Do Whatever They Tell You...

[AbbaLove]

What is the TaNak?

God bless you @HARK! you are to much to handle, farewell friend.

If you have no love your faith in itself is invalid, and has no value.

TaNaK = Torah (first 5 books of Law), Nevi'im (Prophets) , Ketuvim (Writings) - the Hebrew Bible = the OT ... www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-tanakh

As you've noticed some followers of Messianic Judaism apparently consider "Christianity" as 2nd class theology in comparison to the theology of the Torah and the "seat of Moses". To the point that even the writings of the Apostles (NT) take a back seat to the "seat of Moses." (Hebrew Bible/OT). Both Peter and James agreed with the following consensus of the Jerusalem Council ... by which the OP possibly views Christianity (first 5 books of the NT) as 2nd class theology in comparison to the theology of the first five books of the OT (Torah).

It's quite possible that the OP considers the following verses (Acts 15) to be too revolutionary to the point that even non-Jewish males should still be circumcised of flesh when the Complete Jewish Bible (both OT & NT) says that circumcision of the heart is more important than circumcision of the flesh (Deuteronomy 10:16 and Galatians 5:2).

The OP apparently believes that the following verses in Acts 15 in effect classify "Christians" at Antioch and future "Christians" holding to these verses as 2nd class followers who's Faith is in the writings of the apostles (NT) in comparison to Jews (1st class followers) that put their trust more in the OT than the NT. The OP apparantely bases his bias on the following consensus by both Peter and James as being inferior to the Jewish followers of the Hebrew Bible (OT) over that of the writings of the apostles (NT)...

Acts 15:1
1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Acts 15:8-11
8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Acts 15:19-20
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:24-26
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:28-29
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.​

The OP lost his debate premise (Matthew 21:1-3) so he decided to change the topic to the "Seat of Moses" to further distinguish Messianic Judaism from Christendom. The obvious intent of the OP is to make the point that he considers Messianic Judaism to be 1st Class theology; whereas he apparently views Christendom as 2nd Class theology. An administrator should lock this thread to stop him from further stirring the pot of Messianic Judaism vs Christianity.
.
His thread better belongs in a Messianic Judaism forum. For him to continue stirring the pot in this "Christian" theology forum serves no purpose except to cause further dissension. He knows better than to think Christianity will come around to his theology based more on the "seat of Moses" than the inspired and ordained writings of apostles including Paul. The OP knows that YHVH never intended for non-Jewish gentiles to adhere to the Law; which was even too heavy a yoke for His disciples (Acts:15:10) to follow.

Maybe, a CF administrator will see fit to close this thread and suggest the need for further training by this OP in training who decided to change the intent of this thread to the "seat of Moses" as if the writings of the Apostles (NT) takes a back seat to the seat of Moses. Does the OP actually believe that the "seat of Moses" is more important to Father GOD than the "seat of His own Son".

The Truth be known that the self-righteousness of the Judaic laws are inferior to the righteousness of GOD which is only possible via the indwelling and abiding baptism of His Spirit (born again) which was only possible via the Cross as atonement for mankind, both Jew and non-Jew (Galatians 3:28).

 

[HARK!]

Yes, but I have no idea what the Moses seat is.
And even if it exists today, I am not Jewish, so why would I listen to those who sit on something that I don't know about?

Jesus is greater than Moses.

This is what Yahshua told us to do. Perhaps we should investigate, to understand what he was talking about.

 

[HARK!]

No. Because the Scribes and Pharisees taught the law as written in Leviticus.

The Pharisees read the Law as given to Moses YHWH himself

They told Jesus that he was wrong to heal on the Sabbath.

They didn't understand the Law. Yahshua came to magnify it for them.

They told him that he should have rebuked his disciples for not washing their hands,

This was man made doctrine. We see a lot of that in the Churches today.

and for when they walked through a cornfield on the Sabbath, picking and eating the corn.

Again, their misunderstanding of YHWH's law. Thet added leaven to it.

They complained to Jesus because their disciples were fasting, but Jesus' weren't.

This was a misinterpretation of the Law.

They complained that Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners and Simon, a Pharisee,

Again, man made Law.

They also tithed 10% of their crops and taught others to do so.

