Prophecy and believers who do it...

[Lg2000]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

 

[TheWordIsOne101]

Wrong forum. Delete please

it's ok you are not Wrong its called love

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Wrong forum. Delete please

This actually may be the best forum for talking about the Gift of prophesy for today ;because, some of the boards on the Gifts etc. can have lot's of restrictive rules on things, so if you want a thread that is unfettered etc. you might be better doing it here or another board that isn't at the official gifts place.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

I'd think they're "false" prophets if they strongly assert than they have the correct interpretation and application of prophecy and it all turns out to be an obvious delusion on their part.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

My track record with the Prophetic Movement and Modern Prophets has not been strong at all. I have closely followed the movement since late 1990 when my best friend loaned me his copy of Bill Hamons, Prophets and Personal Prophesy linked below. And not just followed the movement but participated in it by attending prophetic meetings, and was a member of a large prophetic church for 3 years.

https://www.amazon.com/Prophets-Per...196de&pd_rd_wg=x5PBy&pd_rd_i=0939868032&psc=1


I have seen many prophets prophesy things that did not come to pass. I also have become familiar with some of the common reasons given to explain that away. I also disagree with a lot of that because according to the Bible we have a better covenant than that of the Old Testament, yet it seems we are doing a much worse job at prophesying than the people of the Old Testament. This to me is a sign that many people are prophesying out of their imagination etc.


I also believe that this sort of thing can be a sign of the end times. Matthew 24:5
“For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

That word Christ rather than being a claim to be "Christ" can simply be understood as a term for "anointed one". And if you have paid attention the term anointed has gotten really really popular. Lots of people these days think they are a special anointed apostle or prophet etc.


Now the above should not be considered a blanket condemnation of the Charismatic movement etc. I actually have benefitted from the movement in some ways, but it is OK to be skeptical. In fact it is not just OK, it is actually Biblical. Many of the root words for discernment etc. have analytical component about them when it comes to scrutinizing things etc. And don't ever let anyone attack you for being "too intellectual" etc. that is another tactic people do to bully people into blind obedience.

 

[Richard T]

The New Testament standard for prophecy is more forgiving because the gift of prophecy has been rolled out to the masses. In the OT, the prophet would have to be exact. They led the people of God, in wars and other situations. There were very few and the Holy Spirit fell on them and they were given far more of a platform. In the NT, prophecy in a church is to be judged by the other prophets in that church. This suggests that every church should have several people who operate in this gift and can judge each other. The level of prophecy is now rarely national, or international. Instead, NT prophecy may concentrate on the local church body, or even individuals. I admit that much NT prophecy arrives in Wild West fashion, with many so called prophets that are unrecognized and unaccounted for. As such I take most prophecy with a grain of salt. Much of it is so general that it does not matter. When it is specific or individual though, I try to listen to the Lord, to affirm it. If it is futuristic, one can shelf it for a season, and also see if it comes up again. In the NT prophecy comes from the gifts of the Holy Spirit within. Every individual believer also has the guidance and help of the Holy Spirit, which was far different than most in the OT.

Though I might sound too pessimistic, prophecy with words that come from God can be a tremendous help when it is right on. I don't see much of that from "commercial prophets," whom I would define as multi-church, business fronts that seemingly specialize in the prophetic, but it can still occur in some churches and should not be ignored as Paul teaches that we should desire earnestly to prophecy.

 

[Tolworth John]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

The test of a prophet has always been simple.

If it does not happen they are not a prophet.

 

[Hazelelponi]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

They make a laughing stock of our God and our faith. Period.

 

[topher694]

The test of a prophet has always been simple.

If it does not happen they are not a prophet.

Incorrect

 

[FutureAndAHope]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

I believe there are people in the church who can prophesy. As one example a lady once spoke over my life that God was going to use me in the area of praying for the sick, and seeing them healed. Move forward 10-20 years, and I am now seeing this manifest (from time to time).

