Why do Christians never pray for impossible things?

[bling]

If actions tell if one believes in God or not, then Christians don't believe in God anymore than atheists do.

2) There is a difference between "not believing in gods" and "believing there are no gods".

True for many

 

[cvanwey]

Miraculously healing: a missing limbs, cerebral palsy and Downs at this time, would provide irrefutable scientific proof of the Christian God’s existent to at least some people without their need for faith in God’s existence. Faith is needed and required for salvation, so for the sack of these skeptics<God will not miraculously heal these individuals.

Again, you are making all of this up.

1. In regards to the topic of prayer, God makes no such disclosures, caveats, or exceptions to His given rule(s).

2. Furthermore, if anecdotal testimonials are to be taken for face value, I have relatives who claimed no prior faith, whom also later claimed to have miraculous prayers answered on their behalves; for which they then stated it could only have come from the God for which the other person prayed for them.

3. I myself had nothing but faith for over 3 decades. I also asked for God's revelation in prayer. I never received as such.

4. I have faith now that you can pray for God to reveal His existence to me, in a way I would know He is real. It's plausible I would then completely change my outlook on His Word. So what the heck are you waiting for?

5. God would have to be playing favorites, to decline such earnest prayer requests, to preserve the possibility that some may later come through pure faith.

6. How much faith is enough faith, and for how long is it necessary before He grants any proof to the pre-faithful?

7. If God wants relationships with His creation, seems quite odd He wants to remain so well hidden.

8. God states there will be a time where 'every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.' Are you saying He will reject all of the ones whom received this given knowledge, which then turn all into followers, whom did not first possess faith? Because the Bible does not say this?

With the “Hell gun” at your head, you are not making a really choice with likely alternatives. The hell gun goes away with believing in God and not knowledge of God.

This would be to assume that the ONLY reason I would follow, was to avoid hell. Maybe if He revealed Himself to me, and struck up a relationship, for which I asked for decades BTW; maybe 'the hell gun' would not be the reason I would ultimately worship Him

If you start with faith then knowledge is great.

Knowledge without faith is disbelief and will not produce righteous worship.

Yet again, you are making all of this up. The Bible does not look to require this... Please also revisit the 8 listed reasons above.

You look at a tree and say: “I do not know how life could come about from nonliving chemicals, so God could be the answer.” What controls what you believe about “How life came about”?

Good question...

I would say, give me the evidence for YHWH specifically, and I will then discern if this evidence leads specifically to YHWH, or just remains to support generic deism The Bible certainly did not get me there. Praying certainly did not ever get me there. Even when I was faithful for years and years.

As it stands now, at best, I could now and currently call myself a very skeptical and very generic deist? Assuming that I am, please bridge the gap from that; to YHWH.

You need faith and not knowledge. Faith/trust is a humbling activity and humility is need to accept pure charity as charity and you must be willing to humbly accept pure charity as charity for God to shower you with wonderful undeserving gifts. God is not going to force His charity (Love) you like at some shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun.

Again, I had faith for decades. Again, you are making all of this up. And again, you look to be trying to wiggle your way out of a very simple request. Again, please do not worry about my fate. Again, according to the Bible, disbelief equals hell, 100% of the time. I currently possess disbelief. Knowledge, which then might later lead to a relationship, repent, and worship, has possibilities. Maybe I would fall down this path? You have nothing to loose to pray for me.

I have asked you several times. The only conclusion I now take away, from these given responses, is in line with the gist of the OP...

Christians do not pray for certain things, because it's likely they too do not have enough 'faith' to think YHWH actually exists.

All you look to be doing here now, is providing blank excuses, to avoid performing a very simple and very quick request.

I will no longer ask you to pray for me. I have a sneaking suspicion you believe there may not be such a God to actually answer. What does this actually say about YOUR claim to the topic of faith?

You are being asked to place your faith in the most likely logical alternative and not something totally illogical.

You've missed my point. You cannot simply will a current belief change. You first need a catalyst or evidence of some sort.

