Those Who Abide Under Wrath

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Mr. M

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Children of disobedience abide under the wrath of God.
They are children of wrath by nature.
They hold down or suppress the Truth in unrighteousness.


Ephesians 2:
1 And you who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to
the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in
the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature
children of wrath
, just as the others.

John 3:36. He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not
believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Romans 1:18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Ephesians 5:6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things
the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

A Closing Prayer Of Paul
2 Corinthians 13:
7
Now I pray to God that you do no evil, not that we should appear approved,
but that you should do what is honorable, though we may seem disqualified.
8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
 

RickReads

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Due to some of the recent activity on this board the status of these people has been on my mind. It began with some back and forth over the status of children and so I`ve had my eye out for scriptures on the issue. I noticed this one just a few days ago and I think it just about can be considered conclusive.

John 9:41 "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

Usually, I am dismissive of one verse theology but I think it`s pretty safe in this instance to believe that Jesus establishes a spiritual principle in this verse. A baby or a small child or even an incapacitated adult that lacks the capacity to see what sin is will not be charged with sins in the judgment.

I see further confirmation of this truth in verses that declare the devil to be the father of the lost. Clearly, they don`t become the devils until after they become accountable for sins.

Opponents of God`s Omniscience object, saying God would not create a person predestined to become lost but I think it is clear that no one begins life condemned. People earn it as they grow up and choose the devil for a father.
 
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Mr. M

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Due to some of the recent activity on this board the status of these people has been on my mind. It began with some back and forth over the status of children and so I`ve had my eye out for scriptures on the issue. I noticed this one just a few days ago and I think it just about can be considered conclusive.

John 9:41 "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

Usually, I am dismissive of one verse theology but I think it`s pretty safe in this instance to believe that Jesus establishes a spiritual principle in this verse. A baby or a small child or even an incapacitated adult that lacks the capacity to see what sin is will not be charged with sins in the judgment.

I see further confirmation of this truth in verses that declare the devil to be the father of the lost. Clearly, they don`t become the devils until after they become accountable for sins.

Opponents of God`s Omniscience object, saying God would not create a person predestined to become lost but I think it is clear that no one begins life condemned. People earn it as they grow up and choose the devil for a father.
An expression such as "children of wrath", might be better understood as "offspring". Not so much
the young who have no ability to understand sin, but the progeny of the unregenerate carnal nature.
The wrath of God abides on them for not believing in the Son. John 3:36
 
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Mr. M

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Opponents of God`s Omniscience object, saying God would not create a person predestined to become lost but I think it is clear that no one begins life condemned. People earn it as they grow up and choose the devil for a father.
Clearly what is implied here:
John 3:
18
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness
rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 
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RickReads

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An expression such as "children of wrath", might be better understood as "offspring". Not so much
the young who have no ability to understand sin, but the progeny of the unregenerate carnal nature.
The wrath of God abides on them for not believing in the Son. John 3:36

Agreed, I`m just settling accounts within my own mind due to recent disagreement with other site members over God`s Omniscience. I`m glad you started this thread in all seriousness.
 
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RickReads

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Clearly what is implied here:
John 3:
18
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness
rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For some, the age of accountability is the age at which they are knowledgeable enough to make a decision about Jesus.

Those who haven`t heard of Jesus, what of them?
 
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RickReads

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Children of wrath is not referring to small childrens , you can be 50 year old fart and still be Child of Wrath

Basicall all not saved people are Satan's Children , the Children of Wrath

No one here said otherwise. However, statistics show that Christianity loses people when they are young. The older a non-Christian gets the less likely it is that they will convert. The devil comes for his own while they are still kids.
 
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Aaron_Bethlhm

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Those who haven`t heard of Jesus, what of them?
As God's Word Says Directly: Those who are (in) Ekklesia, are judged (as God Directs) by Ekklesia. Those outside of Ekklesia, God judges. (whether to receive Life or Judgment)
 
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Mr. M

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Children of disobedience abide under the wrath of God.
They are children of wrath by nature.
They hold down or suppress the Truth in unrighteousness.
Romans 1:18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
I was thinking this relates directly to these statements made by Yeshua:
Matthew 23:
13
But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven
against men; for you neither go in, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a
pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte,
and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
 
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Aaron_Bethlhm

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I believe all things are possible.
Well, how does all you believe fit with God's Word that God is not a man and cannot lie,
and no sexual pervert nor any idolator will be in heaven ?
 
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RickReads

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Well, how does all you believe fit with God's Word that God is not a man and cannot lie,
and no sexual pervert nor any idolator will be in heaven ?

I believe there will be a few reformed sinners in heaven.
 
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Aaron_Bethlhm

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I believe there will be a few reformed sinners in heaven.
Almost to the point...... Scripture simply says as I posted (almost a quote from Scripture).
If sinners could not be born again, they would never be in heaven.
Jesus came to save the unrighteous, not the righteous.
He Gives New Life (or the Father does/ has granted Jesus to do so) ....
Thus new creations, not cleaned up flesh,
hopefully what you meant by "reformed sinners in heaven" ?
 
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RickReads

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Almost to the point...... Scripture simply says as I posted (almost a quote from Scripture).
If sinners could not be born again, they would never be in heaven.
Jesus came to save the unrighteous, not the righteous.
He Gives New Life (or the Father does/ has granted Jesus to do so) ....
Thus new creations, not cleaned up flesh,
hopefully what you meant by "reformed sinners in heaven" ?

Almost a quote isn`t a quote. Without scripture, it`s just opinion.

"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

God can give mercy to anyone He wants to. He reserved that right in both the Old and New Testaments.
 
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RickReads

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oops..... no.
Everything I posted was perfectly in harmony with Scripture - no contradiction.

No way to confirm it without looking up the scripture. Everybody here says they in perfect harmony with scripture.
 
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Aaron_Bethlhm

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No way to confirm it without looking up the scripture. Everybody here says they in perfect harmony with scripture.
I haven't seen many at all who say they are. Whether they say it or not, I simply check what they say or claim with Scripture to see if it is true. That is the test.

If you check all or any Scripture, you cannot find anything in my posts contradictory to Scripture, because in such grace as the Father gives His children, we are taught by Him, in line with all His Word as He Says.
Thus we all who are abiding in Jesus agree with His Word, agree with Scripture, instead of opposing it.

You can choose today whether to serve God and agree with all His Word, always,
or not.
 
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RickReads

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I haven't seen many at all who say they are. Whether they say it or not, I simply check what they say or claim with Scripture to see if it is true. That is the test.

If you check all or any Scripture, you cannot find anything in my posts contradictory to Scripture, because in such grace as the Father gives His children, we are taught by Him, in line with all His Word as He Says.
Thus we all who are abiding in Jesus agree with His Word, agree with Scripture, instead of opposing it.

You can choose today whether to serve God and agree with all His Word, always,
or not.

Well, to be a little more direct. No one is going to do a study of your remarks when you don`t bother to provide scripture references. I`m not even sure which one you were attempting to quote.
 
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