With all your heart?

Can you love God with all of your heart?


  • Total voters
    35
Status
Not open for further replies.

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
A command logically implies that one must do such a command, otherwise it would not be a command. God does not tell us to do that which is impossible. That would be dishonest of God to give us faulty instructions that are not true. God speaks truth. He would not tell us to do something that we could not do.
That is poor logic. Do you have something to show me that proves God would not tell us to do that which we are unable to do? The tree he cursed wasn't even in season for giving fruit!

If one ultimately rejects the Gospel, is he not condemned? Yet God himself says, " 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.." (Romans 8) (Bold is my emphasis) If they cannot, why are they condemned for not doing so? --Because they have sinned against God. And that, willingly.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
A command logically implies that one must do such a command, otherwise it would not be a command. God does not tell us to do that which is impossible. That would be dishonest of God to give us faulty instructions that are not true. God speaks truth. He would not tell us to do something that we could not do.
How is it "faulty instructions" if we are unable to follow the instructions?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That is poor logic. Do you have something to show me that proves God would not tell us to do that which we are unable to do? The tree he cursed wasn't even in season for giving fruit!

Where in the Scriptures does it say that the tree was not in season to give fruit?
Besides, life teaches us that if we give commands to others, it is for the purpose for them to fulfill them. We don't give commands for the purpose that they cannot fulfill them. That would be dishonest and mean on our part to tell someone to do something we know that they cannot do it. God is not like that. For if somebody commanded you to drive over to the other side of the bridge that they know you could not do because the bridge is not capable of supporting the weight of your vehicle, then they would be giving you instructions that are false and wrong and they know it. They are being mean and hurtful with you. God is not like that. God is not going to send us on a wild goose chase in trying to do something that is impossible.

You said:
If one ultimately rejects the Gospel, is he not condemned? Yet God himself says, " 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.." (Romans 8) (Bold is my emphasis) If they cannot, why are they condemned for not doing so? --Because they have sinned against God. And that, willingly.

The flesh is dealing with sin. For Galatians 5:19 tell us that the works of the flesh are various sins (See: Galatians 5:20-21). Those who are thinking in terms of sinning as a way of life, cannot please God is what that verse is saying in Romans 8. The true gospel leads us into holiness.

For Titus 2:11-12 says that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Why are you trying to undo the Lord's first greatest commandment? What do you have to gain? Do you want people to not strive at obeying God? Jesus wants us to obey Him. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). You say you can love Jesus and not keep His commandments. But I am sticking with Jesus on this one.
Why do you say I am trying to undo it? Again. The law reveals our sin. Nobody but Christ has ever kept it perfectly. I am not trying to undo it. I am merely stating fact --we do sin, we do not, then, love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.

Are you serious? What makes you think I would want people to not strive at obeying God? Of Course, WE MUST obey. We are driven, compelled, to obey! And thank God --we DO obey! But we also disobey. Admit it.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How is it "faulty instructions" if we are unable to follow the instructions?

Your question is illogical. The fact that if one gives us instructions that are not capable of obeying means that those instructions are faulty or wrong in some way. Does not the Lord have the capacity to command the wind and the waves? What if the wind and the waves did not obey Him? See, the dumb logic in this kind of thinking. If God gives commands, the end result is for that person or thing to accomplish that task.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why do you say I am trying to undo it?

Jesus gave these commands for us in the Bible, and you are saying we don't have to keep them even though Jesus told us we did. You are contradicting the words of Jesus Christ, dear sir.

You said:
Again. The law reveals our sin. Nobody but Christ has ever kept it perfectly.

Whoever said perfection was a necessary requirement for beleivers to be saved?
Yes, we do need a substitute. No doubt about it. But you probably do not like 1 John 1:7.
It basically says that if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
So the condition is if you walk in the light. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the use of indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So we have to love our brother in order to have the blood of Jesus to continue to cleanse us from all sin. Well, that is if you believe the apostle John in what he wrote.

You said:
I am merely stating fact --we do sin, we do not,

No. You are only stating your own experience. Our experience is not the same as what the Bible says. You prefer your own experience over what the Word says. Read 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24, Romans 8:13, and Romans 13:14.

You said:
then, love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength.

Why would God bother to be so detailed about the giving of His commands if we could not keep them. What you propose is nonsense.

You said:
Are you serious?

Jesus says with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. So yes. You can keep the 1st greatest commandment. You just have to believe God's Word, and be persistent in your faith of it no matter what.

You said:
What makes you think I would want people to not strive at obeying God? Of Course, WE MUST obey. We are driven, compelled, to obey! And thank God --we DO obey! But we also disobey. Admit it.

