Astrology

[Tellyontellyon]

The wise men used astrology to predict the birth of Jesus and to find him... this is not condemned in the Bible.
What are your feelings about astrology, and can it be used by Christians today?

 

[Lost4words]

God gave us the stars for signs etc as mentioned in the Bible. For navigation etc etc.

Oh, and for me and my friends to sing to! Especially a full moon!

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Well in fairness astronomy and astrology were conflated back then.

In the Bible, there is the belief that "God created the Heavens to bring forth signs of the Times" etc. That however is much different than the belief in Astrology that the heavens actually dictate or influence your fate because of some kind of law of sympathetic magic, or they are deities and you are under their jurisdiction if you are born at the time they are in the sky etc.

 

[Michie]

Astrology is a load of hooey.

 

[PloverWing]

I think the story of the Magi is very interesting, for the reason you have said. Astrology is rubbish: the positions of the stars have nothing to do with the birth of kings, or the rise and fall of empires, or whether I will meet a handsome stranger. And yet, we are told that the Magi were guided by the star to find Jesus.

The story of the Magi is one of a group of people outside the Jewish faith who came to do homage to Jesus. The feast of Epiphany in the Christian calendar celebrates the revelation of Jesus to Gentiles -- people of the wide world outside of Judaism, who are nevertheless welcomed into Christianity.

What I see in this story is God working through the jumbled mess of beliefs in the Magi's heads to reveal God's self to them nonetheless. It gives me hope that God can touch anyone, no matter what their beliefs are. The Magi probably didn't even change their belief in astrology. Even so, they encountered God.

 

[Michie]

I tend to look at it as simple astronomy. They followed an event that appeared in the sky and followed it. Regardless of the things they practiced before. Take that along with the rumors of the day...which these things tend to use to validate their practices.

 

[Michie]

The Magi: Misconceptions and Mythicism

Did the Magi Use Astrology to Find Jesus?

 

[Ophiolite]

What are your feelings about astrology, and can it be used by Christians today?

Astrology is nonsense. It has some minor entertainment value, but is potentially dangerous if taken seriously. Thus no one, Christian or otherwise, should really give it the time of day. (Especially if Jupiter is rising in Gemini.)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Astrology is nonsense. It has some minor entertainment value, but is potentially dangerous if taken seriously. Thus no one, Christian or otherwise, should really give it the time of day. (Especially if Jupiter is rising in Gemini.)

Yes if you take it seriously... It will take you seriously... beware...

 

[Eloy Craft]

Astrology fulfilled it's purpose when it revealed the birth of Jesus.
It can predict life bound to the powers of nature. The powers that govern matter.
It can't predict human life that's free and guided by the Holy Spirit.

There are two spiritual communities.
The fallen angels are one of those.

They possess the powers God created them for as it regards governing matter.

Witchcraft, sorcery, pagan religions are material cultures that seek out a spiritual community and find spiritual goods.

The Church is a spiritual community that seeks out material cultures and finds material goods.

There are two spiritual communities.

 

[Ophiolite]

Yes if you take it seriously... It will take you seriously... beware...

Let me be clear Carl, as to the danger. It is always dangerous to take seriously and to base life decisions upon anything that is nothing but a chaotic mess of infantile nonsense. And astrology fits that description. I'm not sure if that was the same danger you thought might be there.

 

[Michie]

Let me be clear Carl, as to the danger. It is always dangerous to take seriously and to base life decisions upon anything that is nothing but a chaotic mess of infantile nonsense. And astrology fits that description. I'm not sure if that was the same danger you thought might be there.

It’s amazing what people fall for and invest in in this day and age.

 

[Ophiolite]

It’s amazing what people fall for and invest in in this day and age.

Unfortunately there is not universal agreement as to what constitutes the "amazing". Thus Creationists doubt the sanity of evolutionists, while evolutionists know the Creationists suffer from Dunning-Kruger.

 

[J_B_]

In the Bible, there is the belief that "God created the Heavens to bring forth signs of the Times" etc. That however is much different than the belief in Astrology that the heavens actually dictate or influence your fate because of some kind of law of sympathetic magic, or they are deities and you are under their jurisdiction if you are born at the time they are in the sky etc.

I like your distinction, though I expect critics will call it special pleading.