As it is written. Yahshua wasn't a farmer.

Jesus did not teach any of this, nor adherence to the law.

How do you explain this:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

(CLV) Mt 24:35
Heaven and earth shall be passing by, yet My words may by no means be passing by.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness (keeping the law) should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

When an adulterous woman was brought to him by Jewish leaders, who were ready to stone her to death, in accordance with the law; Jesus did not condemn her but let her go.

That story is a fabrication. It's not in the original texts.

Even so, to stone her, without stoning the man, would have been a transgression of the Torah. To stone her without taking her before the Judges of YHWH's Court, would have been a transgression of the Torah.

I would encourage you to study the TaNaK. It's difficult to understand the Brit Chadasha without a good foundation in YHWH's word.

The Jewish leaders considered that Jesus broke the law - i.e disregarded the words given by Moses - and eventually had him killed.

They were false accusers of Satan. Would you use their words to support transgression of the Torah?

 

[HARK!]

3:16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:

When this verse was written; there was no Brit Chadashah. The scripture that is being referenced is the TaNaK.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

​

TaNaK = Torah (first 5 books of Law), Nevi'im (Prophets) , Ketuvim (Writings) - the Hebrew Bible = the OT ... www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-tanakh

As you've noticed some followers of Messianic Judaism apparently consider "Christianity" as 2nd class theology in comparison to the theology of the Torah and the "seat of Moses". To the point that even the writings of the Apostles (NT) take a back seat to the "seat of Moses." (Hebrew Bible/OT). Both Peter and James agreed with the following consensus of the Jerusalem Council ... by which the OP possibly views Christianity (first 5 books of the NT) as 2nd class theology in comparison to the theology of the first five books of the OT (Torah).

It's quite possible that the OP considers the following verses (Acts 15) to be too revolutionary to the point that even non-Jewish males should still be circumcised of flesh when the Complete Jewish Bible (both OT & NT) says that circumcision of the heart is more important than circumcision of the flesh (Deuteronomy 10:16 and Galatians 5:2).

The OP apparently believes that the following verses in Acts 15 in effect classify "Christians" at Antioch and future "Christians" holding to these verses as 2nd class followers who's Faith is in the writings of the apostles (NT) in comparison to Jews (1st class followers) that put their trust more in the OT than the NT. The OP apparantely bases his bias on the following consensus by both Peter and James as being inferior to the Jewish followers of the Hebrew Bible (OT) over that of the writings of the apostles (NT)...

Acts 15:1
1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Acts 15:8-11
8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Acts 15:19-20
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:24-26
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:28-29
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.​

The OP lost his debate premise (Matthew 21:1-3) so he decided to change the topic to the "Seat of Moses" to further distinguish Messianic Judaism from Christendom. The obvious intent of the OP is to make the point that he considers Messianic Judaism to be 1st Class theology; whereas he apparently views Christendom as 2nd Class theology. An administrator should lock this thread to stop him from further stirring the pot of Messianic Judaism vs Christianity.
.
His thread better belongs in a Messianic Judaism forum. For him to continue stirring the pot in this "Christian" theology forum serves no purpose except to cause further dissension. He knows better than to think Christianity will come around to his theology based more on the "seat of Moses" than the inspired and ordained writings of apostles including Paul. The OP knows that YHVH never intended for non-Jewish gentiles to adhere to the Law; which was even too heavy a yoke for His disciples (Acts:15:10) to follow.

Maybe, a CF administrator will see fit to close this thread and suggest the need for further training by this OP in training who decided to change the intent of this thread to the "seat of Moses" as if the writings of the Apostles (NT) takes a back seat to the seat of Moses. Does the OP actually believe that the "seat of Moses" is more important to Father GOD than the "seat of His own Son".

The Truth be known that the self-righteousness of the Judaic laws are inferior to the righteousness of GOD which is only possible via the indwelling and abiding baptism of His Spirit (born again) which was only possible via the Cross as atonement for mankind, both Jew and non-Jew (Galatians 3:28).

Eeek! How did you get all of that from what was posted in the OP which was only scripture from Matthew 23:1-3 that is based on those who know the Word of God but do not follow what the Word of God says?