I currently am in the disbelief camp, for YHWH specifically. I have explained why. --- I had faith for decades. God never provided my many repeated requests for revelation. I ultimately stopped trying. And now I have doubt.

We are talking about the choice between alternatives (God exists or God does not exist) and which is the more likely.

This thread has been trying to show one supporting evidence for “God not existing”, being the fact, He does not seem to answer a pray that would give scientific verifiable proof for at least some people for His existence.

I have just pointed out the logical reason, why God has not and will not do such a thing.

This thread is to show exactly what YOU are doing. Which is not praying for anything which could actually demonstrate His existence. Which means that maybe YOU do not really have enough faith He is real

And no, I have given you 8 counter points above, which likely debunks your blank assertion as to "why" God will not answer such prayer(s).

 

[bling]

Again, you are making all of this up.

1. In regards to the topic of prayer, God makes no such disclosures, caveats, or exceptions to His given rule(s).

2. Furthermore, if anecdotal testimonials are to be taken for face value, I have relatives who claimed no prior faith, whom also later claimed to have miraculous prayers answered on their behalves; for which they then stated it could only have come from the God for which the other person prayed for them.

3. I myself had nothing but faith for over 3 decades. I also asked for God's revelation in prayer. I never received as such.

4. I have faith now that you can pray for God to reveal His existence to me, in a way I would know He is real. It's plausible I would then completely change my outlook on His Word. So what the heck are you waiting for?

5. God would have to be playing favorites, to decline such earnest prayer requests, to preserve the possibility that some may later come through pure faith.

6. How much faith is enough faith, and for how long is it necessary before He grants any proof to the pre-faithful?

7. If God wants relationships with His creation, seems quite odd He wants to remain so well hidden.

8. God states there will be a time where 'every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.' Are you saying He will reject all of the ones whom received this given knowledge, which then turn all into followers, whom did not first possess faith? Because the Bible does not say this?



This would be to assume that the ONLY reason I would follow, was to avoid hell. Maybe if He revealed Himself to me, and struck up a relationship, for which I asked for decades BTW; maybe 'the hell gun' would not be the reason I would ultimately worship Him



Yet again, you are making all of this up. The Bible does not look to require this... Please also revisit the 8 listed reasons above.



Good question...

I would say, give me the evidence for YHWH specifically, and I will then discern if this evidence leads specifically to YHWH, or just remains to support generic deism The Bible certainly did not get me there. Praying certainly did not ever get me there. Even when I was faithful for years and years.

As it stands now, at best, I could now and currently call myself a very skeptical and very generic deist? Assuming that I am, please bridge the gap from that; to YHWH.



Again, I had faith for decades. Again, you are making all of this up. And again, you look to be trying to wiggle your way out of a very simple request. Again, please do not worry about my fate. Again, according to the Bible, disbelief equals hell, 100% of the time. I currently possess disbelief. Knowledge, which then might later lead to a relationship, repent, and worship, has possibilities. Maybe I would fall down this path? You have nothing to loose to pray for me.

I have asked you several times. The only conclusion I now take away, from these given responses, is in line with the gist of the OP...

Christians do not pray for certain things, because it's likely they too do not have enough 'faith' to think YHWH actually exists.

All you look to be doing here now, is providing blank excuses, to avoid performing a very simple and very quick request.

I will no longer ask you to pray for me. I have a sneaking suspicion you believe there may not be such a God to actually answer. What does this actually say about YOUR claim to the topic of faith?



You've missed my point. You cannot simply will a current belief change. You first need a catalyst or evidence of some sort.

I currently am in the disbelief camp, for YHWH specifically. I have explained why. --- I had faith for decades. God never provided my many repeated requests for revelation. I ultimately stopped trying. And now I have doubt.



This thread is to show exactly what YOU are doing. Which is not praying for anything which could actually demonstrate His existence. Which means that maybe YOU do not really have enough faith He is real

And no, I have given you 8 counter points above, which likely debunks your blank assertion as to "why" God will not answer such prayer(s).

This has all been addressed in previous posts and I have nothing more to add.

