Apocrypha and cross references from KJV

[A.ModerateOne]

While I recognize only the 66 books of the Scriptures as inspired, I find the Apocrypha to be of help from a historical standpoint, and in some ways similar to a commentary. But finding cross references to assist in study is difficult. I have found the following three sources good.

Cambridge prints a KJV with the Apocrypha and it is listed on Amazon as: "KJV Cameo Reference Bible with Apocrypha, Black Calfskin Leather, Red-Letter Text, KJ455:XRA Black Calfskin Leather". While it is pricey at $135, it is a beautiful, compact Bible and the only one I keep in the box when not studying. I also have the KJV with Apocrypha on e-sword so I'll show several cross references in Genesis from this reference edition:

Gen. 1:26 to -
For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity. (Wis 2:23)
Gen. 1:31 to -
All the works of the Lord are exceeding good, and whatsoever he commandeth shall be accomplished in due season. (Sir 39:16) [Ecclesiasticus or Sirach]
Gen. 2:11 to -
He filleth all things with his wisdom, as Phison and as Tigris in the time of the new fruits. (Sir 24:25)
Gen. 4:8 to -
But when the unrighteous went away from her in his anger, he perished also in the fury wherewith he murdered his brother. (Wis 10:3)
Gen. 5:24 to -
Enoch pleased the Lord, and was translated, being an example of repentance to all generations. (Sir 44:16)
Gen. 7:23 to -
For whose cause the earth being drowned with the flood, wisdom again preserved it, and directed the course of the righteous in a piece of wood of small value. (Wis 10:4)
Gen. 9:14 to -
Sir 43:11-12 Look upon the rainbow, and praise him that made it; very beautiful it is in the brightness thereof. (12) It compasseth the heaven about with a glorious circle, and the hands of the most High have bended it.

The 3-Vol. hardcopy Matthew Poole(1624-1679) Commentary has additional KJV Apocrypha references:

Gen. 1:20 to -
2Es 6:47 Upon the fifth day thou saidst unto the seventh part, where the waters were gathered that it should bring forth living creatures, fowls and fishes: and so it came to pass.
Gen. 2:7 to -
Sir 17:1 The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it again.
2Es 3:5 And gavest a body unto Adam without soul, which was the workmanship of thine hands, and didst breathe into him the breath of life, and he was made living before thee.
Gen. 2:17 to -
2Es 3:7 And unto him thou gavest commandment to love thy way: which he transgressed, and immediately thou appointedst death in him and in his generations, of whom came nations, tribes, people, and kindreds, out of number.
Gen. 2:18 to -
Sir 36:24 He that getteth a wife beginneth a possession, a help like unto himself, and a pillar of rest.

A third source of Apocrypha helps I've found are the Oxford Annotated Study Bibles in the RSV, NEB, NRSV & REB editions. The one I have at hand is The New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha, RSV, Copyright 1977, in which the Apocrypha is in the back of the Bible after the 66 inspired Scriptures, with an Index to the Apocrypha Annotations. The Oxford study Bibles do not have many cross references, but some are illuminating such as:

Gen. 1:3-5 to -
2Ma 7:28 I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed. Thus also mankind comes into being.

Not all sections of the OT have numerous Apocrypha references as this but these are illustrative. I pray this is helpful to some readers with an interest in the Apocrypha.

 

[Rene Loup]

I have only read some of the book of Enoch. For several of its chapters, I had the same reaction as Tyrion Lannister, "Is this bad poetry, or is this supposed to mean something?" The rest simply amounted to an elaborate fan fiction, based on four verses from the Book of Genesis.

In the Chinese bootleg market, there is such a thing as bootleg books. They are basically fan fictions marketed as canonical books of popular franchises, such as Harry Potter.[1][2][3]

Avoid apocrypha at all costs. You literally have NOTHING to gain by reading them. Even the Apostles and the early Christians were well aware of these false gospels. These were attempts, by man and fallen angel, to sabotage the Christian movement.[4]

Do NOT give these charlatans any credit by reading their work.

