Grafted In

Strong in Him

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Well not ALL laws are for ALL people...

Well there you go then.
Yet when I've said that some of God's laws are not for Gentiles today because Jesus didn't teach the way to salvation was by keeping the law, you said "well he wrote the Torah and you are saying that it's not true. So is it fake?"

So when you say "law", do you mean JUST Torah or do you also include oral torah?

I've been asking YOU, and Hark, that question.

Threads on here that talk about Gentiles keeping the law speak usually of food laws and the Sabbath. References are given from Exodus and Leviticus that say that these laws were given for all time - and there is usually a discussion/argument about what that means.
If you are talking about God's law and referencing the OT and the laws given at Sinai, then there are many laws written in Leviticus that no one talks about. Do you include these in the law - they were given at Sinai just as much as the 10 commandments and the food laws.

Law, to me, means the books of the law in the OT. I am not Jewish; I don't know what the oral Torah is. And as a Christian, salvation is through Christ, who taught us many things, but not that it is a sin to wear clothes of different fibres etc.
 
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Strong in Him

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I've already explained that stonings are not to be done outside of the jurisdiction of the Judges of YHWH's Court. When the Court is reestablished then the stoning laws will become applicable again.

But that's not what Exodus 35:2 says; it doesn't mention a court.
Also people were supposed to be stoned to death for blasphemy or for committing adultery.
When people found a woman who had been committing adultery, they took her to Jesus; presumably wanting to see if he would uphold the law. If Jesus had, he would have been legally correct. Yet he diffused the situation by saying that whoever was without sin should cast the first stone.
The Pharisees etc stoned Stephen for blasphemy - and Saul approved.
Neither of these cases mention a court of Judges.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yes, THEY - the ones who had been rescued from Egypt, seen his miracles and been protected and provided for in the wilderness, entered into covenant with him. A covenant that they broke repeatedly, by the way.

I have no Jewish heritage; none of my ancestors were rescued from Egypt.
But I HAVE been rescued from bondage, sin and death by Jesus. HE is my Saviour. The NEW Covenant was signed with his blood, I have come to him and received eternal life.

So you, as a gentile, are NOT grafted in? The last supper was a covenant of marriage, a proposal or betrothal. A bride price was paid and we drank the cup.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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But that's not what Exodus 35:2 says; it doesn't mention a court.
Also people were supposed to be stoned to death for blasphemy or for committing adultery.
When people found a woman who had been committing adultery, they took her to Jesus; presumably wanting to see if he would uphold the law. If Jesus had, he would have been legally correct. Yet he diffused the situation by saying that whoever was without sin should cast the first stone.
The Pharisees etc stoned Stephen for blasphemy - and Saul approved.
Neither of these cases mention a court of Judges.

Yeshua was also found guilty in a sham trial BY the sanhedrin...legality?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Jesus did not teach any of these. These things are not even mentioned in the 10 commandments.

Do they have to be? Jews knew all of those from when they were children. He did teach out of Leviticus and Deuteronomy...so He DID teach Torah...He taught the higher points of the law (Mathew 23:23)
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Well there you go then. Yet when I've said that some of God's laws are not for Gentiles today because Jesus didn't teach the way to salvation was by keeping the law, you said "well he wrote the Torah and you are saying that it's not true. So is it fake?"

What I said was that not all laws (in Torah) are for everyone nor can everyone keep all of them because as I said, some are ONLY for woman, some are ONLY for men, etc...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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No - and I didn't even say that it was untrue. I said that we, Christ's followers, did not come to faith through the law and have not been commanded to keep it.

Again what WERE you commanded to keep? The 10 commandments? Do you keep those? How about the Noahide laws in Acts?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I have said, a number of times, that Paul circumcised Timothy because he wanted to take Timothy into the temple, or to talk to Jews. And as Timothy was Greek, he circumcised him so that Jews would accept him and not get upset that he was defiling the temple.

Um, Timothy was Jewish, his mother was Jewish and father was a Greek...Acts 16:1-15
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I am IN Jesus, the True Vine.

You are a branch if you are grafted in...John 15...branches not producing fruit (what is fruit?) will be pruned...so WHO was there and WHERE was it that He said that??
 
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Um, Timothy was Jewish, his mother was Jewish and father was a Greek...Acts 16:1-15

So was he an uncircumcised Jew, or was he circumcised twice??

Had he been circumcised, Paul would not have needed to do it again.
 
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Strong in Him

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Again what WERE you commanded to keep?

I try to keep the words of Jesus and the commands he gave - including his NEW commandment, to love as he loved.

The 10 commandments are about loving God and your neighbour - both of which Jesus also taught.
 
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Strong in Him

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You are a branch if you are grafted in...John 15...

If we follow Christ and are IN him, we are part of the vine.
Jesus said "remain in me and I will remain in you".
Paul taught Christians they were to live in Christ.
 
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HARK!

