Null/ please delete

[Dave L]

No. The tree or vine is Christ, and the natural branches are Israelites, and the grafted in branches are Gentiles.

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” (John 15:5).

Israelites are not Gentiles as you claimed earlier. We (Gentiles) are grafted onto the tree or vine of Christ. This is why we are not to boast against the original branches (Israel). For we can also be cut off if we do not continue in His goodness.

“Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?” (Romans 11:18-24).

All of Acts is full of natural branch converts. Later the gentiles too.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All of Acts is full of natural branch converts. Later the gentiles too.

No. The Gentiles are not natural branches. They are grafted in branches. They are not the original branches. It's why we are told not to boast against the original branches in Romans 11:18.

 

[Dave L]

No. The Gentiles are not natural branches. They are grafted in branches. They are not the original branches.

Natural branches are the 8000 Jewish converts to Christ in the opening of Acts.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No. The Gentiles are not natural branches. They are grafted in branches. They are not the original branches. It's why we are told not to boast against the original branches in Romans 11:18.

reread his post as he makes the distinction between the natural (jews) and later the gentiles.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Natural branches are the 8000 Jewish converts to Christ in the opening of Acts.

So then Gentiles are not Israel.

 

[Dave L]

So then Gentiles are not Israel.

Jesus is Israel, we are the people called by his name which includes BELIEVING Jews and Gentiles alike.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

So then Gentiles are not Israel.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel

Romans 2:28-29
A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The laws are not currently written on any hearts, all of us still sin.

And pastors are still needed now to teach us to know the Lord.

So no, the new covenant cannot be made now.

But I understand You believe otherwise. That is fine, we can agree to disagree

Israel as a nation has not accepting the New Covenant (i.e. New Testament) that has already been made. God needs to still make an agreement with Israel in their accepting such terms. It does not mean the New Testament is not in effect currently.

2 Corinthians 3:6 says,
“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel

Romans 2:28-29
A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Yes, I understand that one can be spiritually an Israelite by their adherance to the New Covenant in accepting God's grace and in living holy unto the Lord. But that does not mean they are physically an Israelite and or that they are given the land promises that are exclusive to physical Israelites. A Gentile is still an unnatural branch that is grafted on to the tree. Gentiles are not the natural branches. Israelites are the natural branches.

Do you want to know how a Gentile will one day become an Israelite? In the bodily resurrection of Christ: Faithful believers will have the likeness of Christ's DNA.

 

[Dave L]

Israel as a nation has not accepting the New Covenant (i.e. New Testament) that has already been made. God needs to still make an agreement with Israel in their accepting such terms. It does not mean the New Testament is not in effect currently.

2 Corinthians 3:6 says,
“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”

How can this be? They became gentiles when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. So they are not Israel but in name only.

And we are to preach the gospel to the whole gentile world until the end of time. This includes preaching to them too under this current definition.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

How can this be? They became gentiles when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. So they are not Israel but in name only.

And we are to preach the gospel to the whole gentile world until the end of time. This includes preaching to them too under this current definition.

I'm dispensational like BH but not to the extent that I do not allow for other possibilities. Especially since its not a salvific issue. Regardless of ones end times position we are to be ready for His return at all times, that is essential.

So both sides have plenty of scripture whether or not to believe in a literal Israel, a Spiritual Israel or both.

I'm dogmatic on the essentials and show grace on the non essential.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dave L]

I'm dispensational like BH but not to the extent that I do not allow for other possibilities. Especially since its not a salvific issue. Regardless of ones end times position we are to be ready for His return at all times, that is essential.

So both sides have plenty of scripture whether or not to believe in a literal Israel, a Spiritual Israel or both.

hope this helps !!!

Could it be salvific?..... Jesus taught the gospel of the "Amillennial" Kingdom that most reject today. In favor of the Pharisee's popular premillennial kingdom. This is why they rejected Jesus.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Could it be salvific?..... Jesus taught the gospel of the "Amillennial" Kingdom that most reject today. In favor of the Pharisee's popular premillennial kingdom. This is why they rejected Jesus.

There is no prerequisite in Scripture making one receiving Eternal Life dependent upon a right understanding of the end times. Its solely based upon the Person of Christ and as 1 Corinthians lays out the gospel that Jesus lived, died for our sins, was buried and raised from the dead on the 3rd day and appeared bodily to many people and groups over 40 days and finally last of all appeared to Paul.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dave L]

There is no prerequisite in Scripture making one receiving Eternal Life dependent upon a right understanding of the end times. Its solely based upon the Person of Christ and as 1 Corinthians lays out the gospel that Jesus lived, died for our sins, was buried and raised from the dead on the 3rd day and appeared bodily to many people and groups over 40 days and finally last of all appeared to Paul.

hope this helps !!!

It still is disbelief and rejection of the gospel of the kingdom and a preference for the blind Pharisees premillennial kingdom. Dangerous ground if you ask me.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

It still is disbelief and rejection of the gospel of the kingdom and a preference for the blind Pharisees premillennial kingdom. Dangerous ground if you ask me.

I understand your position but I will have to agree to disagree, no hard feelings I hope.

 

[Dave L]

I understand your position but I will have to agree to disagree, no hard feelings I hope.

No, but consider the Church condemned premillennialism as heresy, establishing Amillennialism. And Dispensationalism has only been around since the 1800s. It is a creation made from an old heresy by the Jesuits to deceive the Reformed that spilled over into Evangelicalism. I have lots to say on this if you would like to start a new thread.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No, but consider the Church condemned premillennialism as heresy, establishing Amillennialism. And Dispensationalism has only been around since the 1800s. It is a creation made from an old heresy by the Jesuits to deceive the Reformed that spilled over into Evangelicalism. I have lots to say on this if you would like to start a new thread.

FYI- I'm not dogmatic brother.

 

[Dave L]

FYI- I'm not dogmatic brother.

You should study this before you commit to it. Start with the Daniel gap. No scripture supports it and the whole scheme rests on it (pure silence).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The laws are not currently written on any hearts, all of us still sin.

Yet, the Bible says this...

“Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.” (Hebrews 10:22).

“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24).

“Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:” (1 Timothy 1:5).

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You should study this before you commit to it. Start with the Daniel gap. No scripture supports it and the whole scheme rests on it (pure silence).

Dave I've been studying since 1980 as an FYI.

I have Ladds book the blessed hope and Clause on the meaning of the millennium among many others by good scholars that are not premil or pre trib.