Matthew 23:1-37
[1], Then spoke Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2], Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[3], All therefore whatever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not you after their works: for they say, and do not.
[4], For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
[5], But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
[6], And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
[7], And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[8], But be not you called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all you are brothers.
[9], And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10], Neither be you called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
[11], But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
[12], And whoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
[13], But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you neither go in yourselves, neither suffer you them that are entering to go in.
[14], Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayer: therefore you shall receive the greater damnation.
[15], Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[16], Woe to you, you blind guides, which say, Whoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[17], You fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifies the gold?
[18], And, Whoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is guilty.
[19], You fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifies the gift?
[20], Whoever therefore shall swear by the altar, swears by it, and by all things thereon.
[21], And whoever shall swear by the temple, swears by it, and by him that dwells therein.
[22], And he that shall swear by heaven, swears by the throne of God, and by him that sits thereon.
[23], Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[24], You blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
[25], Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[26], You blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
[27], Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like to white washed sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[28], Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
[29], Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous,
[30], And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[31], Why you be witnesses to yourselves, that you are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[32], Fill you up then the measure of your fathers.
[33], You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?
[34], Why, behold, I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall you whip in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
[35], That on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom you slew between the temple and the altar.
[36], Truly I say to you, All these things shall come on this generation.
[37], O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent to you, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not!

.................

The above scriptures in my view are all about Christianity which seems to be the opposite of what your claiming in your post in relation to the OP which was only scripture.

God bless

 

[Strong in Him]

This is what Yahshua told us to do. Perhaps we should investigate, to understand what he was talking about.

No, he told the Jews - not Gentiles.
And certainly not those who would come to hear about him many centuries later, in other countries that did not have Moses' seat.

Obey Moses if you wish, but Jesus is greater and has fulfilled the law given by Moses.
Moses, a man, was an intermediary between God and the Hebrews at Sinai and told them of the covenant that God was making with them.
Jesus, God, is the mediator of the NEW Covenant that God made, and sealed with his Son's blood.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, he told the Jews - not Gentiles.
And certainly not those who would come to hear about him many centuries later, in other countries that did not have Moses' seat.

Obey Moses if you wish, but Jesus is greater and has fulfilled the law given by Moses.
Moses, a man, was an intermediary between God and the Hebrews at Sinai and told them of the covenant that God was making with them.
Jesus, God, is the mediator of the NEW Covenant that God made, and sealed with his Son's blood.

Who is God's Word for *1 Corinthians 10:11; Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16?

 

[mlepfitjw]

Jesus Is Greater Than Moses


1And so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are partners with those called to heaven, think carefully about this Jesus whom we declare to be God’s messenger and High Priest.

2 For he was faithful to God, who appointed him, just as Moses served faithfully when he was entrusted with God’s entire house.

3 But Jesus deserves far more glory than Moses, just as a person who builds a house deserves more praise than the house itself.

4 For every house has a builder, but the one who built everything is God.

5 Moses was certainly faithful in God’s house as a servant. His work was an illustration of the truths God would reveal later.

6 But Christ, as the Son, is in charge of God’s entire house. And we are God’s house, if we keep our courage and remain confident in our hope in Christ.

7 That is why the Holy Spirit says,

“Today when you hear his voice,
8 don’t harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled,
when they tested me in the wilderness.


9 There your ancestors tested and tried my patience,
even though they saw my miracles for forty years.

10 So I was angry with them, and I said,
‘Their hearts always turn away from me.
They refuse to do what I tell them.’

11 So in my anger I took an oath:
‘They will never enter my place of rest.’”

12 Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God. 13 You must warn each other every day, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.

14 For if we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ.

15 Remember what it says:

“Today when you hear his voice,
don’t harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled.”

16 And who was it who rebelled against God, even though they heard his voice? Wasn’t it the people Moses led out of Egypt?

17 And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness?

18 And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him?

19 So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest.​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Jesus Is Greater Than Moses


1And so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are partners with those called to heaven, think carefully about this Jesus whom we declare to be God’s messenger and High Priest.

2 For he was faithful to God, who appointed him, just as Moses served faithfully when he was entrusted with God’s entire house.

