Discussion Why I do not believe you can accurately prophesy about an election.

[hislegacy]

Depends on what the results of exposing corruption might be.

i would not hold my breath with the Dems holding both houses, the justice department and the whitehouse

 

[lismore]

What say the prophets this morning.

Not throwing a dig, or anything other than an inquiry.

Hello legacy. The only suggestion I would make is that if there have been false prophecies from false prophets to not be ensnared in their world again. If God's people keep tuning in to listen to the new spin and the new prophecies from these people then they're still ensnared. We should never forget the words of our Lord:

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Remember that the Lord also acts to unmask these wolves, how many have just been unmasked? As the scripture says false prophets should be marked and avoided. God Bless

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It's really simple from my vantage.

God has never intervened in human will. If He could, we would be living in lives with a whole lot less sin. If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. I've read that some where.

That reality stops prevents Divine Intervention in an election. Because who the person votes for is an act of their free will. If God cannot get you to walk away from that sin that you battle daily, how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

So why did so many prophesy? I think it was a heart cry, not a heavenly message.

In general, from a prophetic stand point, the governments are beasts.

The messenger of the beast speaks against God.

In terms of US election and the motivations of God when He is directly speaking in scripture - a good question is, do either of the parties actually benefit the poor and needy?

If this is not the case, then the nation is like sodom and gommorrah who were wealthy and had lots of food, but didn't care for the needy from within their borders.

Those who align themselves with the beast become prophets of the beast, and to facilitate this prophetic convention - God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie as the scripture says.

Prophecy indeed still happens, but as is taught in the New testament - we must not despise prophesying - keep what is good, and throw away even the appearance of evil.

Since we in Christ are the new humanity, regressing back to the order of the beast causes creation to miss out on the benefit we could actually provide as a group of redeemed people.

 

[hislegacy]

In general, from a prophetic stand point, the governments are beasts.

The messenger of the beast speaks against God.

In terms of US election and the motivations of God when He is directly speaking in scripture - a good question is, do either of the parties actually benefit the poor and needy?

If this is not the case, then the nation is like sodom and gommorrah who were wealthy and had lots of food, but didn't care for the needy from within their borders.

Those who align themselves with the beast become prophets of the beast, and to facilitate this prophetic convention - God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie as the scripture says.

Prophecy indeed still happens, but as is taught in the New testament - we must not despise prophesying - keep what is good, and throw away even the appearance of evil.

Since we in Christ are the new humanity, regressing back to the order of the beast causes creation to miss out on the benefit we could actually provide as a group of redeemed people.

I find it interesting that during the very heights of Paul’s persecution from a corrupt government and his imprisonments he stated we should submit ourselves to the government. Further more he waged no warfare spiritual or otherwise, made no mention of beasts.

Peter and John when threatened by the government to preach no more in Jesus name only asked for signs and wonders to happen.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I find it interesting that during the very heights of Paul’s persecution from a corrupt government and his imprisonments he stated we should submit ourselves to the government. Further more he waged no warfare spiritual or otherwise, made no mention of beasts.

Peter and John when threatened by the government to preach no more in Jesus name only asked for signs and wonders to happen.

I find Paul's statement to the Romans to respect governing authorities, does not mean to align with them.

That's taking one aspect of the teachings too far at the expense of other things said elsewhere.

 

[Francis Drake]

I find it interesting that during the very heights of Paul’s persecution from a corrupt government and his imprisonments he stated we should submit ourselves to the government. Further more he waged no warfare spiritual or otherwise, made no mention of beasts.

Peter and John when threatened by the government to preach no more in Jesus name only asked for signs and wonders to happen.

You have no basis for claiming Paul waged no spiritual warfare on the demonic powers over Rome (or Israel). His instructions to the church on spiritual warfare would be completely hypocritical if he didn't apply to himself.

But just like Jeremiah, Paul was a prophet and knew that Israel was under judgement for its rejection of their messiah, therefore he would not be praying for their deliverance, but more likely advising them to flee from the wrath to come on Jerusalem.

Jer7v16“Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them, nor make intercession to Me; for I will not hear you.

Jer11v14“So do not pray for this people, or lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not hear them in the time that they cry out to Me because of their trouble.

Jer14v11Then the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for this people, for their good. 12When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I will not accept them. But I will consume them by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.”

The starting point for all prophetic intercessors, both then and today, is having an ear to the Holy Spirit, otherwise we will find ourselves praying for things the Lord has no intention of doing.

 

[hislegacy]

You have no basis for claiming Paul waged no spiritual warfare on the demonic powers over Rome (or Israel).

you mean besides the simple fact it is shown nowhere in scripture?

combined with Paul’s arrest had zero to do with judgement of Israel.

now read Acts 4. Peter and John threatened and released. They go home and pray.

Acts 4:29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

 

[Francis Drake]

you mean besides the simple fact it is shown nowhere in scripture?

You've got to be joking.
Do you seriously believe that Paul commanded the saints to engage in spiritual warfare, when he didn't engage the same himself?

 

[hislegacy]

You've got to be joking.
Do you seriously believe that Paul commanded the saints to engage in spiritual warfare, when he didn't engage the same himself?

show me one instance, one pray in the New Testament where the persons praying did any kind of warfare.

The spiritual warfare sect becomes popular about every 20 years and then slowly fades away ..

Remember when there were such errant teaching as:

warring tongues
Breaking generational curses
Vomiting up demons
Boarding planes and praying to war in the heavens
Traveling with black pots and praying against generational spirits of slavery

and such silliness.

 

[hislegacy]

Curiously, odd you believe Dutch Sheets was called by God to Washington this week along with Michael, the warrior angel?