1. 11 Amazing Fake Harry Potter Books Written In China
2. Chinese Market Awash in Fake Potter Books (Published 2007)
3. BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Fake Harry Potter novel hits China
4. 2 Cor. 11:1-15, Gal. 1:6-10, Rev. 22:18-19

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Avoid apocrypha at all costs. You literally have NOTHING to gain by reading them. Even the Apostles and the early Christians were well aware of these false gospels. These were attempts, by man and fallen angel, to sabotage the Christian movement.[4]

I have only read some of the book of Enoch. For several of its chapters, I had the same reaction as Tyrion Lannister, "Is this bad poetry, or is this supposed to mean something?" The rest simply amounted to an elaborate fan fiction, based on four verses from the Book of Genesis.

In the Chinese bootleg market, there is such a thing as bootleg books. They are basically fan fictions marketed as canonical books of popular franchises, such as Harry Potter.[1][2][3]

Avoid apocrypha at all costs. You literally have NOTHING to gain by reading them. Even the Apostles and the early Christians were well aware of these false gospels. These were attempts, by man and fallen angel, to sabotage the Christian movement.[4]

That's a very ignorant position. And for the record what you call Apocrypha should be called Deuterocanonical books, unless the work is a book like Enoch is not found in most Christian Bibles (Only the Ethiopians have that one in their Canon).


1) The OP is right about their historical importance this is a fact that even the original Reformers realized. It is just plain weird reading the NT without knowing about books like Maccabees... I should know because that was my situation growing up. You have all these Biblical names like Judas that pop up that you don't understand where they came from since they are not in the regular OT and the other books aren't in your Bible etc.


2) Jesus cites the Deuterocanonical texts on a number of occasions, as do the apostles in some of the epistles. One pastor I knew decades ago covered the entire book of James during Wed night bible study. And one day covered the issue of prayer the book of James noted the passage about Elijah "prayed passionately" for the rain to stop in James 5:17. That it is a detail missed in the original text, but most likely passed on in the oral tradition around the text, but since the apostle quotes it, it is presumed to correct, but that citation comes from the Ecclesiasticus. And certain details like that can be important, aka sometimes we need to not just pray but pray passionately etc. Deuteronomy 6:5


3) The issue of Canonization within Judaism and Christianity is a lot more complex and varied than what most Evangelicals or Fundamentalists would assume (unless they actually bothered to take the time to study it).

During the time of Second temple Judaism (When the NT was being written), you had 3 different view points on what was considered sacred books among the Jews according to their faction as far as Sadducees, Pharisees, and Essenes. And within those groups their was a certain amount of variation. The Sadducees were unified on only seeing the Torah as Canonical, the Pharisees were largely about what we consider the traditional Jewish canon that was ratified later at Jamnia but they often read Maccabees and a few of the other Deuterocanonical books, while the Essenes had a Canon that was like the Catholic Bible, and often had scrolls of other non canonical works in their libraries.

 

[Rene Loup]

1) The OP is right about their historical importance this is a fact that even the original Reformers realized. It is just plain weird reading the NT without knowing about books like Maccabees... I should know because that was my situation growing up. You have all these Biblical names like Judas that pop up that you don't understand where they came from since they are not in the regular OT and the other books aren't in your Bible etc.

That is like gaining scientific knowledge from reading books about alchemy, phrenology, and naturopathy. The information is there, but is it really authentic?

How do you know the authenticity of these books?

Are you a trained theologian? If so, can you prove it?

2) Jesus cites the Deuterocanonical texts on a number of occasions, as do the apostles in some of the epistles.

This is like the chicken or the egg scenario, which truly came first? The teachings of Lord Jesus Christ have been around for 2,000 years. That is ample amounts of time to create elaborate forgeries and present them as authentic.

