“We Can’t Say Black Lives Matter Until We Say Unborn Lives Mather.

98cwitr

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How's that working for you, so far?

Abortion rates are down. More states are passing heartbeat bills, and SCOTUS is looking promising. With God's help, we can do it.
 
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Speedwell

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Not mine. God's. This is a moral relativism vs moral objectivism argument. If one does not believe God is then moral relativism is an easy pill to swallow. If one does believe God is it becomes much more difficult.
Not really. It's about why your God in particular.



Repeal Roe, constitutional amendment to protect a baby with a heart beat. MAP as a loophole solution for rape/incest/etc, criminalize abortion procedures as murder.
Right? So how are you going to do it? Most abortions these days are by pill, using pharmaceuticals legally available for other purposes and which the woman may already have on hand. What's your plan? To just execute those few you can catch and hope that it will have discouraging effect on the others?



The "movement" is nuanced and has a spectrum of opinions on the matter. You'd need to ask both the leaders of each org, and those involved.
I haven't seen much "nuance." For example,Texas lawmakers consider death penalty for women who get abortions





It's interrelated. No need to pigeonhole the argument.
It's best to soft-pedal that sort of thing. The pro-life movement already has a rep for not caring so much about dead babies as for using capital punishment to regulate the sex live of women.
 
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RDKirk

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If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? -- 1 John 4

If someone says they love the unborn, whom they cannot see, but is cold towards those already born who are right before them, that person is a liar.
 
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98cwitr

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Not really. It's about why your God in particular.

Because He is THE God...one and only.

Right? So how are you going to do it? Most abortions these days are by pill, using pharmaceuticals legally available for other purposes and which the woman may already have on hand. What's your plan? To just execute those few you can catch and hope that it will have discouraging effect on the others?

Murder still happens despite we have laws against it. There's no reason to assume that this would be different. Yet just because it still happens doesn't mean we legalize murder. Crimes need to be punished, and thus deterred. More importantly, mothers need to see their babies as what they are: human beings

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...death-penalty-women-who-get-abortions-n993171

Then I'm not sure you're looking for it. Mark Robinson (Lt. Gov - NC) said that he doesn't hold women who have abortions accountable because they've essentially been brainwashed into believing that their baby isn't really human. Ben Shapiro says the same thing.

It's best to soft-pedal that sort of thing. The pro-life movement already has a rep for not caring so much about dead babies as for using capital punishment to regulate the sex live of women.

Right, Genesis 9:6 is grounded in such a punishment for those convicted. Babies are innocent, murderers aren't. There's the contrast, and stark reality. There's not regulation on sex life. Being sexually immoral isn't a crime to man, but hiring a hitman to kill your own child should be.
 
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98cwitr

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But your sides isn't not caring about the born.

Not true at all. My "side" is Christ. Are we on the same side then, my sister? Our church is willing to help any woman in need if she is pregnant and alone.
 
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Desk trauma

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Abstain from sexual immorality...problem goes away with zero costs to anyone.

Do you have an example of that being put into practice and drastically reducing the abortion rate in a state? Because there is an example of providing free longterm birth control doing that.
 
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98cwitr

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Do you have an example of that being put into practice and drastically reducing the abortion rate in a state? Because there is an example of birth control provision doing that.

Your looking for a secular answer, framed in a secular context, which really requires a changing of individuals' mindsets. This is the real goal; to place the human nature, that is from God and of God, back on the unborn.

This is for parents to do with their children, for churches to do with their congregation, and for peers to encourage among their own. Bottomline, it's on us, not the state.
 
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Desk trauma

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Your looking for a secular answer, framed in a secular context, which really requires a changing of individuals' mindsets. This is the real goal; to place the human nature, that is from God and of God, back on the unborn.

This is for parents to do with their children, for churches to do with their congregation, and for peers to encourage among their own. Bottomline, it's on us, not the state.
Remove the state involvement and say that a private group is in charge of the program, do you have an example of the "just say no", abstinence, what have you program being implemented and showing a wide spread reduction in the abortion rate?
 
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BNR32FAN

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"Black lives matter" needs to be said because of systemic racism.

"Fetal lives matter" needs to be said because of another "ism". Some people do not see life in the womb as equal status to life beyond the womb. For lake of a better word, "anti-fetalist".
And yet, somehow "fetal" can dehumanize a bit. It is any mammal in the womb.

Anyway. Black lives, unborn lives, two very different "isms".

Nah “systematic racism” is just a term people resort to when there’s no actual racism to be found.
 
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98cwitr

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Remove the state involvement and say that a private group is in charge of the program, do you have an example of the "just say no", abstinence, what have you program being implemented and showing a wide spread reduction in the abortion rate?

The Church is that program. To get you that metric, we'd have to remove the Church and watch the results. God won't let that happen.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Don’t get me wrong I’m aware of what a terrible place America can be for black people.

I was more confused because the implication was if one problem is not addressed the other one should not be.

Why not both?

I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s any worse in America for blacks than it is for any other race in America.
 
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Desk trauma

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The Church is that program. To get you that metric, we'd have to remove the Church and watch the results. God won't let that happen.
Non answer is a non answer.

This is the thing that perpetually baffles me about many who oppose abortion. Things such as the Colorado program, that reduced teen abortion by 40%, are not looked at as best practices to be emulated because they do not line up with the sexual morals that go along with the opposition to abortion. Thousands of "murders" could be avoided but because they are not avoided in just the right way its useless.

Talk about the perfect being the enemy of the good.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Cite?

(Make BC free. Problem goes away.)

How would that work? Are the pharmaceutical companies going to give it away for free? Are their employees going to work for free. Are they going to somehow get their necessary materials and utilities for free? I don’t see how this would be a viable solution.
 
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durangodawood

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For other people:

John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 15:12
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

For children:

Isaiah 44:2
This is what the Lord says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 44:24
“This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

Thus;

Genesis 9:6

New International Version

6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.




Clear 1st Century church teaching to abstain from abortion:

Didache 2:1-2

And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, Exodus 20:13-14 you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, Exodus 20:15 you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is begotten
Yes there is a time when we many agree that a fetus in the womb has become a baby, a person. But before that, there's no agreement at all. I think most abortions take place well before a baby in the womb could leap for joy.
 
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durangodawood

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How would that work? Are the pharmaceutical companies going to give it away for free? Are their employees going to work for free. Are they going to somehow get their necessary materials and utilities for free? I don’t see how this would be a viable solution.
I think the state would pay.

Youd think people on all sides could get behind this, especially those who think this will literally prevent the killing of unborn children.
 
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How would that work? Are the pharmaceutical companies going to give it away for free? Are their employees going to work for free. Are they going to somehow get their necessary materials and utilities for free? I don’t see how this would be a viable solution.
What @durangodawood said.
 
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