Can you be saved not believing Jesus is God?

[Kenny'sID]

Of course we can.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Of course we can.

I believe a person can initially be saved without knowing about the Trinity (or Jesus being God), but once that truth is revealed to them, they cannot deny it. For Jesus said, to whom much is given, much is required.

Jesus said, "if ye believe not that I am [he],
ye shall die in your sins." (John 8:24).

57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
(John 8:57-59).

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:14).

Jesus is the great "I AM."
The Jews went ape crazy nuts and wanted to stone Jesus when they heard Him say that He was the great "I AM" from Exodus 3.

Jesus essentially was saying that if you do not believe He is the "I am," you will die in your sins. The word "he" is not in the Greek in John 8:24.

“I AM” is a statement of being GOD (See again Exodus 3:14 and read very slowly a few times). Jesus was essentially saying that if you do not believe He is the “I AM” (i.e. GOD), you will die in your sins.

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him
must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24).

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8).

We cannot worship false gods, and still be saved.
We can only worship the one true God in spirit and in truth.
The idea that Jesus is not GOD is a false Jesus. It's another Jesus.

 

[nolidad]

I believe so, because Bible doesn’t give that condition for salvation.

In reality it does.

Romans 10:9
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


In its historic context, Lord here is one who is divine.

I believe in leeway simply because of the messed up doctrine that has been indoctrinated into the folks of the Watchtower and LDS. Their concept of Lord is very muddled and convoluted. But if they trust in the death and REsurrection of Jesus, then I am confident the Holy Spirit will undo the mess that many cults make of Jesus identity.

Salvation always must come first, then growth in biblical doctrine.

 

[Yesha]

No. And I'm quite disturbed that nearly half of the votes (at the time of this post) coming from members of a website called Christian Forums would say yes.

Jesus explicitly tells us that unless one believes that "I am he" they will die in their sins.

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” - John 8:24 (ESV)​

What does he mean when he says "I am he"? He tells us later in the same chapter.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” - John 8:58 (ESV)​

It is very, very clear that Jesus is claiming to be the "I AM" who appeared to Moses at the burning bush in Exodus 3:14 who is none other than God himself.

 

[Heavenhome]

What do you think? Can a person that believes Jesus is the Son, but not God be saved?

No , other religions also believe in Jesus but the sticking point is that they do not acknowledge Him as God.

If you don't believe Jesus is God then you don't believe Jesus Himself who said:
"I and the Father are One".

You either believe Jesus as He Himself says He is or you don't truly believe in Him at all.

 

[zoidar]

No , other religions also believe in Jesus but the sticking point is that they do not acknowledge Him as God.

If you don't believe Jesus is God then you don't believe Jesus Himself who said:
"I and the Father are One".

You either believe Jesus as He Himself says He is or you don't truly believe in Him at all.

Well, other religions don't believe Jesus died for our sins. Won't help you much if you believe Jesus is God, but deny his death for our sins.

 

[Heavenhome]

My point is that you believe Jesus as He Himself says He is or you may as well join the other religions.

How can Jesus give anyone salvation if He is not God?

 

[Albion]

No. And I'm quite disturbed that nearly half of the votes (at the time of this post) coming from members of a website called Christian Forums would say yes.

Jesus explicitly tells us that unless one believes that "I am he" they will die in their sins.

While there may be a glimmer of hope for some people that there will be something that we do not presently know about this, it's a hope that has virtually no support from the Bible, that's right.

 

[zoidar]

My point is that you believe Jesus as He Himself says He is or you may as well join the other religions.

How can Jesus give anyone salvation if He is not God?

That's not the question. The question is if you can be saved without believing he is God. There are people that believe in him dying for our sins as God's Son, without believing in him being God.

 

[DarkGalaxy501]

John Piper is WRONG. Jesus Christ is RIGHT. There is no word in Piper's article about the requirement for the sinner to REPENT of their sins. Jesus says very clearly in Mark 1:15, "REPENT AND BELIEVE"!!!

Repent should be something that is obvious in the christian world. It is a necessity and must. I believe that this article was written to focus on another aspect of salvation. Just like when you study cell. You can look at its organelles or you can look at its atomic structure. There are many ways to look into something. John Piper was looking at topic in another way to address a concern in the community.

In term of John Piper being right or wrong, im not sure. Due to a career change I havent been able to see him as much as i had in the past. Nonetheless when I did see him, he did seem to be on point on quite a few things.