Another consideration is that not every sinful action in the Bible brings a fire and brimstone response from God. It is wrong to conclude that anything people in the Bible do where God doesn't immediately step in and explicitly condemn it means that action is OK. It could well be the Magi believed in astrology, and that played a role in their journey. If so, I hope the experience of the Christ child changed them - and maybe that's why God called them to come.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Let me be clear Carl, as to the danger. It is always dangerous to take seriously and to base life decisions upon anything that is nothing but a chaotic mess of infantile nonsense. And astrology fits that description. I'm not sure if that was the same danger you thought might be there.

Worse - it can lead to spiritual bondage...

 

[Eloy Craft]

It could well be the Magi believed in astrology, and that played a role in their journey. If so, I hope the experience of the Christ child changed them - and maybe that's why God called them to come.

I'll bet Herod's response confused them, I doubt they stopped looking at the life of Jesus. They are symbolic of the Gentiles.

 

[J_B_]

@Eloy Craft

I like your tag line ... at least in terms of what I interpret it to mean.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I like your distinction, though I expect critics will call it special pleading.

Another consideration is that not every sinful action in the Bible brings a fire and brimstone response from God. It is wrong to conclude that anything people in the Bible do where God doesn't immediately step in and explicitly condemn it means that action is OK. It could well be the Magi believed in astrology, and that played a role in their journey. If so, I hope the experience of the Christ child changed them - and maybe that's why God called them to come.

Well around Christmas time a few years ago, I blogged about the Magi and this sort of thing. This is what I said....


Contemplating the Coming of the Magi

Sometimes we Christians like to divide the World into neat little categories. We like to have “believer" and "unbeliever", "Christian" and "non-Christian" and so forth Sometimes however real life doesn’t conform to such simplistic thinking. Because in the Gospels for example "Those outside Israel" sometimes could be "Close to the Kingdom of God", while those that were of natural Israel and devoutly practiced the old religion had "hearts that are far from God".

A good example of that is the coming of the Magi in the gospels. Those folks were mostly likely Zoroastrians from the region of Nineveh, (if we take the testimony of later Church historians seriously). These people had a close connection to the Jews during the first time of Exile. Some people think of Zoroastrians as "pagans" but they really have more in common with Monotheists in their beliefs than the other people of the pagan world. When we think about them we should realize that in the early Scriptures not all the people of God came directly from Abraham's line. Every so often we encounter someone like Melchizedek or Job. Even Balam the prophet, before he became corrupt was seen as being a "prophet of God".

When we contemplate the Magi, we should not forget that Abraham himself came from their region a few millennia previously. In fact, the name Hebrew is said to derive from this culture. It comes from an ancient Akkadian or Proto-Aramaic word meaning “They that dwell beyond the River” (Euphrates).

We therefore should not be surprised why the events recorded in the Book of Jonah take place. We have sayings “what comes around goes around”. And that certainly is true with the Kingdom of God itself. Or as scripture says, in Ecclesiastes 11: 11 “Cast your bread upon the waters, for you will find it after many days.”

God who stands beyond Time itself knows all things. Besides being the place where the ancient Hebrews came from, he also knew it as a place that held great future promise for Christianity.

Isaiah 19: 23In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrians will come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians.


This is one of those prophesies that already has been at least partially fulfilled. For the Coptic Christians and Syriac Orthodox Christians have been worshiping Christ and been in Communion with each other for nearly two millennia.

It was the place that saint Thaddeus (aka Jude the apostle) later missionized and turned into an Apostolic See that stretched forth all the way to India and China, which lasted until the late middle ages and continues today (although greatly diminished). Besides that, this region has been the home of great saints like Isaac of Nineveh (Saint Isaac the Syrian).

It is of course this same region and the Christians that dwell therein that very much need our prayers. For they struggle everyday against persecution and genocide by Islamic Fundamentalist groups like ISIS.

 

[Eloy Craft]

@Eloy Craft

I like your tag line ... at least in terms of what I interpret it to mean.

Thanks! I'm sure you interpret it right.

A biblical example is Paul finding a measure of truth in Greek myth "the unknown god" and pointing it at Truth that happened, Although the rich mythology of other pagan religions were much easier to point to Christ if you ask me.

 

[splish- splash]

Is it confirmed though in the bible that the wise men were astrologers? I mean some people can give an estimate of the time, by simply looking at the position of the sun, but that doesn't mean that, they are astrologers. Astrologers operate under some power that cannot be from God. Look at Daniel 4, where the king gathered the magicians, enchanters, diviners, astrologers and the like, yet they could not help him, until Daniel was called.