 

[cvanwey]

This has all been addressed in previous posts and I have nothing more to add.

Thank you for the exchange. I guess all whom read this looong exchange, can make up their own minds as to whether or not your assertions make any sense at all.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Thank you for the exchange. I guess all whom read this looong exchange, can make up their own minds as to whether or not your assertions make any sense at all.

I think we've reached the end of this thread with a pretty clear answer.
Christians never pray for impossible things because they know they won't get them.
The question now is, do they consciously know that God doesn't exist, or unconsciously?

 

[bling]

I think we've reached the end of this thread with a pretty clear answer.
Christians never pray for impossible things because they know they won't get them.
The question now is, do they consciously know that God doesn't exist, or unconsciously?

The indwelling Holy Spirit is the Christian's guarantee and not a positive answer to a request which should not be asked for.

 

[Suggestion Box]

In this post is a thorough description of a Christian praying for a seemingly impossible thing, and having that prayer answered affirmatively.

In this post is a link to a book written by a modern-day author who cites many examples of Christians praying for seemingly impossible things, also having those prayers answered in the affirmative.

I have read another book by Nik Ripken (the precursor to the above, called "The Insanity of God"), in which he interviews several Christians who attest to miraculous events which occur after Christians have prayed for things which would have been impossible had God not intervened.

Here is another book, by Bob Fu, which also attests to first-hand accounts of the miraculous, including his unlikely escape from China to spare the life of his 2nd child.

This book details miraculous events as well. Author Eric Metaxas has a show/podcast, in which he regularly (usually on 'Miracle Mondays') features interviews with people who can personally attest to, or at least provide second-hand reports, of miraculous answers to prayer. One of these recently was about a Norwegian boy who could not eat anything because of a medical condition. He had to be fed intravenously, and he was in his last days. Medicine had no cure for this. He was going to die. His parents had prayed for miraculous healing plenty, but the boy had not been healed. They decided to take one last vacation together before the boy's death, so they traveled to California to go to a Christian conference. There, someone prayed for the boy to heal. Later that day, he asked someone for a bread stick. They would often give him food, though he could not eat it, because he liked to smell it. They gave him a bread stick and though nothing of it. Later, he asked again for another bread stick. They asked him what he did with the first one, and he said he had eaten it. His disease had been cured - from that point on, he was able to eat normally, and he did not die.

Other interviews with the above author have featured Ken Fish, who personally attests to having prayed for miraculous healings (like limbs instantly growing back), and seen them happen.

I realize that these are not everyday occurrences. However, it simply cannot be said that Christians never pray for impossible things. Christians often pray for impossible things, and above are some of those people who are doing just that. If you are interested in Healing Prayer, many churches have a specific ministry devoted to that. If you need prayer for a specific ailment, please let me know and I will pray for you, even if the healing seems impossible.

Please remember that we do not control God. Sometimes God says no, and sometimes he says yes. It doesn't precisely depend on how I go about asking - but there are ways to ask that God favors, and there are ways of asking that he dismisses. I can't give you a formula, because I am not in control of whether healing happens or not. But quite often he does say yes, even to impossible requests, because God can do the impossible. He also commands Christians to pray for impossible things to happen. Many people did this in the book of Acts, many have done this throughout history, and many continue to this day. Yes, there are many small miracles that might easily be called coincidence, but there are also big miracles that manifestly could not have happened if God had not intervened, even in this present time.

One more thing: remember, "If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.” (Luke 16:31). So I think it is unlikely (but not impossible) that God would provide a miracle purely for the sake of proving himself to a nonbeliever. His objective is not to prove himself to us, but to change our hearts from bad to good. Moses and the Prophets is an allusion to Holy Scripture. God draws people to himself who are willing, and he uses his own documentation to do so.

 

[cvanwey]

Please remember that we do not control God. Sometimes God says no, and sometimes he says yes.

Sure. If one prays for cancer, getting a new job, etc, then He seems to come to the aid of petitionary and/or intercessory prayer request(s) quite often, with an answer of --> YES.