 

[DarkGalaxy501]

Repent should be something that is obvious in the christian world. It is a necessity and must. I believe that this article was written to focus on another aspect of salvation. Just like when you study cell. You can look at its organelles or you can look at its atomic structure. There are many ways to look into something. John Piper was looking at topic in another way to address a concern in the community.

In term of John Piper being right or wrong, im not sure. Due to a career change I havent been able to see him as much as i had in the past. Nonetheless when I did see him, he did seem to be on point on quite a few things.

But let's not get carried away by different preachers. We all know that it is imperative and a must for us to read the bible daily and to pray. We must grow in the things of God and mature in the faith no matter what.

 

[Hazelelponi]

BSofChrist

perhaps you shouldn't abbreviate his screen name in this manner... it becomes impolite.

 

[chad kincham]

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)

“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw [drag as in fishing net] him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:44 (KJV 1900)

God saves everyone against their will by giving them the new birth so they can love and believe in him.

“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

Easily disproved.

Free will, and being able to resist the drawing of the Holy Spirit is absolutely and unequivocally provable in scripture!

Reformed dogma claims God unconditionally elects to salvation, that grace is irresistible, and therefore the Holy Spirit is irresistible.


This is easily seen to be false.


Jesus came only for Israel. Matthew 15:24.


They were God’s elect. Isaiah 45:4


Yet His own, that He came for, REJECTED Him. John 1:11:


Joh 1:11 He came unto HIS OWN, and his own received him NOT.


Jesus, who is God, yearned for His own elect people whom He came for, to come to Him - but they refused:


Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!


This is impossible in Calvinism - for the elect, who Jesus came for, to be able to resist and reject Him and salvation - yet they did just that.


Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.


Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken to YOU: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


This happened because God gave us free will, and the Holy Spirit is resistible - there is no such thing as irresistible grace.


Stephen preached to the same elect Israelites (Isaiah 45:4) who Jesus came for (John 1:11) who He yearned would come to Him (Matthew 23:37) and told them WHY they killed the prophets God sent, and rejected and killed their own Messiah when He came for them: because they RESIST the Holy Spirit.


Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST THE HOLY GHOST : as your fathers did, so do ye.


Act 7:52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered (Jesus).


The Holy Spirit, without which no man can say Jesus is Lord, is resistible, because of free will.


Faith comes by hearing Gods word Romans 10:17, not by first being regenerated, and grace is resistible because the Holy Spirit is resistible.


Salvation is not guaranteed from having faith, man has freewill to receive Jesus John. 1:12, or resist the drawing by the HS and reject Jesus, as the elect Israelis did, when Jesus came for His OWN John 1:11.


There is NO irresistible grace or unconditional Election.


Israel, Gods elect, resisted the Holy Spirit and rejected Jesus, their savior.


As Jesus said to them:


Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 5:40 And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life.

 

[chad kincham]

But all born again believers overcome.

Jesus warns a church in Revelation to repent, and tells them if they overcome, He wont erase their names from the book of life:


Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


And this is the church that is claimed to be the reformed Church, yet Jesus starts off warning them they are dead, that most of them had defiled their white robes (which represent being righteous), and warned to repent - ending by telling them if they overcome, their names will remain in the book of life.


Overcoming is after salvation, and there’s no guarantee we will be an overcomer.

Pure white raiment (robes) are what the righteous saints are given, and are part of their wedding attire.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


Believers get white robes, but can defile their robes - if they defile their robes, their names are blotted out of the book of life.


Most of those in the church at Sardis had defiled their white robes:


Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Jesus also warned some churches in Revelation that many of them had soiled their robes, and some had lost them completely, and were naked.


Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


What’s sad is those church members in Revelation 3:17-18 were naked, but thought they were clothed.


They did something to defile their garments, that they mistakenly thought was ok with God.


In other words, they believed they could live a sinful life, and remain in Christ.


They were deceived by OSAS into thinking grace was a license to sin, with no eternal consequences.

Again, there’s no guarantee that believers will overcome, per Jesus’ warning to the churches in Revelation.

 

[Mark Quayle]

He doesn’t operate as three persons. That’s modalism. He is three Persons.

Misspoke. My bad.

But he is one being, God himself, in three persons. There is no room to give anyone an excuse to say there are three Gods.

 

[Mark Quayle]

no, because there are some like Piper, who teach the heresy, that all a sinners needs to do, is "believe" and there is no "repentance" invloved, contrary to what God Incarnate teaches!

If you think Piper teaches that repentance is not necessary, think again. You are coming at what he teaches all wrong. Remember, Regeneration causes the change, or even IS the change. Piper is only saying that repentance does not cause the regeneration.