One scientific example is the Piltdown Man hoax, touted at the time as the missing link between man and ape. In reality, it was simply a 600 year old human skull combined with an orangutan's jaw.[1]

The concept of Pious Fraud also exists,[2] and it is condemned by Scripture.[3]

1. Piltdown man | anthropological hoax
2. What does pious fraud mean?
3. Prov. 6:16-19, Rev. 21:6-8, Rom. 3:7-8

 

[Gregorikos]

I have only read some of the book of Enoch. For several of its chapters, I had the same reaction as Tyrion Lannister, "Is this bad poetry, or is this supposed to mean something?" The rest simply amounted to an elaborate fan fiction, based on four verses from the Book of Genesis.

In the Chinese bootleg market, there is such a thing as bootleg books. They are basically fan fictions marketed as canonical books of popular franchises, such as Harry Potter.[1][2][3]

Avoid apocrypha at all costs. You literally have NOTHING to gain by reading them. Even the Apostles and the early Christians were well aware of these false gospels. These were attempts, by man and fallen angel, to sabotage the Christian movement.[4]

Do NOT give these charlatans any credit by reading their work.

1. 11 Amazing Fake Harry Potter Books Written In China
2. Chinese Market Awash in Fake Potter Books (Published 2007)
3. BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Fake Harry Potter novel hits China
4. 2 Cor. 11:1-15, Gal. 1:6-10, Rev. 22:18-19

The book of Enoch isn't in the Apocrypha in general use. It is only included in the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church. So if you had a KJV with Apocrypha, or a NRSV, etc, it wouldn't be in there.

And since you don't even know what you're rejecting, why do you feel your opinion will be valued?

 

[Gregorikos]

While I recognize only the 66 books of the Scriptures as inspired, I find the Apocrypha to be of help from a historical standpoint, and in some ways similar to a commentary. But finding cross references to assist in study is difficult. I have found the following three sources good.

Cambridge prints a KJV with the Apocrypha and it is listed on Amazon as: "KJV Cameo Reference Bible with Apocrypha, Black Calfskin Leather, Red-Letter Text, KJ455:XRA Black Calfskin Leather". While it is pricey at $135, it is a beautiful, compact Bible and the only one I keep in the box when not studying. I also have the KJV with Apocrypha on e-sword so I'll show several cross references in Genesis from this reference edition:

Gen. 1:26 to -
For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity. (Wis 2:23)
Gen. 1:31 to -
All the works of the Lord are exceeding good, and whatsoever he commandeth shall be accomplished in due season. (Sir 39:16) [Ecclesiasticus or Sirach]
Gen. 2:11 to -
He filleth all things with his wisdom, as Phison and as Tigris in the time of the new fruits. (Sir 24:25)
Gen. 4:8 to -
But when the unrighteous went away from her in his anger, he perished also in the fury wherewith he murdered his brother. (Wis 10:3)
Gen. 5:24 to -
Enoch pleased the Lord, and was translated, being an example of repentance to all generations. (Sir 44:16)
Gen. 7:23 to -
For whose cause the earth being drowned with the flood, wisdom again preserved it, and directed the course of the righteous in a piece of wood of small value. (Wis 10:4)
Gen. 9:14 to -
Sir 43:11-12 Look upon the rainbow, and praise him that made it; very beautiful it is in the brightness thereof. (12) It compasseth the heaven about with a glorious circle, and the hands of the most High have bended it.

The 3-Vol. hardcopy Matthew Poole(1624-1679) Commentary has additional KJV Apocrypha references:

Gen. 1:20 to -
2Es 6:47 Upon the fifth day thou saidst unto the seventh part, where the waters were gathered that it should bring forth living creatures, fowls and fishes: and so it came to pass.
Gen. 2:7 to -
Sir 17:1 The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it again.
2Es 3:5 And gavest a body unto Adam without soul, which was the workmanship of thine hands, and didst breathe into him the breath of life, and he was made living before thee.
Gen. 2:17 to -
2Es 3:7 And unto him thou gavest commandment to love thy way: which he transgressed, and immediately thou appointedst death in him and in his generations, of whom came nations, tribes, people, and kindreds, out of number.
Gen. 2:18 to -
Sir 36:24 He that getteth a wife beginneth a possession, a help like unto himself, and a pillar of rest.

