Could America be inching closer to civil war?

[Hazelelponi]

This is not correct. Virginia has laws against wearing a mask in public (imagine that!), but these laws have no affect on the legality of carrying a gun.

In normal times they have much bearing on the legality of carrying a firearm... you can't conceal your identity (by masking) while carrying a firearm.

That said, the fact that masking is under emergency order sheriffs are saying it's an exemption and you can still carry concealed as a licensed carrier (my husband is)

Most people don't trust that the emergency order serves as an exemption to the law.. people who carry have firearm laws memorized because they are law abiding so these laws matter to them and it's hard to tell them they are now exempt from following the law without striking the law down.

 

[RDKirk]

Doesn't change the fact that Israel are God's chosen people and that we should bless them as they bless us. There wouldn't be salvation at all anywhere without the Jewish people and we all have Jewish roots whether we were descended from Abraham or not.

Jews are God's chosen people. He may or may not support the state of Israel. He's withdrawn His support of the state of Israel before. He may not recognize this man-made state that was created by Britain and the US.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

...he should be removed from office immediately and prosecuted.

If an incoming president immediately jails his political opponents, then we just might have a civil war on our hands. You don't do that.

 

[RDKirk]

If an incoming president immediately jails his political opponents, then we just might have a civil war on our hands. You don't do that.

There needs to be some investigation and prosecution of whoever tossed the ball on properly protecting the Capitol building. We certainly didn't see the rigor applied yesterday that we saw in June at Lafayette Park or any other time or place in Washington DC.

The Capitol police recorded video opening doors, patting invaders on the back, taking selfies with invaders...they all need to be prosecuted for dereliction of duty.

We do know that new SecDef Christopher Miller turned down the DC mayor's request for deployment of the DC national guard for that day. That needs to be investigated.

 

[Darkhorse]

In normal times they have much bearing on the legality of carrying a firearm... you can't conceal your identity (by masking) while carrying a firearm.

That said, the fact that masking is under emergency order sheriffs are saying it's an exemption and you can still carry concealed as a licensed carrier (my husband is)

Most people don't trust that the emergency order serves as an exemption to the law.. people who carry have firearm laws memorized because they are law abiding so these laws matter to them and it's hard to tell them they are now exempt from following the law without striking the law down.

I also carry a firearm, and, as you say, I stay informed about the relevant laws.

I live in Virginia, and when the wearing of masks became required, many concealed carriers became concerned that they were now in violation of the law (by wearing a mask while carrying). Legal experts determined that they were not in violation, because regular, everyday Virginia law does not connect wearing a mask with carrying a gun. The law forbids wearing a mask in public, gun or no gun.

The emergency-order exemption allows wearing a mask in public, but has no effect on anything regarding guns, since the original law does not affect carrying a gun.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I also carry a firearm, and, as you say, I stay informed about the relevant laws.

I live in Virginia, and when the wearing of masks became required, many concealed carriers became concerned that they were now in violation of the law (by wearing a mask while carrying). Legal experts determined that they were not in violation, because regular, everyday Virginia law does not connect wearing a mask with carrying a gun. The law forbids wearing a mask in public, gun or no gun.

The emergency-order exemption allows wearing a mask in public, but has no effect on anything regarding guns, since the original law does not affect carrying a gun.

My husband has always thought it did, and the sheriff here thought it did as well, but determined the governors orders to be an exemption to the law...

However, since I'm neither from here nor carry a firearm, this isn't actually a discussion I'm fully informed on. I just know what others say, like hubby and our sheriff since I was there for the convo....

But I'll have to drop it. Out of curiosity I may ask hubby more though..

(I'm strictly non-violent, with exception for hunting..I couldn't shoot another person even in self defense I dont think, so I don't carry.)

 

[Darkhorse]

My husband has always thought it did, and the sheriff here thought it did as well, but determined the governors orders to be an exemption to the law...

With all due respect to law-enforcement officers, their knowledge of the law is often lacking.

 

[Hazelelponi]

With all due respect to law-enforcement officers, their knowledge of the law is often lacking.

Yeah no one's perfect... if they were it would be a perfect world!

 

[RDKirk]

Yeah no one's perfect... if they were it would be a perfect world!

Except that the law is supposed to be what they're enforcing...it's their job.

 

[9Rock9]

If what happens is what I think may happen, political suicide will be irrelevant----when we come out the other side of this period, there won't be any GOP....or any Democrats, either.

I think things are going to get very, very ugly in this country in the coming few months....I think the Capitol incident was merely the first shot fired on Ft. Sumter. I think this thing is going to gain steam, spread, and rapidly become completely uncontrollable. People have been putting up with this garbage from their politicians for decades, and I think we just went past a tipping point.

