, Pelosi admitted she wanted to wait until after the election when presumably Joe Biden would be declared the winner of the presidential race.
​

I just read both of those articles and the writers both *totally spun* what was actually stated.

In the first article, the original "debate" about the second stimulus package was over the size of the stimulus. The Democrats wanted a *larger* bill than Mnuchin and the Whitehouse (not the Senate mind you), that would do *more* for Covid relief, and the Whitehouse negotiators wouldn't do that.

Bernie lamented in that first article because in hindsight, it would have been a lot better to agree to the original offer from the Whitehouse, because the final 'bill' that was actually agreed to in the Senate was actually much *smaller* than what the Whitehouse was discussing originally. Why? Because the GOP in the *Senate* wouldn't even do what the President originally called for to start with!

With 20/20 hindsight, it would have indeed been much better to accept the original offer from the Whitehouse and let the President lean on the Senate to pass the Whitehouse offer because the original Whitehouse offer was *larger* than what the Senate ultimately agreed to. It would have setup a "conflict" between the Whitehouse and Senate and had the Whitehouse won that battle, it would probably have resulted in a better stimulus package. All of that is 20/20 hindsight however. The problem is that the Democrats wanted *more* relief than what either the Whitehouse wanted, or what the Senate would agree to. The smaller size of the final second stimulus package was directly related to the *Republican Senate* who would not even agree to what the Whitehouse had already agreed to and wanted. We saw the same problem play out when Trump asked to have the per person stimulus increased to 2000 per person. The GOP Senate *refused* to agree to it but the house *immediately* agreed to it and signed a bill the next day.

In retrospect there was no guarantee that the original Whitechouse proposal would have received Senate approval however, so it's all speculation at best case. The undeniable loss for the Democrats however is that they ended up getting *less* than the original offer, but that may have ended up being the case even if they had agreed to the original Whitehouse proposal because the Whitehouse and Senate tend to *conflict* over financial issues anyway.

Either way you look at it however, the Democrats wanted *more* help for US citizens and states than either the GOP Whitehouse *or* the GOP Senate.

The second article borders on pure slander. The writer completely twisted the meaning of Pelosi's comment. A reporter asked her:

“What has shifted now, when they’re on board with this piece that’s come out of the Senate?”

Note that by this time, much had changed, and things had become almost desperate due to the length of time that had passed without a stimulus, and we were far beyond the election by then. Her response to that question:

“Perhaps you missed what I said earlier,” she snapped at the reporter. “Joe Biden committed to ending and crushing the virus and having a Build Back Better America initiative. A vaccine — answer to our prayers, an answer to our prayers — of 95% effectiveness in terms of Pfizer and Moderna, and there may be others coming forward. That makes — that is a total game-changer: a new president and a vaccine.”

Her willingness to accept *anything* at that point was due to the fact that things were now *desperate* and she would be able to negotiate with a *new Democratic President* for *more* stimulus later on, so she was willing to get whatever she could get now, and negotiate with a new President later on.

The writer of that article *blatantly* twisted the meaning of her statement. We were *already a month past* the election, and she never stated that she dragged her feet until after the election with the express intent of making Trump look bad as the writer tried to claim.

The proof that this was *not* the case is that when Trump said he wouldn't sign the bill the Senate came up with unless it included a 2000 per person stimulus it was *Pelosi* and the Democrats who *agreed* with Trump and passed a bill immediately. The GOP Senate however *refused*.

There's no guarantee that the Senate would have even agreed to Trumps original offer either, but in retrospect it would have been "better" politically had the Democrats agreed to the earlier and bigger bill and let the Whitehouse fight the Senate. If they didn't agree to the Whitehouse's original offer, she could have publicly accused the GOP of not negotiating in good faith. That would have been a political win and made the GOP look bad. Maybe it would have resulted in a bigger second stimulus but maybe not.. Who knows?

 

[Michael]

Believe what you want, repeat the propaganda as much as you want. But realize there 75,000,000 people who don’t view things the same.

Ostracizing them is not going to bring unity.

Educating them however is *absolutely necessary* if there's going to be unity. I refuse to listen to all the GOP lies and nonsense and do nothing about it anymore. It's led to a *blatant* insurrection attempt by the GOP and people being killed in the Capitol building. Enough of the lies now. I'm sick and tired of it.

