Are denominations like medicines?

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Are denominations like medicines where different ones work best for different folk. And so they're good things rather than bad and we should choose the one that works best for us?

For example, I believe in free will and so I would never be able to adopt a denomination that didn't acknowledge that. And it wouldn't be because of a lack of understanding of that denomination. It would simply not be possible for me ever to disbelieve in something that to me is self-evidently true. It would twist me in knots and make me feel phony if I tried. And I feel the same about some of the defining beliefs of other denominations.

So I think that, in practice, we seek out a church that feels right for us, and perhaps often we won't be able to articulate why it does so. Of course, we shouldn't expect to find a church where we agree with everything that's taught and we should always be open to being challenged, but on the issues that go to the heart of what we personally believe, isn't it reasonable to select a denomination that reasonably matches that?
 

Albion

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In my opinion, that is what many people do, but the proper thing to do is of course to join the church that is correct (or the one that is believed to be the most correct) rather than one that teaches errors which the seeker has taken a personal liking to.
 
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Dave L

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Are denominations like medicines where different ones work best for different folk. And so they're good things rather than bad and we should choose the one that works best for us?

For example, I believe in free will and so I would never be able to adopt a denomination that didn't acknowledge that. And it wouldn't be because of a lack of understanding of that denomination. It would simply not be possible for me ever to disbelieve in something that to me is self-evidently true. It would twist me in knots and make me feel phony if I tried. And I feel the same about some of the defining beliefs of other denominations.

So I think that, in practice, we seek out a church that feels right for us, and perhaps often we won't be able to articulate why it does so. Of course, we shouldn't expect to find a church where we agree with everything that's taught and we should always be open to being challenged, but on the issues that go to the heart of what we personally believe, isn't it reasonable to select a denomination that reasonably matches that?
I found that staying away from church until you know what the bible says is the best. Then pick a church that best fits the truth.
 
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In my opinion, that is what many people do, but the proper thing to do is of course to join the church that is correct (or the one that is believed to be the most correct) rather than one that teaches errors which the seeker has taken a personal liking to.

But would you not agree that believing in something like human free will is more than just a personal liking and if someone who believes in free will went to a church that didn't, that person would end up extremely unhappy? There is no way they could ever flourish in such a church. Other people might of course.
 
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Albion

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But would you not agree that believing in something like human free will is more than just a personal liking and if someone who believes in free will went to a church that didn't, that person would end up extremely unhappy?

This is what you wrote:
And so they're good things rather than bad and we should choose the one that works best for us?

What you are advocating is to choose a church BASED ON WHETHER OR NOT it teaches something that you LIKE to hear. If that is the standard, I suppose many people would choose the free love church or the hate the immigrants church. And yes these can be found.

According to your contention, people who like hearing those things proclaimed as good and moral will be happy in those churches...and that's right of them to do since, as you say, they might be "unhappy" in another congregation and might not "fluorish" there.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Are denominations like medicines where different ones work best for different folk. And so they're good things rather than bad and we should choose the one that works best for us?

For example, I believe in free will and so I would never be able to adopt a denomination that didn't acknowledge that. And it wouldn't be because of a lack of understanding of that denomination. It would simply not be possible for me ever to disbelieve in something that to me is self-evidently true. It would twist me in knots and make me feel phony if I tried. And I feel the same about some of the defining beliefs of other denominations.

So I think that, in practice, we seek out a church that feels right for us, and perhaps often we won't be able to articulate why it does so. Of course, we shouldn't expect to find a church where we agree with everything that's taught and we should always be open to being challenged, but on the issues that go to the heart of what we personally believe, isn't it reasonable to select a denomination that reasonably matches that?

There is often a sentiment that different denominations are comparable to consumer goods, and that it's up to us, the consumers, to choose the one we like the best.

But if we stop and think about this for just a moment it should be obvious why such thinking is wrong.

The reason different denominations exist is because of schisms among Christians. Breaches in our communion. After all, Christ only established one Church, His Church.

Schisms happen because there are disagreements, usually over some point (or sometimes several points) of theology. Most of the ancient schisms involved pretty clear heresy. One of the most ancient examples is Marcion of Sinope attempting to challenge some pretty fundamental Christian teachings ended up being excommunicated and started his own rival Marcionite Church. Marcion was a heretic (he denied that the God of Israel was the same God Jesus spoke about, and so he rejected the Old Testament, and the teaching that God is the creator of the world, and then went on to edit the Gospel of Luke and some of Paul's letters to suit his own purposes).

And in a sense, that's how all schisms happen, one side argues their position is true, and the other side argues their position is true, and two groups result. Sometimes the question of orthodoxy and heresy is pretty clear, such as in the case of Marcion mentioned above. But other times, it gets way more complicated.

For complicated, let's take the 451 Schism. During the Christological controversies of the 5th century we have a split between two groups: Diaphysites on one side who argued that Jesus Christ has two natures (dia physes) corresponding to the two essences (ousie) in one united Person. And Miaphysites on the other side that argued that Jesus has two essences (ousie) but are united as one Incarnate nature (mia physis) of the one undivided Person. This was exasperated further because of extremists, or at least the fear of extremist positions (e.g. Nestorianism and Eutychianism). And so when a church council was held in the city of Chalcedon, the Diaphysites declared their position final, and the ramifications were that the Miaphysites were cast as being Eutychians, and thus heretics. This led to a major schism among churches, those who took the Diaphysite/Chalcedonian position, and those who took the Miaphysite position. Today, the Chalcedonians include Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant Christians; while the Miaphysite position is still maintained by the the Oriental Orthodox Churches (the Coptic Church, the Syrian Church, the Ethiopian Church, the Armenian Church, etc). However, also today, after 1500 years of division, there actually has been a lot of good dialogue, and there is a growing consensus that what differentiates the Diaphysite and Miaphysite positions isn't one of actual substantial theology, but rather is a matter of semantics. In other words, we're both saying the same thing, just using different words.