As the man said in the old movie "Network", "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!!!" This has been building for years---and I think it's leaking rage---and any minute now, it's gonna blow. Heaven alone only knows what things will look like once the dust settles.

I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think I am.

I see a debate coming where some people are going to point to the MAGA movement as why we need compromise and reform, or else they become angrier and stronger. The other side will say, "See? I told you they were fascists and white supremacists! Why shouldn't we suppress them?"

I foresee a split within the Democratic Party, where progressives leave and form their own party, and small government conservatives disappointed with the GOP start a new party.

 

[Wolseley]

Meaning?

Meaning I think we might very well be moving into a period of such upheaval and conflict, that every institution we have is going to be radically cleansed---if not destroyed. The old fossils in Washington will be swept away, and the political parties as we know them will crumble and cease to exist. This is way overdue---and it could have been accomplished gradually and peacefully if it hadn't been for the greed and corruption of both political parties who have manipulated the system for decades in order to maintain their grip on power.

Who do you think fired this first shot?

I give you a direct quote from one of our more distinguished Congressional cockroaches:

“Some Republicans, including members of their leadership, have said they cannot support the vile rhetoric and radical proposals of the Republican front-runner; today, we have gathered to ask, since when? Since when have House Republicans been so concerned about intolerant statements and discriminatory ideas? I think we’ve had our fun. Now let’s get serious.” (Nancy Pelosi, May 11, 2016)

Nancy Pelosi dismisses Donald Trump's candidacy: 'We've had our fun' (cnn.com)

If you wanted a better candidate for who fired the first shot, you couldn't do better than this woman. She has done everything in her power to attempt to destroy a sitting president for four solid years. She and her gang lost in 2016, and they've made absolutely sure that they wouldn't lose again, even if it required breaking every law in the book and committing massive election fraud. Does it sound like I believe in a vast, Democratically-run conspiracy to rig this last election? You bet your sweet bippy I do.

The culture wars are deep and profound, but the Capitol Invasion is something that was directly incited by the US President. Since he will be removed in a matter of days (Jan 20th at latest) that factor will also be eliminated. So regarding how the Republican party handle the loss of both houses and the presidency when they no longer have power will be the real test here. When it is no longer a matter of political expediency to support Trump how many republicans will recognise the lie. So too early to say, but that Republicans are so vulnerable to mass delusion and great deceivers is a strong reason for their removal from power.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that there are millions of Americans who still think this election was a fraud, and who oppose Biden and the radical Democrat agenda. Trump might go away, but those millions are not. And sooner or later, they're going to have to be dealt with.

With all due respect to law-enforcement officers, their knowledge of the law is often lacking.

Especially when it comes to firearm laws. There are dozens of YouTube videos showing cops going bonkers when they spot a citizen with a firearm and putting the citizen spread-eagled onto the pavement because they're absolutely certain that the citizen must be up to some nefarious mischief, with the citizen calmly asking, "Have I violated any laws? Why am I being detained?", and the cop trying to tell him that he's not permitted to carry a gun for reasons X, Y, and Z, only to have the citizen calmly instructing the cop in what the law actually says. Sooner or later, a supervisor will show up, and call the cop off, explain to him that he cannot detain this individual, apologize to the citizen, and let him go on his way.

 

[GDL]

Meaning I think we might very well be moving into a period...

Thanks for the response. Understood.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Could America be inching closer to civil war?



What worries me about this article is Trump lost and the man and many republicans are fighting this hard. What scares me about Trump is he wants to be king an know one seems to care.

I think a lot of people care but it is difficult to separate Trump away from the concerns and issues.
Dictators take over legitimate concerns and come with extreme dictatorial solutions.

They create smoke screens to hide their real intentions, and when finally disclosed it is too late.
The invasion of the Capitol yesterday and Trumps support for the action shows his true intent.

Until someone obviously steps over the line it is hard to pin them down. The impeachment trial attempted to do this, but partisan politics stopped it working. This time things will change.
With a majority in congress and the senate, and with uproar about the historic invasion of the seat of power, the incentive is there across the whole society.

Mitch McConnel speech and Lindsey Graham show where the politics has shifted.
Lindsey put it simply, how can one man want to disenfranchise 2 million voters because of something they believe but cannot prove.