 

[hislegacy]

Educating them however is *absolutely necessary* if there's going to be unity. I refuse to listen to all the GOP lies and nonsense and do nothing about it anymore. It's led to a *blatant* insurrection attempt by the GOP and people being killed in the Capitol building. Enough of the lies now. I'm sick and tired of it.

Why is it, that the argument always comes down with the thought that there are 75,000,000 Voters who are just plain ignorant?

You want to know what they are sick and tired of - being lied to.

Until we can see the truth and the lies from BOTH parties neither side will be any less 'ignorant' that they are now.

We were lied to for two years about Russian collusion. I'm not going to rehash it, but the vast majority of what was broadcast endlessly was NOT the truth. Yet there are people who still believe it and support the purveyors of the misinformation and downright lies.

Please, be intellectually honest enough to address BOTH sides.

Has anyone answered why an Antifa organizer was there and arrested for his part in the destruction and violence?

If someone just cannot, I understand, but it becomes pointless trying to have a discussion on a subject when only one side is examined fully and without all the dramatics.

 

[Michael]

Why is it, that the argument always comes down with the thought that there are 75,000,000 Voters who are just plain ignorant?

Well, for starters they've been lied to for months, not only from their GOP *President* but also *hundreds* of GOP congressmen and Senators. With enough disinformation, it's certainly possible to confuse even the most intelligent people.

Even *after* 60 plus court cases all confirming the election results, and even *after* a justice department lead by Bill Barr, one of Trump's staunchest supporters investigated these various allegations and found no evidence of wide spread voter fraud, nearly 3/4th of Republican's *still* believe the election wasn't fair. Why? Because they've been consitently lied to by their "leaders", and their trust in those leaders is horribly misplaced.

You want to know what they are sick and tired of - being lied to.

Then why do they continue to believe those who have lied to them, including a guy who's lied over 20,000 times in four years?

Until we can see the truth and the lies from BOTH parties neither side will be any less 'ignorant' that they are now.

I agree. If we can't agree on the fact that we just had free and fair elections, how will we possibly achieve unity in this country? It's not possible unless and until we confront those lies head on and see them for what they are. Someone has to come to grips with the all the lies and nonsense about 'voter fraud', and it's not Democrats that have any problem with the outcome of this last election.

We were lied to for two years about Russian collusion.

True. There were in fact convictions related to Muller's investigation, but there was no compelling evidence that Trump himself colluded with Russia to rig the 2016 election, and I fully accept his report. The Russians however *did* try to sway the outcome of that election. Of course Trump himself also *asked* Russia to "find" Hillary's emails and praised WIKILEAKS, so it's not particularly surprising that the justice department investigated the issue.

I'm not going to rehash it, but the vast majority of what was broadcast endlessly was NOT the truth.

Even so, I don't hear a lot of Democrats claiming that the outcome of the 2016 election was "fraudulent" or claim that the election was stolen, or states violated the law, or claim that voting machines were rigged or any of the nonsense we're hearing from the GOP today.

Yet there are people who still believe it and support the purveyors of the misinformation and downright lies.

Sure. That's the problem when people tell lies. Some folks are gullible and they believe things which are not true. That's the danger of not dealing with the GOP lies that led to an insurrection attempt and people being killed in the Capitol.

Please, be intellectually honest enough to address BOTH sides.

I've got no problem with admitting that *both* sides have been guilty of lying. The significant difference however is that the Democrats didn't storm the US Capitol chanting Democratic lies and chanting "Hang Mike Pence".

Has anyone answered why an Antifa organizer was there and arrested for his part in the destruction and violence?

One guy? You're worried about *one* guy from Antifa? What about all those thousands of Trump supporters spewing false nonsense? The Antifa guy belongs in jail just like the rest of them. Who cares about one Antifa supporter?

If someone just cannot, I understand, but it becomes pointless trying to have a discussion on a subject when only one side is examined fully and without all the dramatics.

I don't support Antifa, but I have no idea if he was there based on his *own* motives, or whether he too believed the GOP lies and that was his motive too. Do you know his motive?

 

[Michael]

That is amazing! The Administration that worked with private sector companies to develop and effective vaccine faster than ever in history and now every state in the union is getting shipments did so without a roll out plan.

Sounds like Q’anon level information to me.

I guess in retrospect I can see how you took exception to that particular sentence. I specifically said "roll out plan" in reference to distributing the vaccine to the states and who would get the vaccine in what order, not in reference to the development of the vaccines.