However, I will say what I have learned from my personal walk. When I was a new Christian I wanted to prophecy, because it was seen a quite a converted gift in our church at the time. I thought all I needed to do was have faith, enough faith to believe for it and I would get it. This led me to believe all sorts of rubbish that I heard from the spirit realm. I was not listening to God at all, but all kinds of evil spirits. I believe there is a large part of the body of Christ who were as I was, believing just anything that pops into their heads to be God. God will speak, but his ways for me are different from just listening for a voice. Visions, given to me, not demanded, have proved to be better indicators of God speaking. Some of these visions have accurately predicted future happenings. One predicted the death of a very famous person in our country, I had a vision that he would die, and he did a month or so later. Another predicted a person I would witness to in the day, giving me very specific details about him, I then met the man, and he ended up getting saved a month or so later. I believe there are people with the gift, but not many, I do not have the gift myself.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

What do you think about modern day prophecy and prophets. What do you think about when they get it wrong .

Deuteronomy 18:21-22
21 “But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.

 

[topher694]

Deuteronomy 18:21-22
21 “But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.

This tired argument is: out of context, selectively applied, and incorrectly interpreted. The 100% accuracy idea is not consistent with the rest of scripture. Plus, it is poor practice to make doctrine out of one scripture.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

This tired argument is: out of context, selectively applied, and incorrectly interpreted. The 100% accuracy idea is not consistent with the rest of scripture. Plus, it is poor practice to make doctrine out of one scripture.

Please explain.

 

[topher694]

Please explain.

Let's start with context. What do verses 15 to18 say? Who (v 15-18) is God talking about and why (prior to 15)?

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

Let's start with context. What do verses 15 to18 say? Who (v 15-18) is God talking about and why (prior to 15)?

He is talking to the House of Israel.Paul calls them the Israel of God.The Church is spiritual Israel in Galatians 6 and also in Romans 9.In Deuteronomy 18:9-15 the Lord is talking about occult practices.From v15 on He is talking about His prophets and false prophets.To put things into context one should remember that the Lord never changes Malachi 3:6,James 1:17,Hebrews 13:8,2 Timothy 2:13, Numbers 23:19, Isaiah 40:8,28, Psalm 102:25-27, Psalm 119:89,90, Psalm 33:11,Psalm 90:2, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 1:17.
Matthew 4:4 tell us that “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

These verses as well as Deuteronomy 18 are the word of God ,He does not change and 1 Peter 1:23-25 says
For you have been born again,not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,
24 For,“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.

 

[John Helpher]

What do you think about when they get it wrong .

What God is ultimately looking for is sincerity. Sincere people question themselves. They question their own motivations and they think deeply about how their behavior will affect others. Sometimes even sincere people get it wrong and other sincere people will recognize when that happens.

Insincere people are the opposite. They don't question themselves. Their decisions are based on personal benefit of some kind or another. Their motivation is almost always greed, fear, and pride, and often this appeals to the masses because they also operate with the same motives.

 

[topher694]

He is talking to the House of Israel.Paul calls them the Israel of God.The Church is spiritual Israel in Galatians 6 and also in Romans 9.In Deuteronomy 18:9-15 the Lord is talking about occult practices.From v15 on He is talking about His prophets and false prophets.To put things into context one should remember that the Lord never changes Malachi 3:6,James 1:17,Hebrews 13:8,2 Timothy 2:13, Numbers 23:19, Isaiah 40:8,28, Psalm 102:25-27, Psalm 119:89,90, Psalm 33:11,Psalm 90:2, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 1:17.
Matthew 4:4 tell us that “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

These verses as well as Deuteronomy 18 are the word of God ,He does not change and 1 Peter 1:23-25 says
For you have been born again,not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,
24 For,“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.

You hit on part of it. That part being the talk of false prophets and the occult. There was no house of Israel yet, but the other important piece of context is Moses is talking about God raising up a prophet like Him.

So, God is raising up a prophet like Moses and with all of the occult going on in the nations around them the concern is how will we know this prophet when he comes... how will we be able to tell the difference between him and a fake, and the response is what we see in verses 18-22. The context of those verses are for that specific prophet. It is all over the scripture, "I will raise up for them a Prophet"... "he shall speak to them all I command him" This is not a qualification for ALL prophets, God never said that, it is a qualification for THIS prophet, and that was so they would be able to confidently recognize him in a time where prophets were a new thing to them and there were plenty of counterfeits all around them.