I know for certain everyone is a sinner, but I cannot prove it, so I will deal with them as innocent saints. This is our christian duty, but for many antipathy has encased their hearts with real hatred. I saw this when debating free grace followers who happily threw me into hell for sharing we need to walk the straight path. It is no surprise these same folk are happy to throw me into hell for suggesting the election was not fraudulent and Trump is a dictator. Venom mouth is a true analogy for him, he will say opposite things, while appearing to call for peace while praising those who were violent. You cannot expect someone like this to hold any responsibility and they have to answer for the consequences of their actions. Leave this behaviour alone, and literally you are destroying integrity and truth and the foundations of democracy.

God bless you

 

[mmksparbud]

Come on man are you on drugs or something? Uncle corn cob was a bad bad man!

Not comprehending what uncle corn cobb means will respond to the drug dig---in the first place, on this forum it is called flaming. I am not on drugs---at the moment. I do happen to have to take some pain pills later on in the evening. --- If your reference to corn cob is that the man has the unpleasant history (complete with pictures) of soiling his pants, Snopes says that photo is a fake. There are testimonies from former workers on his TV show that he does have that problem. And gave the show a nickname that I can not say on this forum. Not verified. But I most certainly agree that he is a bad, bad man.
And just for your info--- I am not a man!

 

[Wolseley]

And you ,of course, do not believe that abortions can be fought with proper lawful procedure?

And after the last couple of election cycles with all of the vaudevillian balderdash that gone on, in total disregard of the Constitution, you can actually still say that you believe we're being governed under the rule of law? Come on. Law no longer exists, unless it fits somebody's agenda. Election are a farce---the whole system is rigged. We're living in a banana republic, and everybody knows it.

For years, the Left has smiled and rubbed their hands with glee every time their useful idiots go on a rampage and burn down a city, blaming it all on racism or Republicans; but when members of the Right get fed up with being played and rebel against the corruption---even just a little bit---the Left feigns indignance, shakes their jowls and thunders righteous fullisades about "adherence to the law!"

It's not working any more. We haven't had elected representatives in power who have adhered to "the law" in decades; it's finally just now being faced openly and called for what it is. The Left and the media can virtue-signal all they want, but the cat is out of the box now, and the emperor has no clothes.

Trump supporters are willing to kill right now to keep Trump in power

Kind of odd that the only one who got killed was a Trump supporter, isn't it?

There was nothing peaceful about this attempted coup! It was sedition and treason.

Balderdash. If that had been a coup, they would have come better armed. Those were just frustrated, angry people who no longer feel their "representatives" actually represent them any more, and they wanted to be heard.

Not surprised at any of what happened today

Neither am I.

There are a lot of angry conservatives who have been angry for a long time, especially going back to things like the tea party.....I've been expecting this sort of thing for years. Actually when Obama was in office, I thought there would be a national gun confiscation bill of "Assault Weapons" that would spark some kind of insurrection, but that hasn't happened yet.

I agree with you. But it's coming. Biden has stated one of his first priorities is going to be to "get the assault weapons out of the hands of the people", and we all know how that's going to play out. A lot of people are going to end up dead before that happens; conservatives are sick and tired of seeing their liberties taken away, and they're finally starting to put their feet down. If the Left thinks yesterday's activities were outrageous, once Joe tries to disarm the population, they ain't seen nothing yet. As the man said, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore!"

 

[mmksparbud]

Your linked "article" was propagandist rubbish.

Trump no more wants to be "king" than you want to eat maggot-infested roadkill. This idea about Trump is Leftist nonsense. What he does want - and is entirely entitled to - is a fair election. Sadly, the political Establishment in America is determined to have Biden in the White House, so Trump is powerless to do anything. Imagine how much more powerless the individual American is! It looks to me like it won't be long now until Americans find out! They've allowed the temperature to be turned up on their liberties and they will shortly find them boiled entirely away.

And Xi Xiping claps his hands with glee.

Wrong!! What he wants is to continue being President, he has said so often enough, or have you not paid attention to what he actually says? And he doesn't care didley squat for anyone but himself, certainly not this country. He has decided to change his language a bit and now says he just wants a fair election. This attempted coup showed the world exactly what he wants-=--to take over the country, to eliminate over 6 million votes and steal them for himself, he wants to stay away from the over a dozen lawsuits waiting for him and his family after he is no longer president.
You and your fellow fear mongers may be in for a surprise after Biden takes over. He has a country to protect from a virus that he takes seriously and doesn't try to laugh it of as though it's no big deal--thousands upon thousands have died and all he can say is---"It is what it is." Well, guess what, he lost the election---fair and square, no evidence of fraud and his lawyers all had to admit there was no fraud before judges that he appointed---IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!

 

[mmksparbud]

So the person that got shot was a unarmed 14 year USAF vet? Dude what the! They killed a unarmed female 14 year USAF Vet! I'm having a hard time with this one...