A third source of Apocrypha helps I've found are the Oxford Annotated Study Bibles in the RSV, NEB, NRSV & REB editions. The one I have at hand is The New Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha, RSV, Copyright 1977, in which the Apocrypha is in the back of the Bible after the 66 inspired Scriptures, with an Index to the Apocrypha Annotations. The Oxford study Bibles do not have many cross references, but some are illuminating such as:

Gen. 1:3-5 to -
2Ma 7:28 I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed. Thus also mankind comes into being.

Not all sections of the OT have numerous Apocrypha references as this but these are illustrative. I pray this is helpful to some readers with an interest in the Apocrypha.

I'm curious as to how you access those xrefs in e-Sword. I can only access xrefs via TSK, which doesn't include the Deuterocanonicals.

Any pointers you could give me would be appreciated!

 

[Rene Loup]

The book of Enoch isn't in the Apocrypha in general use. It is only included in the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church. So if you had a KJV with Apocrypha, or a NRSV, etc, it wouldn't be in there.

And since you don't even know what you're rejecting, why do you feel your opinion will be valued?

How do YOU know what you are accepting? Why do YOU feel your opinion will be valued?

None of us win by being 'right', we all win by exchanging ideas, learning from them, and growing in Christ-like character.

And for the record, I did NOT specifically say I read the book of Enoch from the KJV Bible. I read it on the internet.

What you just did could be classified as mind-reading, a cognitive distortion.[1]

1. Cognitive Distortions: 10 Examples of Distorted Thinking

 

[Gregorikos]

How do YOU know what you are accepting? Why do YOU feel your opinion will be valued?

None of us win by being 'right', we all win by exchanging ideas, learning from them, and growing in Christ-like character.

Because I've read it, and thus am qualified to have an opinion on it.

 

[Rene Loup]

Because I've read it, and thus am qualified to have an opinion on it.

And I have also done reading, so I am allowed to give my own opinion.

No one needs to be 'qualified' to have an opinion. One needs to be qualified for educating others, claiming it is fact. Opinion is NOT fact.

 

[A.ModerateOne]

I'm curious as to how you access those xrefs in e-Sword. I can only access xrefs via TSK, which doesn't include the Deuterocanonicals.

Any pointers you could give me would be appreciated!

My fault, Gregorikos, I did not make myself clear. I was accessing the references from the Cambridge KJV Bible and the Matthew Poole Commentary, not from e-sword. I was copying the actual Apocryphal texts from e-sword. I do find I can do Apocryphal word or phrase searches from the KJVa, RSVa and NRSVa, that I have on the e-sword, but there are no xrefs as you say, as in the TSK. By the way, I ignore people such as the foolish troll.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

That is like gaining scientific knowledge from reading books about alchemy, phrenology, and naturopathy. The information is there, but is it really authentic?

How do you know the authenticity of these books?

Are you a trained theologian? If so, can you prove it?

This is the most silly argument I have read in some time. Not having a general knowledge of the Deuterocanonical book and reading the NT is literally like studying a subject like contemporary US History, US Political Science, Constitutional law and Philosophy but not having actually read about the previous centuries of all the stuff that happened with the Pilgrims, Founding Fathers, Civil War and Western Expansion to World War I, that influenced it and motivated people wanting to do X and Y.

 

[Rene Loup]

If my ideas are considered dubious, then AT LEAST take these apocrypha books with a GRAIN OF SALT.

Definition of APOCRYPHA

 

[Gregorikos]

And I have also done reading, so I am allowed to give my own opinion.