This in no way contradicts God being the same yesterday today and forever, or his word enduring forever. This is still completely in line with His nature and His word... in fact it is MORE in line with it. Because there are many examples in the Bible of prophetic words from confirmed prophets of the Lord that did not come to pass. Think about it this way: When you talk to God, do you throw out a fleece every time to make sure it was Him? Cause that's in the word. Or could it be a specific word for a specific time & person? Heck, Gideon didn't even do that every time he talked to God.

However, this is only the beginning. Even if we were to apply Deut 18:22 to all prophets it still does not require 100% accuracy. So often people go to this scripture seeking to find what THEY are looking for and not seeking what God is actually saying. So question #2. How many qualifications are there listed in verse 22 and what are they? Question 3, who are those qualifications directed to? The KJV better illustrates the original Hebrew in this case:

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

You hit on part of it. That part being the talk of false prophets and the occult. There was no house of Israel yet, but the other important piece of context is Moses is talking about God raising up a prophet like Him.

So, God is raising up a prophet like Moses and with all of the occult going on in the nations around them the concern is how will we know this prophet when he comes... how will we be able to tell the difference between him and a fake, and the response is what we see in verses 18-22. The context of those verses are for that specific prophet. It is all over the scripture, "I will raise up for them a Prophet"... "he shall speak to them all I command him" This is not a qualification for ALL prophets, God never said that, it is a qualification for THIS prophet, and that was so they would be able to confidently recognize him in a time where prophets were a new thing to them and there were plenty of counterfeits all around them.

This in no way contradicts God being the same yesterday today and forever, or his word enduring forever. This is still completely in line with His nature and His word... in fact it is MORE in line with it. Because there are many examples in the Bible of prophetic words from confirmed prophets of the Lord that did not come to pass. Think about it this way: When you talk to God, do you throw out a fleece every time to make sure it was Him? Cause that's in the word. Or could it be a specific word for a specific time & person? Heck, Gideon didn't even do that every time he talked to God.

However, this is only the beginning. Even if we were to apply Deut 18:22 to all prophets it still does not require 100% accuracy. So often people go to this scripture seeking to find what THEY are looking for and not seeking what God is actually saying. So question #2. How many qualifications are there listed in verse 22 and what are they? Question 3, who are those qualifications directed to? The KJV better illustrates the original Hebrew in this case:

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

The 12 tribes are the House of Israel. Jacob in Genesis 49 gave a prophetic message to his sons,the House of Jacob(Israel). There has been prophets before this time and God's word was from the beginning,just as we can say that His laws and commands were from the beginning also,not just beginning when God gave them to Moses.These laws and commands were reiterated to Israel.Moses gave all kinds of prophecies in Egypt. Are you saying that we should believe prophets who get it wrong? Have any of God's prophets in all the Bible got it wrong?

 

[Loaves and Fishes]

What God is ultimately looking for is sincerity. Sincere people question themselves. They question their own motivations and they think deeply about how their behavior will affect others. Sometimes even sincere people get it wrong and other sincere people will recognize when that happens.

Insincere people are the opposite. They don't question themselves. Their decisions are based on personal benefit of some kind or another. Their motivation is almost always greed, fear, and pride, and often this appeals to the masses because they also operate with the same motives.

God doesn't allow hit and miss prophets.

 

[topher694]

The 12 tribes are the House of Israel. Jacob in Genesis 49 gave a prophetic message to his sons,the House of Jacob(Israel). There has been prophets before this time and God's word was from the beginning,just as we can say that His laws and commands were from the beginning also,not just beginning when God gave them to Moses.These laws and commands were reiterated to Israel.Moses gave all kinds of prophecies in Egypt. Are you saying that we should believe prophets who get it wrong? Have any of God's prophets in all the Bible got it wrong?

You are focusing on the wrong things here. You ignored most of what I said and took the rest out of context. And now you are pulling the "are you saying" type of accusations? If you want to argue then forget it. If you want to learn then by all means let me know.

This is not theory to me. I train and oversee 5 fold ministers including Prophets. I prophesy. I know true prophets. I have seen false prophets. I have seen crazy miraculous accurate prophesies fulfilled that could only come from the Lord. I have written training curriculum on it... but by all means you go ahead and tell me "what I'm saying"