Well, so far nobody knows who fired that shot!! But don't let that get in your way of blaming the guards!

 

[mmksparbud]

And after the last couple of election cycles with all of the vaudevillian balderdash that gone on, in total disregard of the Constitution, you can actually still say that you believe we're being governed under the rule of law? Come on. Law no longer exists, unless it fits somebody's agenda. Election are a farce---the whole system is rigged. We're living in a banana republic, and everybody knows it.

For years, the Left has smiled and rubbed their hands with glee every time their useful idiots go on a rampage and burn down a city, blaming it all on racism or Republicans; but when members of the Right get fed up with being played and rebel against the corruption---even just a little bit---the Left feigns indignance, shakes their jowls and thunders righteous fullisades about "adherence to the law!"

It's not working any more. We haven't had elected representatives in power who have adhered to "the law" in decades; it's finally just now being faced openly and called for what it is. The Left and the media can virtue-signal all they want, but the cat is out of the box now, and the emperor has no clothes.

Bunch of disgusting baloney. And has nothing to do with what you posted you were answering to. Which was abortions. The only one that started having a conniption fit is Trump. He certainly thought that his election as President was fair and square and all the machines worked properly for him, it's only after loosing that he developed a problem for he is not a man that can loose. His fragile ego can't take it. And that is what is laughable and pathetic.

Kind of odd that the only one who got killed was a Trump supporter, isn't it?

There were 3 others. Kind of odd that they were the ones trying to take over a government building by force---and many supporters did have guns and waved them for all to see.

Balderdash. If that had been a coup, they would have come better armed. Those were just frustrated, angry people who no longer feel their "representatives" actually represent them any more, and they wanted to be heard.

Balderdash!! That is exactly what they were doing and one of those brilliant guys said so on vedio!! I will not bother to look it up, once was enough for me---you look it up if you want the truth.

I agree with you. But it's coming. Biden has stated one of his first priorities is going to be to "get the assault weapons out of the hands of the people", and we all know how that's going to play out. A lot of people are going to end up dead before that happens; conservatives are sick and tired of seeing their liberties taken away, and they're finally starting to put their feet down. If the Left thinks yesterday's activities were outrageous, once Joe tries to disarm the population, they ain't seen nothing yet. As the man said, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore!"

Yah--removing assault weapons is just horrible---England has had that in effect for years, even the police don't carry guns, though they may be rethinking that one. What is an assault weapons? Not owning any guns I didn't know:

"Assault weapon is a term used in the United States to define some types of firearms. The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions but usually includes semi-automatic rifles with a detachable magazine, a pistol grip and sometimes other features such as a vertical forward grip, flash suppressor or barrel shroud."

Doesn't seem to include handguns. And as I said many countries have had those laws. But I understand that it would prove difficult for those with the money to afford them, and for those that do have the money and are into hunting--some even do it for food--they might have a harder time killing for fun to have a magnificent animals' head on their wall. What a shame. And it is such a Christian thing to do---there are those who actually do eat what they kill and I am not talking about those. But I've seen plenty of hunters who just load up on beer and go killing leaving the animals behind--some idiots have no idea what to do to actually clean the animals and load up carcasses on their trucks without removing certain organs and glands that will make the meat inedible when they get home.
We used to see it all the time when I lived in North Dakota, we would laugh at them. My husband and I did go hunting there. We had bows. We went hunting for deer---we found a great spot---perfect--and sure enough a magnificent buck showed up. We both raised our bows very slowly, at the same time, we looked at each other and we both shook our heads---we slowly lowered our bows and just sat there watching this beautiful animal till he slowly just meandered away---we realized that day that neither of us had the killer instinct. We never hunted again.
Strange what people will kill other people over.

 

[Wolseley]

Well, so far nobody knows who fired that shot!! But don't let that get in your way of blaming the guards!

Oh, they know who fired it. And it wasn't another protestor.

Capitol Police officer 'didn't have a choice' in shooting Babbitt, GOP congressman says | Fox News

 

[GirdYourLoins]

A lot of the unrest in the US has been fuelled by left wing extremists including ANTIFA, hugely influencing BLM protests amongst other things. It is very much a left wing tactic to cause as much disruption, protest, discord, etc during the government of any right wing party. As soon as they have their preferred left wing, or at least most left wing of the major parties, party in power they will stop their protests and try to make life as good as possible. It is a deliberate ploy to make people think life is better under the left wing government. My source for this was being in formal meetings with senior regional trade union representative who were also Labour party members openly talking about it and planning as much discord as they could coming up to a general election. When I questioned it, it was explained to me very clearly and concisely.