You're absolutely right that Trump made an important, brave and very politically risky decision to pay to get the vaccines into production even *before* the final human testing was complete. Trump could not be certain that the human trials of the vaccines would go as planned, so it was not a certainty that the money he invested in early production would not be wasted. That was in fact a brave and intelligent decision on Trump's part. I think it was probably the best decision of his Presidency in fact. That decision shaved *months* off the development time, and saved thousands, if not tens of thousands of lives.

 

[SilverBear]

No debating, and no passing of anything. Nancy is STILL sitting on help for covid relief that she openly admitted to stalling because she didn't like the President. She is playing politics with our lives.

Here are the number of legislative days for the House and Senate each year in recent history:

• 2018: 174 in the House, 191 in the Senate.
• 2017: 192 in the House, 195 in the Senate.
• 2016: 131 in the House, 165 in the Senate.
• 2015: 157 in the House, 168 in the Senate.
• 2014: 135 in the House, 136 in the Senate.
• 2013: 159 in the House, 156 in the Senate.
• 2012: 153 in the House, 153 in the Senate.
• 2011: 175 in the House, 170 in the Senate.
• 2010: 127 in the House, 158 in the Senate.
• 2009: 159 in the House, 191 in the Senate.

2021 with the safest place in the US, highest levels of sanitation - from 191 in 2018 to 110 -

Why?

your numbers are off.

according to the schedule there are 101 days planned for votes and debates and another 59 planned for committee activity. That is 160 days making 2021 a very average year for the house. Of note is the addition of an extra 18 days of district work days over last years schedule.

 

[disciple Clint]

@hislegacy

Hmmm, I wonder if the House will simply bring back up some of the extensive legislation they already worked on at great length and passed in 2019, which the Senate at that time refused to even allow onto the floor.

That would be one way to "work on solving problems" -- to bring up some of the extensive work they did in the last year or 2.

Now that should tell us something, spending time on legislation that has no chance of being successful in the Senate is a waste of time, now the only question is why that is obvious to everyone except the people who are being paid to solve problems, note I am talking about solving problems not simply trying to find a way to get liberal programs passed because they advance the liberal agenda. Some of those problems could have been solved if there had not been a priority on resisting anything that made the conservatives or Trump look good. So the people suffer because it is more important to satisfy egos and political objectives.

 

[Halbhh]

Now that should tell us something, spending time on legislation that has no chance of being successful in the Senate is a waste of time, now the only question is why that is obvious to everyone except the people who are being paid to solve problems, note I am talking about solving problems not simply trying to find a way to get liberal programs passed because they advance the liberal agenda. Some of those problems could have been solved if there had not been a priority on resisting anything that made the conservatives or Trump look good. So the people suffer because it is more important to satisfy egos and political objectives.

The difference between now and 2019 (when the 'do-nothing' House Democrats in actually passed a lot of bills (regardless of whether we liked the bills)) is that Democrats now have the majority in the Senate -- unlike 2019.

Most say the reason the democrats won both races in Georgia is because Trump kept claiming the vote was rigged, and thus Trump defeated the republican incumbents in Georgia by suppressing some of the republican vote.

 

[Michael]

Most say the reason the democrats won both races in Georgia is because Trump kept claiming the vote was rigged, and thus Trump defeated the republican incumbents in Georgia by suppressing some of the republican vote.

I don't think the GOP even begins to understand how destructive Trump has been to their party. When he took office the GOP controlled *everything* at the federal level, House, Senate and the Whitehouse. Today they control nothing.

Every state certified their results. Trump lost over 60 court cases where he had every legal opportunity to present any serious evidence of voter fraud. Bill Barr publicly stated that the justice department investigated the issue and they found no evidence of wide spread voter fraud which would change the outcome of any state election. Yet even to this very day, more than 3/4 of the GOP *still* believes in the *outrageous* lies that Trump and the GOP leadership told them about "voter fraud" simply because a narcissistic wannabe dictator has been too immature and too self absorbed to accept his own defeat in a free and fair election.

Wow. The damage done to the GOP and to the Republic of the United States of America over the last four years has been *staggering*. I wouldn't have believed it if had I not seen it with my own eyes.

If the GOP doesn't convict Trump for his crimes and his *blatant* attempt at sedition, it will destroy itself, and it will take decades for it to recover if it *ever* fully recovers. The next few months will define and determine the fate of the GOP for at least the next decade. I sure hope they come to their senses soon, or there will be nothing left to salvage.