Now you are contradicting yourself. Before you were for the position that we cannot obey, and now you are talking about how we must obey. So which is it?
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Where in the Scriptures does it say that the tree was not in season to give fruit?
"12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs." -- Mark 11 (My emphasis)
Besides, life teaches us that if we give commands to others, it is for the purpose for them to fulfill them. We don't give commands for the purpose that they cannot fulfill them. That would be dishonest and mean on our part to tell someone to do something we know that they cannot do it. God is not like that. For if somebody commanded you to drive over to the other side of the bridge that they know you could not do because the bridge is not capable of supporting the weight of your vehicle, then they would be giving you instructions that are false and wrong and they know it. They are being mean and hurtful with you. God is not like that. God is not going to send us on a wild goose chase in trying to do something that is impossible.

I don't have the right to command you to do something like that because I am your peer, not your Creator. But "who are you, Oh man, to be questioning God?" See the difference? You might consider yourself dignifying of his consideration as an animate being, but really, how animate are you?

Do you operate on his level? Does he owe you a hearing? It is only the Spirit within you and his plan for you, and whatever else he may assess, that gives you any value at all. He owes you no respect.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Your question is illogical. The fact that if one gives us instructions that are not capable of obeying means that those instructions are faulty or wrong in some way. Does not the Lord have the capacity to command the wind and the waves? What if the wind and the waves did not obey Him? See, the dumb logic in this kind of thinking. If God gives commands, the end result is for that person or thing to accomplish that task.
That is only true if the instructor never intended that you should fail to obey them. God did not plan to fail. He instructed for the purpose of showing WE NEED HIM --not for the purpose of finding out who is good enough and who is not.

You seem to me to keep separating yourself from God and proving yourself worthy. You want his help, but not total dependence. We are not even complete beings until we are one with him, finally seeing him as he is. Yet you have us contending with God as total creatures, worthy of his respect in and of ourselves. Do you honestly think we do our part and he does his? When we do our part IT IS HIM IN US DOING IT. The whole thing is his part.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Hammster
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Jesus gave these commands for us in the Bible, and you are saying we don't have to keep them even though Jesus told us we did. You are contradicting the words of Jesus Christ, dear sir.
No sir I am not saying that. We MUST keep them, but we don't. Here we see the grace of God. And don't pretend you keep them. Just don't. Sometimes yes, many times yes, perhaps usually, maybe even most of the time, or if you are so wonderful, almost all the time! But you also don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0

returntosender

EL ROI
Supporter
May 30, 2020
9,418
4,304
casa grande
✟340,874.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
NO! (People who love the Lord don't continue in sin, yes). It only implies that people who sometimes sin don't love the Lord with all their being. If I love the Lord it doesn't mean I won't ever sin.

Are you now going to tell me that you don't ever sin? You love the Lord, don't you? Yet, yes, you sin, at least sometimes, if not often unknowingly, with sin God hasn't brought to your mind yet. And you sin sometimes even though you love the Lord, and so do I.

There is a difference, I think you will admit, between Loving the Lord, and Loving the Lord with all one's heart, soul, mind and strength.
I concede your point. IOW, you are right but only because I agree with you and didn't finish reading your post before I opened my mouth.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
For Titus 2:11-12 says that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world.
"Should" being the operative word there. Of course we should. In fact, it is more emphatic than that --WE MUST! But do we? --But thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
"12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs." -- Mark 11 (My emphasis)

Okay. Well said. I will take correction by God's Word. I should have read it before replying to you. But this again does not prove your point about the purpose of God commanding things. Jesus commanded the tree to be withered for a purpose or reason that is not exactly clear. In Mark 11, Jesus does say we need to forgive if you are to be forgiven by the Father. John 15:5 says, “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” So it is possible that the withered tree may be a picture of God being aware of someone or some group of people who will not abide in Him, and thus, they will be withered up. It could possibly be the Jewish nation who rejected Him in being the Messiah. But this is not a case for Calvinism by any means. God elects according to His foreknowledge (See: 1 Peter 1:1-2). God does not elect based on no conditions (i.e. Unconditional Election).

You said:
I don't have the right to command you to do something like that because I am your peer, not your Creator. But "who are you, Oh man, to be questioning God?" See the difference? You might consider yourself dignifying of his consideration as an animate being, but really, how animate are you?

Sorry. I just consider Calvinism to be crazier than bag of cats. I just cannot take it seriously because there is only Romans 9 taken out of context that even remotely sounds like Calvnism. Jonah told the Ninevites that in 40 days that they were going to be overthrown or judged by God. But that did not happen. The Ninevites repented. They cried out to God and they forsaked their evil ways. In fact, when God had seen that they forsaken their wicked ways, that is when GOD decided to turn from bringing wrath or judgment upon them. So it was not God electing them to destruction, or salvation. The Ninevites made their own choice to change the scenario.
 