However, if there is the same expressed prayer(s) for amputees, cerebral palsy, downs syndrome, diabetes 1, and a few others, then it looks as though the response is 100% of the time --> NO

 

[rstrats]

Actually, prayer itself seems to be an impossible thing. There are probably several hundred prayers being said around the world at any given moment . Even if the supreme being dedicated all of His time to nothing but hearing prayers how can He keep all of them separate so He can make a decision on each one? And the prayers keep coming 24/7.

 

[cvanwey]

Actually, prayer itself seems to be an impossible thing. There are probably several hundred prayers being said around the world at any given moment . Even if the supreme being dedicated all of His time to nothing but hearing prayers how can He keep all of them separate so He can make a decision on each one? And the prayers keep coming 24/7.

God is said to be outside of space and time. God is also said to be omnipresent. So your argument may contradict Christian claims.

But regardless of how many requests are made, don't you find it a little suspect that He perpetually always ignores the petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests of amputees, cerebral palsy, downs, and diabetes 1?

 

[Tree of Life]

Interesting, what you see if you observe Christians praying.
They pray for things which, really, might happen anyway, if they get lucky.

They pray for a friend to be healed. Well, people do recover from illnesses all the time. But you never see Christians praying for a person's leg to grow back.
Is it because they know God wouldn't do this (even though - if He exists - He certainly has the power to)?

Christians pray for people who have suffered a bereavement to find peace. Well, of course, people usually do get over their feelings of grief, sooner or later. But they hardly ever pray for a person to be brought back to life.
Christians claim that God is quite capable of bringing people back to life.
Do they not ask Him to because they know that God doesn't actually answer prayers for impossible things?

Christians pray for people suffering cancer to have the strength to face their ordeal. Maybe they even pray for the cancer to vanish. But they never pray for all cancer all over the world to vanish and never return. I wonder why?
Maybe they know that, no matter how hard they pray, that just isn't going to happen.

Um. Do Christians actually secretly know that God isn't real?
They certainly don't seem to act like He's real.

Very confusing.

The Bible teaches us what we ought to pray for. I suspect that Christians don't pray for things like this because we know from other parts of Scripture that certain things aren't going to happen until Jesus returns to completely restore the world. We are invited to pray for sick people to be healed and become well. But to pray for an end to world hunger or poverty or for an end to all sickness would be what we call an "over-realized eschatology". One day God will put an end to all these things, but until Jesus returns we will always have the poor among us - as he taught us. Prayer is not an antidote to end all suffering here and now. It would be biblically illiterate to pray in such a way.

 

[cvanwey]

The Bible teaches us what we ought to pray for. I suspect that Christians don't pray for things like this because we know from other parts of Scripture that certain things aren't going to happen until Jesus returns to completely restore the world. We are invited to pray for sick people to be healed and become well. But to pray for an end to world hunger or poverty or for an end to all sickness would be what we call an "over-realized eschatology". One day God will put an end to all these things, but until Jesus returns we will always have the poor among us - as he taught us. Prayer is not an antidote to end all suffering here and now. It would be biblically illiterate to pray in such a way.

Nonsense.

Countless individual petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests are made to cure their loved ones of cancer, which 'look' to be 'fulfilled.' And yet, we also know cancer can go into remission, and/or can now be treated by humans.

Alternatively; amputees, cerebral palsy, downs, and diabetes 1 neither go into remission, nor do we humans currently possess a cure.

The Bible does NOT tell the reader which conditions/illnesses/afflictions it is okay to pray for, verses the ones not to pray for.... The Bible does not distinguish in detail.

You are instead completely rationalizing, haphazardly at will, to serve in belief preservation; nothing more.

Thank you.

I state "thank you', because it's more that likely you will either not respond, or, not challenge what I actually stated.

 

[rstrats]

[QUOTE cvanwey,

But regardless of how many requests are made, don't you find it a little suspect that He perpetually always ignores the petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests of amputees, cerebral palsy, downs, and diabetes 1?[/QUOTE]

I'll have to take your word for it because I have no information with regard to it always being the case.