3 But Jesus deserves far more glory than Moses, just as a person who builds a house deserves more praise than the house itself.

4 For every house has a builder, but the one who built everything is God.

5 Moses was certainly faithful in God’s house as a servant. His work was an illustration of the truths God would reveal later.

6 But Christ, as the Son, is in charge of God’s entire house. And we are God’s house, if we keep our courage and remain confident in our hope in Christ.

7 That is why the Holy Spirit says,

“Today when you hear his voice,
8 don’t harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled,
when they tested me in the wilderness.


9 There your ancestors tested and tried my patience,
even though they saw my miracles for forty years.

10 So I was angry with them, and I said,
‘Their hearts always turn away from me.
They refuse to do what I tell them.’

11 So in my anger I took an oath:
‘They will never enter my place of rest.’”

12 Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God. 13 You must warn each other every day, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.

14 For if we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ.

15 Remember what it says:

“Today when you hear his voice,
don’t harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled.”

16 And who was it who rebelled against God, even though they heard his voice? Wasn’t it the people Moses led out of Egypt?

17 And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness?

18 And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him?

19 So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest.​

Sure, Jesus is greater then Moses, as the potter is greater then the pot made from clay. All Moses represented was God's Word (the Potter) whose Word we are given to believe and follow.

 

[Studyman]

No. Because the Scribes and Pharisees taught the law as written in Leviticus.

This is simply not Biblical Truth. That is, if the Word's of the Christ of the Bible are to be trusted.

Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God who gave the Law in Leviticus)

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Acts 7:Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

So it is important to make sure our statements about Biblical things align with what is written. In this case your statement "No. Because the Scribes and Pharisees taught the law as written in Leviticus" is simply untrue, and is contrary to the very Word's of the Christ Himself. They "SAID" they taught God's Law, but Jesus made it abundantly true that they did not "Teach" God's Law.

They told Jesus that he was wrong to heal on the Sabbath. They told him that he should have rebuked his disciples for not washing their hands, and for when they walked through a cornfield on the Sabbath, picking and eating the corn. They complained to Jesus because their disciples were fasting, but Jesus' weren't. They complained that Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners and Simon, a Pharisee, complained when a "disreputable woman" anointed Jesus. They also tithed 10% of their crops and taught others to do so.

There was never a LAW of God prohibiting the practice of walking in Fellowship on God's Holy Sabbath, or picking an apple or blackberry or ear of corn along the way. This was a "Commandment of Men" that Jesus pointed out they were teaching for doctrines.

There is not a single Commandment from God to "Fast" except for the Feast of Atonement, in all the Holy Scriptures. Certainly not a Law of God requiring a fast "Twice a week" as the one Jew bragged. There was no Law of God which prohibited telling Strangers and Gentiles, AKA "Sinners" about God. This too was a Commandment of Men they dreamed up after the imagination of their own heart, as the Prophets of old Prophesied over and over and over. I know what you are promoting here is a popular teaching in this land I was born into. But if you were to search the Oracles of God, you would find this popular religious doctrine untrue.

Jesus did not teach any of this, nor adherence to the law.

Matt. 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Duet. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

And again;

Matt. 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, (I'll paraphrase) God's Commandments!!

Again, how can you preach to the world " Jesus did not teach any of this, nor adherence to the law" when Jesus Himself says the exact opposite?

When an adulterous woman was brought to him by Jewish leaders, who were ready to stone her to death, in accordance with the law; Jesus did not condemn her but let her go.

Again, this does not honestly and accurately represent what happened in this story.

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Did God Destroy the mainstream preachers of Jesus' Time because they taught lies about God? No, He had long suffering and mercy. Was it just and righteous according to God's Law, for Jesus to advocate stoning this woman who the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time were using as a tool to trap HIM or trick HIM? No, Jesus followed His Fathers Law and taught for others to do the same.

Lev. 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Which is EXACTLY what Jesus did.

The Jewish leaders considered that Jesus broke the law - i.e disregarded the words given by Moses - and eventually had him killed.