Upvote 0

Swag365

Well-Known Member
Dec 25, 2019
1,352
481
USA
✟50,429.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
You are misrepresenting what I said. God uses it for his own Glory. He allowed it for his own Glory. He even planned for it to happen, and that, for the sake of his own Glory. It is not intended, by those who do it, for his Glory. Don't make me say what I didn't say. One doesn't worship the Devil with the motivation to glorify God.

Why go the step further? I have just answered it. Why bother with devil worship and rape? Why not go with the most innocuous, insipid, inconsequential wrongdoing you can think of? It is no difference. The sinner intended it for evil, but God MEANT IT for good.

Do you honestly think the worst thing in the history of the human race can compare with the Glory of what awaits us? It isn't even on the same scale.
I did not misrepresent what you wrote. I wrote that according to you, devil worship is for the glory of God. Your argument, in fact, is that devil worship is for the glory of God (in the specific sense that you describe above).

Regardless, you are wrong. That comes from an incorrect reading of Romans. And the result is scandalous. The direct analogy is a judge allowing (and "even planning for") his daughter to be raped by some sick individual, so that he can show the world how powerful and just he is by sentencing the criminal to death.

There is not a person on the Earth who would praise such a judge, or think that he is worthy of glory or honor. They would call him an insane, abusive, insecure psychopath, and that is precisely what that brand of theology does to God when we get down to the crux of the matter.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: zoidar
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
"Should" being the operative word there. Of course we should. In fact, it is more emphatic than that --WE MUST! But do we? --But thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift.

Before you were arguing for disobedeince. So which one is it? Obedience or disobedience?
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Okay. Well said. I will take correction by God's Word. I should have read it before replying to you. But this again does not prove your point about the purpose of God commanding things. Jesus commanded the tree to be withered for a purpose or reason that is not exactly clear. In Mark 11, Jesus does say we need to forgive if you are to be forgiven by the Father. John 15:5 says, “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” So it is possible that the withered tree may be a picture of God being aware of someone or some group of people who will not abide in Him, and thus, they will be withered up. It could possibly be the Jewish nation who rejected Him in being the Messiah. But this is not a case for Calvinism by any means. God elects according to His foreknowledge (See: 1 Peter 1:1-2). God does not elect based on no conditions (i.e. Unconditional Election).
I could almost guess you were purposely ignoring the point of what I said. Spiritualize the "withered" part of the story as you wish, he cursed it because when he went to look for fruit on it, there was none, even though it could not have possibly even produced it, being out of season.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,622
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Before you were arguing for disobedeince. So which one is it? Obedience or disobedience?
Lol, there you go again. --"Arguing FOR disobedience"? What are you trying to say? Can you show me where I argue for disobedience? Disobedience in what context? What do you mean?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I could almost guess you were purposely ignoring the point of what I said. Spiritualize the "withered" part of the story as you wish, he cursed it because when he went to look for fruit on it, there was none, even though it could not have possibly even produced it, being out of season.

Again, God elects according to His foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:1-2). Meaning, God knows what we are going to do before we do it. God has every right to wither a tree that he knows will not bear fruit before the fruit season comes. God can see into the future and know what that tree is going to do. The tree could very well be a picture of Israel. God knows that the nation of Israel will reject Him as Messiah, and his telling his disciples to not eat of this tree could be Him telling them not to continue in the ways of Judaism.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Again, God elects according to His foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:1-2). Meaning, God knows what we are going to do before we do it. God has every right to wither a tree that he knows will not bear fruit before the fruit season comes. God can see into the future and know what that tree is going to do. The tree could very well be a picture of Israel. God knows that the nation of Israel will reject Him as Messiah, and his telling his disciples to not eat of this tree could be Him telling them not to continue in the ways of Judaism.
That’s not what it means. Foreknowledge is foreknowing people, not what they do.

Same word:


For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
— 1 Peter 1:20
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Lol, there you go again. --"Arguing FOR disobedience"? What are you trying to say? Can you show me where I argue for disobedience? Disobedience in what context? What do you mean?

I got the impression you were for arguing for disobedience in post #364; For you said,

“I posted as if we don't sin? What?

I hope you mean something I'm not seeing, because I don't post as if we don't sin. I've been insisting on the opposite of that all along.” ~ Mark Quayle.
You are arguing for the opposite of not sinning. Sin is disobedience.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.