Is the church infallible in Protestant theology?

concretecamper

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garee

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I haven’t advocated apostolic succession nor have I made any reference to it. Early church writings have nothing to do with apostolic succession especially since none of the writers were ever popes. These writings merely explain to us what the church actually taught during these time periods. These teachings didn’t contradict the scriptures.

Hi Thanks, I would offer it has everything to do with it. . . as it is written (Sola scriptura) It as it is written is what you must call heresy (biased opinions of men) and not what it really is .

The law of the fathers . . I heard it through the grapevine oral traditions of mankind that some called sacred traditions of the fathers .

I would also suggest that Popes or what the word of God calls a daysman together with the apostle claim they as legion make up what some call ecf's. . . Again a phrase (ecf's )not used in the Bible . It would include the legion 3500 and rising disembodied workers with familiar spirits called by some patron saints . What ever patron saints means ?
 
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nolidad

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prove it using Scripture Alone

Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:19-21
King James Version

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Would you like some more?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Hi Thanks, I would offer it has everything to do with it. . . as it is written (Sola scriptura) It as it is written is what you must call heresy (biased opinions of men) and not what it really is .

One could just as easily say that your interpretation is a “biased opinion of man” the only difference is some of the EFCs we’re actually taught by the apostles themselves so their interpretation has a lot more credibility than the interpretation of someone who was not taught by the apostles and who wasn’t even born until almost 2000 years after the church was established. Do you really think that the entire church fell to false teachings with the death of the apostles? How does that line up with what Jesus said in Matthew 16:18? Do you realize the magnitude of what it would actually take for the entire church made up of thousands of believers who willingly risked their life for the sake of spreading the gospel not to mention the vastly huge area these servants of God were spread out in? And all of this occurred with no evidence of any resistance whatsoever? All of these people willing to die for the gospel spread out over thousands of miles apart just all the sudden agreed to preaching a different gospel with no sign of resistance? Impossible is what I would say to that.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I would also suggest that Popes or what the word of God calls a daysman together with the apostle claim they as legion make up what some call ecf's. . . Again a phrase (ecf's )not used in the Bible . It would include the legion 3500 and rising disembodied workers with familiar spirits called by some patron saints . What ever patron saints means ?

Trinity is another phrase not found in the Bible.
 
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BNR32FAN

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prove it using Scripture Alone

I think a more important question is who did God choose to give us the scriptures? The answer would be thru His Church. It if we’re t for the church we wouldn’t have the scriptures to begin with.
 
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concretecamper

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Psalm 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
This doesn't refer to the Bible. When David wrote the psalms, the bible was wayyyyyy off in the future. Now this psalm may refer to Christ (who is the Word) but definitely not the Bible.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Paul is referring to the Tanakh. When Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the NT wasn't even finished being written. Scripture during Paul's time was the Tanakh. This does not refer to the Bible.
2 Peter 1:19-21
King James Version


19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
See above. Scripture was not the Bible when Peter was instructing the Early church.
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God is not contained in scripture....unless you can demonstrate otherwise. In fact, the Gospel tells us that very little of what Christ said has been recorded. "Every Word" cannot reference the Bible.
Would you like some more?
Yes, I am still waiting for 1.

All of what is presented shows the efficacy of Scripture (which I happen to agree with). However none of what was presented tells us Scripture is the "Authority". None of what was presented refers to the "Bible" Hint: there is scripture that tells us what is the Authority.
 
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garee

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prove it using Scripture Alone

There could be no other way to prove . Disproving would be the challenge

It as it is written is the proof God has spoken and has written with his finger or will (let there be) etched in stone. A law not subject to change after the oral traditions the philosophies of mankind. He set the standard or law by which he desires even today to be heard on High. Graciously giving us new ears to hear and believe His understanding.

Scripture, is the voice of the Spirit of Christs living abiding word.it as it is written proves scripture , or called sola scriptural. It is written as the same or mutual spirit of faith that works in all who have been born again from above.

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

In that way His Spirit is the breath of Christianity the new creation or bride of Christ, the church .In that way even two gathering under his name . We all serve the same manner of Spirit as it is written.

The Bible, the book of God's law is a closed book. God's interpretation towards us. It reveals historical accuracy just as the unseen law of faith accurately reveals the unseen eternal mysteries made known through parables. Parables the source of the gospel or good news .Its understanding is hidden from natural unconverted mankind called; "hidden manna" in Revealtion.2

Jesus the Son of man who spoke the words of His father and not that of his own will declared;. . that without parables the Spirit of Christ the anointing teacher called the Holy Spirt. . . . spoke not .