 

[Francis Drake]

Remember when there were such errant teaching as:
Boarding planes and praying to war in the heavens
Traveling with black pots and praying against generational spirits of slavery

You are just presenting foolish straw man arguments.
I've been involved in spiritual warfare for many decades and, apart from generational spirits of slavery, I've never heard of the above.

warring tongues
Breaking generational curses
Vomiting up demons
and such silliness.

By calling them silly, you are just exposing your naivety. These things are very real.

Warring tongues.
When you speak in tongues, it comes straight from the spirit without being filtered by the intellect. As such tongues are extremely powerful when doing deliverance from demons, or warfare in the heavenly realm.
I have witnessed the downfall of mighty demonic strongholds through such prayer.

Generational curses.
Demons can travel down the family line through many generations, and I have cast out countless demons from people whose ancestors gave entry to those demons.
In many occasions, the root cause was revealed by a word of knowledge that was confirmed by the person being prayed for, or confirmed when they were delivered of the demons.

Vomiting up demons.
Evil 'spirits# are just what the name says, spirits, breaths or winds. As such when they are commanded to leave, spirits frequently come out as wind, heavy exhalation, or even burps. On occasions the deliverance produces involuntary stomach heaving or possible vomiting, ie. bile comes out at the same time the spirits vacate.

 

[tturt]

"And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." Mark 9

"And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded." Acts 19:14-16

 

[Optimus Fortis]

I read the story of Balaam yesterday. He experienced the supernatural work of God to a degree that I can only dream of but yet he crossed the line into soothsaying.

 

[Francis Drake]

I read the story of Balaam yesterday. He experienced the supernatural work of God to a degree that I can only dream of but yet he crossed the line into soothsaying.

Great policy, smearing by association!

 

[hislegacy]

I've been involved in spiritual warfare for many decades and, apart from generational spirits of slavery, I've never heard of these.

I am confused, first you said you had not heard of warring tongues, vomiting up demons and generational curses - then post things to support them.

You provided no links to the statements, nor any scriptural support so I cannot comment on the veracity of what you posted beyond letting readers know they are, IMHO, errant teaching which thankfully, no longer practiced except in very small groups.

 

[hislegacy]

Returning to the OP:

It's really simple from my vantage.

God has never intervened in human will. If He could, we would be living in lives with a whole lot less sin. If He could, everyone would choose Jesus as Lord and Savior. God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. I've read that some where.

That reality stops prevents Divine Intervention in an election. Because who the person votes for is an act of their free will. If God cannot get you to walk away from that sin that you battle daily, how can He possibly make someone who isn't even a believer vote a certain way?

So why did so many prophesy? I think it was a heart cry, not a heavenly message.

1 Sam 8 is a great chapter showing an example of what I am referring to. The people of Israel wanted a King to rule over them, God in no way wanted that, but recognized that he could not change their will, so He warned them what would happen and then:

1 Sam 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, “No, but we will have a king over us, 20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.” 21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the Lord. 22 So the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed their voice, and make them a king.”
​

God did not circumvent the will of the people re who they wanted as a political leader then, and He does not change. He will not do so today either.

That is one of the reasons why you cannot accurately prophesy the outcome of an election.

 

[Francis Drake]

I am confused, first you said you had not heard of warring tongues, vomiting up demons and generational curses - then post things to support them.

I was referring to the previous items. That's why I split your list.

You provided no links to the statements, nor any scriptural support so I cannot comment on the veracity of what you posted beyond letting readers know they are, IMHO, errant teaching which thankfully, no longer practiced except in very small groups.

Why should I provide links to my statements, when they relate to things I have regularly been involved with for maybe 40 years.
I also know they are part of the armoury of most Christians involved in spiritual warfare or deliverance.
So to claim they are no longer practiced is just ignorance of the facts.

Tellme, have you ever done any deliverance?

 

[Francis Drake]

1 Sam 8 is a great chapter showing an example of what I am referring to. The people of Israel wanted a King to rule over them, God in no way wanted that, but recognized that he could not change their will, so He warned them what would happen and then:

1 Sam 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, “No, but we will have a king over us, 20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.” 21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the Lord. 22 So the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed their voice, and make them a king.”
​

God did not circumvent the will of the people re who they wanted as a political leader then, and He does not change. He will not do so today either.

That passage (one of my favourites) wasn't about "who they wanted as a political leader".
They wanted a king, any king, so they could be like the nations around them, despite God saying they were not to be anything like those nations.
They had no idea who the king would be.

That is one of the reasons why you cannot accurately prophesy the outcome of an election.

There is absolutely nothing in that scripture to indicate God would not reveal to the prophets who a future king or president might be. In fact scripture repeatedly proves that very thing.

And as I have said here several times, back in 2007 when praying for the USA elections, God said,"The Lord has his Trump card!"
Not having a TV, plus being British, I had never heard of Trump,but as always with prophetic words, I wrote it in my journal, where it stayed till 2016 when Trump started his campaign.

That's why I know that Trump was anointed by the Lord for the presidency.

 

[hislegacy]

I was referring to the previous items. That's why I split your list.

Why should I provide links to my statements, when they relate to things I have regularly been involved with for maybe 40 years.
I also know they are part of the armoury of most Christians involved in spiritual warfare or deliverance.
So to claim they are no longer practiced is just ignorance of the facts.

Tellme, have you ever done any deliverance?

I answered this here: Discussion - Spiritual Warfare

 

[hislegacy]

That passage (one of my favourites) wasn't about "who they wanted as a political leader".
They wanted a king, any king, so they could be like the nations around them, despite God saying they were not to be anything like those nations.
They had no idea who the king would be.

A king is their equivalent of a political leader. There was no Democracy at this point in history.

The verses clearly show it was NOT Gods will for a king to be placed and yet because of the people’s will, God gave them their King..

If God would not interfere with their will then, He will not interfere with mans will today..