 

[Hammster]

Misspoke. My bad.

But he is one being, God himself, in three persons. There is no room to give anyone an excuse to say there are three Gods.

I was hoping that you had misspoke.

 

[zoidar]

and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
— Mark 1:15

Anyway, I fulfilled your challenge.

If you think Piper teaches that repentance is not necessary, think again. You are coming at what he teaches all wrong. Remember, Regeneration causes the change, or even IS the change. Piper is only saying that repentance does not cause the regeneration.

how, you have failed to show that Piper teaches repentance is from sins!

It can be a problem if we hold a dogm for salvation, instead of actually being saved. I think that was Bond-servant's point, and I agree.

Here's the confusion: What Piper calls repentance, is not repentance at all according to Bond-servant. The same word (repentance) is used, yet they mean very different things. The repentance that Bond-servant talks about, Piper doesn't even mention. So here we have two very different views on what salvation is and how we are saved.

1. There is the view that repentance means acknowlege being a sinner and trust on Christ for salvation. That that's all we have to do to be saved.

2. And then the view to acknowledge being a sinner, be sorry about once sins and pray to God for forgiveness, to receive the Holy Spirit and be born again, saved.

If we have the Holy Spirit we are born again. It is a debate how this happens. I just hope most of us are united in the body of Christ, through the Holy Spirit. Be blessed!

 

[Mark Quayle]

It can be a problem if we hold a dogm for salvation, instead of actually being saved. I think that was Bond-servant's point, and I agree.

Here's the confusion: What Piper calls repentance, is not repentance at all according to Bond-servant. The same word (repentance) is used, yet they mean very different things. The repentance that Bond-servant talks about, Piper doesn't even mention. So here we have two very different views on what salvation is and how we are saved.

1. There is the view that repentance means acknowlege being a sinner and trust on Christ for salvation. That that's all we have to do to be saved.

2. And then the view to acknowledge being a sinner, be sorry about once sins and pray to God for forgiveness, to receive the Holy Spirit and be born again, saved.

If we have the Holy Spirit we are born again. It is a debate how this happens. I just hope most of us are united in the body of Christ, through the Holy Spirit. Be blessed!

I thought repentance was about turning your back on sin, changing your mind concerning sin. What you have described sounds like confession --not repentance.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It can be a problem if we hold a dogm for salvation, instead of actually being saved. I think that was Bond-servant's point, and I agree.

Here's the confusion: What Piper calls repentance, is not repentance at all according to Bond-servant. The same word (repentance) is used, yet they mean very different things. The repentance that Bond-servant talks about, Piper doesn't even mention. So here we have two very different views on what salvation is and how we are saved.

1. There is the view that repentance means acknowlege being a sinner and trust on Christ for salvation. That that's all we have to do to be saved.

2. And then the view to acknowledge being a sinner, be sorry about once sins and pray to God for forgiveness, to receive the Holy Spirit and be born again, saved.

If we have the Holy Spirit we are born again. It is a debate how this happens. I just hope most of us are united in the body of Christ, through the Holy Spirit. Be blessed!

#1 and #2 do not appear to be all that different because they both can make room for a person to justify sin with the thinking they are saved. But believers have to confess and forsake their sin in order to receive mercy (Proverbs 28:13). A person acknowleding they are a sinner can be taken not as a one time event when we first come to Christ, but it can be wrongfully taken to mean that we must always commit mortal sin as a way of life. If this is what you meant, I do not believe that such a view is biblical or moral. To say we are currently a sinner now in a our walk with God does not compute. There is no point of even thinking about God if one thinks they will remain as a sinner. God and sin do not mix.

Anyways, getting back on topic: Do you honestly believe a person will be saved if they deny that Jesus is God. Ignorance of such a truth is one thing (and I believe they would be saved in ignorance), but a denial of this truth is another thing altogether. I do not see how a person can be saved and yet deny how Jesus is God. Worshiping a Jesus who is not God is worshiping another Jesus. Can a person be saved by believing in another Jesus who is not of the Bible? I would say.... “no.” Then again, I shouldn't be surprised people think otherwise. People want to just do their own thing and think their own way these days. They do not want to submit to what God's Word says. They like to just pick and choose what parts they like.

Jesus said, “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (Luke 13:24).

I don't think worshiping another Jesus by denying that He is God fits what this verse says. We have to STRIVE to enter in at the strait gate (i.e. the narrow gate). For many will seek to enter in, and they will not be able to.