Searching the parables for his understanding as for silver or gold is given as a privilege, a gift to His children. . the better thing that acompanies salvation . A new way to understand and become acquainted with the Faithfull Creator. .
 
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nolidad

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This doesn't refer to the Bible. When David wrote the psalms, the bible was wayyyyyy off in the future. Now this psalm may refer to Christ (who is the Word) but definitely not the Bible.

Well teh Bible wasn't formalized, but they did have the Torah and Penteteuch.

Paul is referring to the Tanakh. When Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the NT wasn't even finished being written. Scripture during Paul's time was the Tanakh. This does not refer to the Bible.

So you reject the NT as being inspired by God?

The process of declaring both teh inspired word of God as the Bible was the same! But at the time teh Inspired New Testament was in process of being written. Teh writers may not have known that just like the writers of the OT did not know they were writing teh Inspired Word of God- but God did and that is what matters.

Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God is not contained in scripture....unless you can demonstrate otherwise. In fact, the Gospel tells us that very little of what Christ said has been recorded. "Every Word" cannot reference the Bible.

So what do you consider to be the Word of God? The OT was not even the OT at the time of Christ! Neither teh Israelites or the Church had canonized the OT.

All of what is presented shows the efficacy of Scripture (which I happen to agree with). However none of what was presented tells us Scripture is the "Authority". None of what was presented refers to the "Bible" Hint: there is scripture that tells us what is the Authority.

So if you do not believe the bible is authoratative, what Word do yo consider authoratative then?
 
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concretecamper

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Well teh Bible wasn't formalized, but they did have the Torah and Penteteuch.
great. So you agree that the scripture passage you provided to prove the Bible is the Authority doesnt talk about the bible.
So you reject the NT as being inspired by God?
No. Btw, if you would like, prove to me the Gospel of Matthew is inspired text using just Scripture.
The process of declaring both teh inspired word of God as the Bible was the same!
So the Ancient Israelites used the same process of determining was was from God as the NT canonists? Can you provide proof of this?
Teh writers may not have known that just like the writers of the OT did not know they were writing teh Inspired Word of God- but God did and that is what matters.
So your logic is that Paul didn't know what he was writing was going to be considered Inspired text so he could have been referring to his own work?
So what do you consider to be the Word of God
In the Beginning was the Word. BTW, you cannot sub Bible in for Word.
The OT was not even the OT at the time of Christ!
so
Neither teh Israelites or the Church had canonized the OT.
by when?
So if you do not believe the bible is authoratative, what Word do yo consider authoratative then?
I believe Christ and follow what he commanded us to do.

Some Scripture to consider:

Mat 18
But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

1 Tim 3
These things I write to thee, hoping that I shall come to thee shortly. But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Luke 10
He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.
 
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concretecamper

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There could be no other way to prove
I'd be open to any scripture that tells me the Bible is the Authority.
Disproving would be the challenge
The Bible never claims it is the Authority, so I take the Bible for what is says.
 
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garee

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See above. Scripture was not the Bible when Peter was instructing the Early church.

What was the book that had the law (Scripture) in part until the last book Revelation 22 was added?

Peter planted the seed. The Holy Spirit from within the believer instructs the church

Where was the bock for the whole one third of history which was revealed when Moses was moved by the power of God to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. God's witness someone was there working in the affairs of mankind Ultimately either one word or the whole cannon is a work of God and not accredited to the hands as a will of man. .

God is not never was never will be served by the corruptible powerless human hand . Remember he can use a unbeliever to get his gospel out just as easily as one who has been redeemed. .
 
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concretecamper

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What was the book that had the law (Scripture) in part until the last book Revelation 22 was added?
The Tanakh
Peter planted the seed. The Holy Spirit from within the believer instructs the church
ok, he may have, but this doesn't mean the Bible is the Authority.
Where was the bock for the whole one third of history which was revealed when Moses was moved by the power of God to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. God's witness someone was there working in the affairs of mankind Ultimately either one word or the whole cannon is a work of God and not accredited to the hands as a will of man.
this doesnt tell us the Bible is the Authority.
God is not never was never will be served by the corruptible powerless human hand . Remember he can use a unbeliever to get his gospel out just as easily as one who has been redeemed.
this doesn't tell us that the Bible is the Authority.
 