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But he commanded that we keep the Sabbath and said to Moses that those who work on the Sabbath should be stoned to death, Exodus 35:2.
So did he give that law and then change his mind? Did he forget that he had also given a command not to murder? Or is stoning to death a Sabbath breaker a law that was given then, for those people, but which we don't keep any longer?

Let me explain this another way. I'm sure that there are laws against stealing where you live. If someone steals from you; can you just unilaterally lock them up in your own cage, for as long as you feel is just; or do they have to go through due process through the Court?

Where I'm from, we have to go through the Court; or it's kidnapping. Kidnapping is a transgression of the law where I'm from.
 
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HARK!

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I don't need to have it reconciled; I'm asking you.

I already answered you. Did you follow the link to my study? A study of scripture reconciles this for me. Timothy was ready to begin his ministry with Paul. Paul was ministering primarily to the nations. They had left Jerusalem; and they were nowhere near the Temple.

(CLV) Ac 16:1
Now he arrives also at Derbe and at Lystra. And lo! a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a believing Jewish woman, yet of a Greek father,

(CLV) Ac 16:2
who was attested by the brethren in Lystra and Iconium.

(CLV) Ac 16:3
This one Paul wants to come out with him, and, taking him, circumcised him because of the Jews who are in those places, for they all were aware that his father belonged to the Greeks.

(CLV) Ac 16:4
Now, as they went through the cities, they give over to them the decrees to maintain, which have been decided upon by the apostles and elders who are in Jerusalem.

(CLV) Ac 16:5
The ecclesias, indeed, then, were stable in the faith and superabounded in number day by day.

(CLV) Ac 16:6
Now they passed through Phrygia and the Galatian province, being forbidden by the holy spirit to speak the word in the province of Asia.
 
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HARK!

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Yes, THEY - the ones who had been rescued from Egypt, seen his miracles and been protected and provided for in the wilderness, entered into covenant with him. A covenant that they broke repeatedly, by the way.

I have no Jewish heritage; none of my ancestors were rescued from Egypt.
But I HAVE been rescued from bondage, sin and death by Jesus. HE is my Saviour. The NEW Covenant was signed with his blood, I have come to him and received eternal life.

Again, the mixed multitude at Sinai had no Jewish heritage, nor did the other 11 tribes. By the way, how did you manage to trace your ancestry all the way back to the days of Moses?

Moses leading Israel out of the bondage of Egypt, is a type and shadow of Yahshua leading us out of the spiritual bondage of the world.
 
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HARK!

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As I've said, his command to Moses was that anyone who worked on the Sabbath should be put to death, Exodus 35:2.

As I have said repeatedly, that needs to be done through the Court; or it is a transgression of the Torah. Repeating the refuted argument, will continue to yield the same refutation.
 
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HARK!

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When I said Jewish law, I was talking about circumcision, food laws, not wearing clothes with mixed fibres, not touching unclean people and all other laws mentioned in Exodus and Leviticus.
Jesus did not teach any of these. These things are not even mentioned in the 10 commandments.

Question: Where did Yahshua teach against homosexuality. That's not even mentioned in the 10 commandments.

Answer: (CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Question: Where did Yahshua teach not to take YHWH's name in vain? That is in the 10 Commandments; but he didn't specifically mention it.

Answer: (CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

So you see, Yahshua teaches us that we must not be blasphemous homosexuals.
 
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pescador

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Question: Where did Yahshua teach against homosexuality. That's not even mentioned in the 10 commandments.

Answer: (CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Question: Where did Yahshua teach not to take YHWH's name in vain? That is in the 10 Commandments; but he didn't specifically mention it.

Answer: (CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

So you see, Yahshua teaches us that we must not be blasphemous homosexuals.

I don't understand this post. You cite the same verse to answer two different questions about Yahshua teaching against homosexuality and taking YHWH's name in vain, yet Luke 16:17 answers neither.
 
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I already answered you. Did you follow the link to my study?

No, because it's not an issue for me.

A study of scripture reconciles this for me.

Exactly.
Scripture tells us that Timothy had a Greek father and people knew it. Paul wanted to take Timothy with him to talk to the Jews, so he circumcised him.

Had Timothy been Jewish and been circumcised already, the Jewish community would know it, and Paul would not have been able to circumcise him again, even if he had wanted to.
Had Paul been going to a Greek community where Timothy was already known, I suspect they wouldn't have cared if he was circumcised or not.
But Timothy was clearly uncircumcised, and Paul clearly thought that this might be an issue for the Jews or offend them in some way, so he circumcised him.

Yet he was still right to condemn Judaizers who were teaching that Gentiles had to be circumcised to be saved, and he was still right to say that circumcision is nothing. It was something that he did so that those he ministered to would feel more comfortable accepting Timothy. He could have just said "I'm only taking Jews to minster to Jews"; he didn't. And credit to Timothy; he was willing to go through this, knowing that he didn't need to, it meant nothing and the Jews might not have accepted him or the Gospel anyway.

Hundreds of people believed in Jesus, received the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and were saved, without needing to be circumcised.
 
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