No one needs to be 'qualified' to have an opinion. One needs to be qualified for educating others, claiming it is fact. Opinion is NOT fact.

Well sure, you can have an opinion even if you're not qualified to have one. That just means you're guessing.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

If my ideas are considered dubious, then AT LEAST take these apocrypha books with a GRAIN OF SALT.

I'm afraid your 2000 years too late, based on the behavior of the NT writers.

http://jimmyakin.com/deuterocanonical-references-in-the-new-testament

 

[Rene Loup]

This is the most silly argument I have read in some time. Not having a general knowledge of the Deuterocanonical book and reading the NT is literally like studying a subject like contemporary US History, US Political Science, Constitutional law and Philosophy but not having actually read about the centuries of all the stuff that happened that preceded it, that influenced it and motivated people wanting to do X and Y.

For historical value, I would say you might have a point. When it comes to building one's Christian faith, however, I have to disagree with you completely.

Also, may I request you stop using the Appeal to Ridicule fallacy.[1] Please debate me like an equal, a human being made in the image of God, just like you.[2]

I forgive you for those kind of statements. NEVER make an honest discussion or debate personal. Remember: People on this forum are watching and we all need to be proper witnesses for Christ.

1. Appeal To Ridicule - Definition & Examples | LF
2. James 4:1-12, Matt. 10:14-17, 12:22-37, 2 Tim. 2:14-26, 4:1-8, Titus 3:9-11, 1 Pet. 3:8-22, Prov. 10:6-14, 26:4-12, Rom. 14

Well sure, you can have an opinion even if you're not qualified to have one. That just means you're guessing.

I have done other forms of research on this subject. I have also had discussions about it with my spiritual mentor, whom is more than twice my age.

Please provide a better argument instead of attacking my disclosed credentials.[1]

1. https://www.logicalfallacies.org/fallacy.html?fallacy=Ad+Hominem

 

[Gregorikos]

Please provide a better argument instead of attacking my disclosed credentials.[1]

1. Ad Hominem - Definition & Examples | LF

Respectfully and all, it isn't ad hominem to point out that it's pretty shallow for you to have an opinion about a book you never read, because somebody else has an opinion on it and he told you what to think about it. And we don't know if he read it either.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

For historical value, I would say you might have a point. When it comes to building one's Christian faith, however, I have to disagree with you completely.

Also, may I request you stop using the Appeal to Ridicule fallacy.[1] Please debate me like an equal, a human being made in the image of God, just like you.[2]

I forgive you for those kind of statements. NEVER make an honest discussion or debate personal. Remember: People on this forum are watching and we all need to be proper witnesses for Christ.

1. Appeal To Ridicule - Definition & Examples | LF
2. James 4:1-12, Matt. 10:14-17, 12:22-37, 2 Tim. 2:14-26, 4:1-8, Titus 3:9-11, 1 Pet. 3:8-22, Prov. 10:6-14, 26:4-12, Rom. 14

Lupe. I'm not trying to Ad Hominen but some positions are just not well founded and sometimes you have to point that out, especially when they are not founded in things like historical fact etc. And quiet frankly at the start of this thread your position was implying that the Deuterocanonical books were garbage which is not a position that the writers of the NT seem to have if you click on the link I provided above and look at the various citations.


As far as your own position as far as doctrine etc. goes I'm fine with that. I was raised Protestant and tend to read the shorter canon myself since if you want to quote something etc. its better to quote from something everybody accepts, and quite frankly a lot of the Deuterocanonical books verses often are paraphrases and repeats other verses in the OT so most of the time I stick to the shorter canon out of habit, utility etc.

 

[Rene Loup]

Then I hope I have at least given all observers of this topic some food for thought.

Take care, stay safe, and God bless!