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BNR32FAN

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This doesn't refer to the Bible. When David wrote the psalms, the bible was wayyyyyy off in the future. Now this psalm may refer to Christ (who is the Word) but definitely not the Bible.
Paul is referring to the Tanakh. When Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the NT wasn't even finished being written. Scripture during Paul's time was the Tanakh. This does not refer to the Bible.
See above. Scripture was not the Bible when Peter was instructing the Early church.
Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God is not contained in scripture....unless you can demonstrate otherwise. In fact, the Gospel tells us that very little of what Christ said has been recorded. "Every Word" cannot reference the Bible.
Yes, I am still waiting for 1.

All of what is presented shows the efficacy of Scripture (which I happen to agree with). However none of what was presented tells us Scripture is the "Authority". None of what was presented refers to the "Bible" Hint: there is scripture that tells us what is the Authority.

Amen there was no New Testament in the apostolic era. Scriptural references in the New Testament were always referring to the Old Testament. That’s why you never see New Testament quotes in the New Testament. The only scriptural quotes in the New Testament are from the Old Testament.
 
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garee

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I'd be open to any scripture that tells me the Bible is the Authority.

The Bible never claims it is the Authority, so I take the Bible for what is says.

The Bible God's living, abiding word never claims it is the Authority?

In the beginning sounds like a authority. "Let there be" another. "It was good" another, "Study to show oneself approval unto God" another. "be not faithless but beleive" another, "Love your neighbor as oneself" etc

Not one is a philosophical theory causing wonderment . . should I or should I not.. Believe (exercise or work out faith) or not believe. no exercise no faith?

Do you need more or above that which is written??

If it meats the requirements of being alive able to judge between the things seen the flesh and the unseen soul then commandment must be obeyed.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Will you study according to the commandments?

Take the bible for what it says as it is written .. (the worth of hearing the understanding of God)

Three times in Mathew 4 when the deceiver made several offers as rewards . The father gave words to his prophet and Chief apostle. who declare over and over. Not as I will father but as your will embowers me .Same will as it is written again nd a again .as it is written the one exclusive source of the faith of our unseen God. that empowers believers today. It moved the spirt of error .Strike three you are out .Back to the bottomless bull pen
 
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concretecamper

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The Bible God's living, abiding word never claims it is the Authority?
No
In the beginning sounds like a authority. "Let there be" another. "It was good" another, "Study to show oneself approval unto God" another. "be not faithless but beleive" another, "Love your neighbor as oneself" etc

Not one is a philosophical theory causing wonderment . . should I or should I not.. Believe (exercise or work out faith) or not believe. no exercise no faith?
nothing about the Bible being authoritative hear.
If it meats the requirements of being alive able to judge between the things seen the flesh and the unseen soul then commandment must be obeyed.
many claim the same thing about the book of Morman.
Take the bible for what it says as it is written .. (the worth of hearing the understanding of God)
I do.
Three times in Mathew 4 when the deceiver made several offers as rewards . The father gave words to his prophet and Chief apostle. who declare over and over. Not as I will father but as your will embowers me .Same will as it is written again nd a again .as it is written the one exclusive source of the faith of our unseen God. that empowers believers today. It moved the spirt of error .Strike three you are out .Back to the bottomless bull pen
?
 
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Mark Quayle

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We need an infallible teaching authority, So we would know exactly what God teaches. And we would want to know exactly what God teaches so we can know the truth. And we want to know the truth, because the truth sets us free. And the truth alone brings happiness. If there is no infallible teaching authority then we don’t know if our interpretation of the Bible is correct. And If our interpretation is wrong that could lead to bad decisions which bring under happiness in our life.
So who is that infallible teaching authority? Where do you see that in Scripture? Consider what Paul said about Peter in Galatians 2 before you answer.
 
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concretecamper

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Mark Quayle

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Well, according to the Bible, it isn't the Bible. The Bible does explicitly say the Church has authority to teach.
considered
To be more plain, there is no infallible human alive. There are no existing moral authorities over the conscience of another person, unless as concerns children.

Our only final teaching authority is the Spirit of God, and he is a lot more insightful, accurate and patient than any human, and unlike any human, he is a teacher possessed of absolutely pure and worthy motives. A human may be helpful as far as making a series of words to get a concept across, but by definition our understanding of that concept is fraught with misconceptions. OUR understanding is greedy, wanting to swallow what we don't even understand, not to mention what is poorly communicated on top of that, from a mere human who himself is not possessed of all truth. But the Spirit of God does not operate that way.
 
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