Yes they did. "We have a Law, and by our Law HE should die". Their "commandments of Men" condemned Jesus to death. Their "Handwriting or ordinances" was against Jesus, Paul, Jews and Gentiles. And they did in fact have HIM killed. But HE rose from the dead, exposing their Law, Making a show of them and their Law openly, and Triumphed over them in it. Because God's Law did NOT Condemn Jesus to death, therefore their Law could not hold HIM.

I know you are just repeating popular doctrines you have been convinced of. I hope you might consider what the Scriptures say here, and be renewed in your mind.

God Bless.

 

[HARK!]

No, he told the Jews - not Gentiles.

He told his disciples.

 

[HARK!]

Jesus also claimed the right to forgive sin - This upset the Jews as it implied equality with God.

Sin? What's that?

 

[AbbaLove]

Sure, Jesus is greater then Moses, as the potter is greater then the pot made from clay. All Moses represented was God's Word (the Potter) whose Word we are given to follow.

The seat of the Son of YHVH is now greater than the seat of Moses since 33 AD. Moses was disobedience (lacking trust) and thus not allowed to enter the Promised Land. On the other hand the perfect Lamb of YHVH was obedient in all ways trusting/faithful to the end and now seated at the right hand of Father GOD.

The "seat of Jesus" is far superior to the "seat of Moses" The New Covenant beginning with the Book of John and continuing with the Acts of the Apostles and the writings of Paul are superior to the 613 commands and statutes of Moses which the Hebrews/Jews found difficulty in following. The pagan non-Jewish gentiles who later would become the first Christians at Antioch, if anything distracted the Jews to the point of worshiping pagan idols and being led away as captives.

Acts 15:10 (Peter, the "rock" speaking at the Jerusalem Council)
“Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Matthew 16:18
I also tell you this: you are Kefa,” [which means ‘Rock,’] “and on this rock I will build my Community, and the gates of Sh’ol will not overcome it.​

 

[LoveGodsWord]

​

The seat of the Son of YHVH is now greater than the seat of Moses since 33 AD. Moses was disobedience (lacking trust) and thus not allowed to enter the Promised Land. On the other hand the perfect Lamb of YHVH was obedient in all ways trusting to the end and now seated at the right hand of Father GOD.

The "seat of Jesus" is far superior to the "seat of Moses" The New Covenant beginning with the Book of John and continuing with the Acts of the Apostles and the writings of Paul are superior to the 613 commands and statutes of Moses which the Hebrews/Jews. The pagan non-Jewish gentiles who later would become the first Christians at Antioch, if anything distracting the Jews to the point of worshiping idols and being led away as captives.

Acts 15:10 (Peter, the "rock" speaking at the Jerusalem Council)
“Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Matthew 16:18
I also tell you this: you are Kefa,” [which means ‘Rock,’] “and on this rock I will build my Community, and the gates of Sh’ol will not overcome it.​

If Jesus is the living Word of God *John 1:1-4; 14 and the Word of God was given to Moses before the coming of JESUS, to give to God's people, how is the Word of God greater then the Word of God that points to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for all mankind in the new covenant? Physical circumcision was only a shadow law of things to come pointing to a new heart received by faith in those how believe and follow God's Word *Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 pointing to God's new covenant promise foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and made plain in Hebrews 8:10-12.

 

[Gary K]

No, he told the Jews - not Gentiles.
And certainly not those who would come to hear about him many centuries later, in other countries that did not have Moses' seat.

Obey Moses if you wish, but Jesus is greater and has fulfilled the law given by Moses.
Moses, a man, was an intermediary between God and the Hebrews at Sinai and told them of the covenant that God was making with them.
Jesus, God, is the mediator of the NEW Covenant that God made, and sealed with his Son's blood.

Hmmmm.... Jesus said that those who do not believe Moses can't believe in Him.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sin? What's that?

Would you like to explain why you are asking the question?

 

[HARK!]

Would you like to explain why you are asking the question?

I'm asking to see if you know the answer.

Take your time; and it's an open book test.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I cant remember applying for this examination...

There must be some mistake !

However I seem to remember that it is anything not of faith...

 

[mmksparbud]

Would you like to explain why you are asking the question?

I also would like to know what you think sin is. Why would you object to answering?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I also would like to know what you think sin is. Why would you object to answering?

I answered - Sin is anything that is not of faith... Rom 14:23