 

[GreekOrthodox]

While I recognize only the 66 books of the Scriptures as inspired, I find the Apocrypha to be of help from a historical standpoint, and in some ways similar to a commentary. But finding cross references to assist in study is difficult. I have found the following three sources good.

Not all sections of the OT have numerous Apocrypha references as this but these are illustrative. I pray this is helpful to some readers with an interest in the Apocrypha.

The Eastern church calls them Anagignoskomena, or "worthy of being read." Our official Old Testament text is not the Masoretic / Hebrew but the Greek Septuagint, which is what most of the Jews outside of Israel would have been using. In the Eastern church, there are a few pieces of books that get used liturgically such as the Prayer of Mannasseh, which is read in full in the service of the Great Compline (late evening). There is a reading from Baruch in the Christmas Eve evening liturgy. As I recall there are a few other scattered readings. As a Greek Orthodox Psalti (or chanter), part of my responsibilities would be to assemble the services throughout the year. Although at this point, most everything is printed by some printing house. However, I still need to know how to do it.

The list is published in the 85th Canon of Trullo (692) but originates from a 4th century list: Let the following books be esteemed venerable and holy by you, both of the clergy and laity. Of the Old Covenant: the five books of Moses—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; one of Joshua the son of Nun, one of the Judges, one of Ruth, four of the Kings, two of the Chronicles, two of Ezra, one of Esther, one of Judith, three of the Maccabees, one of Job, one hundred and fifty psalms; three books of Solomon—Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Songs; sixteen prophets. And besides these, take care that your young persons learn the Wisdom of the very learned Sirach.

I have two versions with these books, the Jerusalem Bible (Roman Catholic) and the Oxford Annotated which you reference. The JB has probably the same cross references as the Oxford. The NT does reference some parts of these books. One that come to mind are John 10:22-23, “And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.” This is a direct reference to Hanukkah which is recorded in 1 Maccabees 4, "Then Judas and his brothers and all the assembly of Israel determined that every year at that season the days of dedication of the altar should be observed with joy and gladness for eight days, beginning with the twenty-fifth day of the month of Chislev."

 

[Gregorikos]

The Eastern church calls them Anagignoskomena, or "worthy of being read." Our official Old Testament text is not the Masoretic / Hebrew but the Greek Septuagint, which is what most of the Jews outside of Israel would have been using. In the Eastern church, there are a few pieces of books that get used liturgically such as the Prayer of Mannasseh, which is read in full in the service of the Great Compline (late evening). There is a reading from Baruch in the Christmas Eve evening liturgy. As I recall there are a few other scattered readings. As a Greek Orthodox Psalti (or chanter), part of my responsibilities would be to assemble the services throughout the year. Although at this point, most everything is printed by some printing house. However, I still need to know how to do it.

The list is published in the 85th Canon of Trullo (692) but originates from a 4th century list: Let the following books be esteemed venerable and holy by you, both of the clergy and laity. Of the Old Covenant: the five books of Moses—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; one of Joshua the son of Nun, one of the Judges, one of Ruth, four of the Kings, two of the Chronicles, two of Ezra, one of Esther, one of Judith, three of the Maccabees, one of Job, one hundred and fifty psalms; three books of Solomon—Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Songs; sixteen prophets. And besides these, take care that your young persons learn the Wisdom of the very learned Sirach.

I have two versions with these books, the Jerusalem Bible (Roman Catholic) and the Oxford Annotated which you reference. The JB has probably the same cross references as the Oxford. The NT does reference some parts of these books. One that come to mind are John 10:22-23, “And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.” This is a direct reference to Hanukkah which is recorded in 1 Maccabees 4, "Then Judas and his brothers and all the assembly of Israel determined that every year at that season the days of dedication of the altar should be observed with joy and gladness for eight days, beginning with the twenty-fifth day of the month of Chislev."

The Jerusalem Bible has fewer books than the New Oxford Annotated Bible because the JB uses the RCC canon. So for instance III and IV Macabees are among thos missing from the JB.