And, then, things get more complicated when one looks at Protestantism. Like, holy cow does it get complicated.

So, let's look at me for a moment. I'm Lutheran. Why am I Lutheran? I didn't grow up Lutheran, it's something that happened over the course of my 20's. I say "over the course of" because it's not like I woke up on day and said, "I think I'll be a Lutheran". Instead I began asking a lot of questions, questions that led me to look at different positions held across the spectrum of Christianity. Lutheranism wasn't even on my radar for a long time. And so I often like to say that I tripped and fell into Lutheranism, that's actually why I sign my name off on here as "CryptoLutheran" because I was a "Secret Lutheran" for a while, not actually part of a Lutheran church body but having eventually become convinced of the basic theological positions of the Lutheran tradition on the subject of Justification. And that's the reason I'm Lutheran: I believe Lutheranism is biblical Christianity, I believe Lutheranism is true, honest-to-goodness Christianity. That doesn't mean I consider non-Lutherans non-Christians, but yes, I do believe that the theology in other traditions to be deficient, and--quite frankly--just downright wrong.

If I didn't believe Lutheranism was true, I wouldn't be a Lutheran.

Being Lutheran isn't about picking my favorite flavor of ice cream, or about what "works best for me"; but about what I believe to be objectively true religion.

And I think that's how people should look at their churches. I certainly hope that Catholics are Catholic because they believe Catholicism is actually true. That the Orthodox are Orthodox because they believe Orthodoxy is actually true. The same with the Reformed, same with Methodists, Baptists, et al.

Conviction is a good thing, and it doesn't mean we have to be jerks to one another. We can love and respect and treat one another as brothers and sisters even though we disagree very deeply about very significant points of theology and practice. Conviction with compassion is what we ought to exhibit.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Dave L

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I have issue with this; the church is the body of Christ and you shouldn’t stay away from it. You need to stay connected to the vine.
The Church is not a denomination. It is the body of Christ. Denominations are religious franchises, not different from any other business, that sells religious services to people of a certain belief.
 
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Albion

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It’s only common sense that people want to attend a church that reflects their beliefs.
It is entirely understandable. But it is right to do? That is the real question. If we do not aspire to follow the truth, why go to church at all?

Certainly we would need to ask why we would consider ourselves to be Christians, followers of the Christ, unless we actually followed his teachings and believed in Him???
 
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Hmm

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you are advocating is to choose a church BASED ON WHETHER OR NOT it teaches something that you enjoy hearing. If that is the standard, I suppose many people would choose the free love church or the hate the immigrants church. And yes these can be found.

Well, I would agree with you but I was hoping I had made it clear these are are not the sort of things I am talking about. I am not talking about something that we enjoy hearing like free love but something that we fundamentally believe to be true. The example I gave was free will. Enjoy is not the right word for that bexausr in many ways, life would be a lot easier without free will. It is, rather, a fundamental part of who I am. I can imagine changing my stance on free love or immigration but not on an issue like this. So any church that took a different view on this would not - could not - be right for me.
 
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Albion

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I am not talking about something that we enjoy hearing like free love but something that we fundamentally believe to be true.

There are plenty of people who believe in the rightness of free love, or bearing false witness, or racism, and they are to be found in the church pews on Sunday. Your argument relied solely upon whether or not they feel happy having those beliefs reinforced, rather than unhappy being told that God takes a different view.
 
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section9+1

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I am a lot like the OP. What works for me is that I do move around some in churches. I stay for awhile and make some lasting friendships and really, most every church has many great people in it. I like the fellowship and often hear good stuff. But I never join formally. Never! I believe in church and I try to go and I benefit from it. Lots of good stuff goes on in churches. But I stay a perpetual visitor. It puts me under no constraint to comply anywhere. I feel part of the body of X without the attending strings that accompany church membership. I make it plain to the pastor what I am up to and they have all been good with it. I tithe and create no upsets. I behave myself. It works.
 
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There are plenty of people who believe in the rightness of free love, or bearing false witness, or racism, and they are to be found in the church pews on Sunday. Your argument relied solely upon whether or not they feel happy having those beliefs reinforced, rather than unhappy being told that God takes a different view.

With respect, I didn't use the word "happy" in my OP. I am talking about core existential beliefs that we hold, often without even knowing why - they are just self-evidently true for us. I don't want to mention any specific churches/denominations but I know that I would never be able to believe in some of the credal beliefs of some denominations. Not because I don't want to believe them but because I can't. Isn't that true for you too?
 
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Like, holy cow does it get complicated.

lol

actually why I sign my name off on here as "CryptoLutheran" because I was a "Secret Lutheran" for a while

I did wonder!

Being Lutheran isn't about picking my favorite flavor of ice cream, or about what "works best for me"; but about what I believe to be objectively true religion.

But was there nothing in Lutheranism that you responded to on a kind of existential level that went beyond a rational agreement with it's particular beliefs? And that this is why it was right for you?
 
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Albion

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With respect, I didn't use the word "happy" in my OP.
You did say that if the church didn't teach what the person wants to hear, he'd be "unhappy," and if that is supposed to be significantly different, then okay.

I am talking about core existential beliefs that we hold, often without even knowing why - they are just self-evidently true for us.
I suppose that there's something of a difference there, but we all hold ideas that we come in with; and if we are not open to doing what Christ taught instead of those "core" beliefs, then what are we doing in a church anyway?

I don't want to mention any specific churches/denominations but I know that I would never be able to believe in some of the credal beliefs of some denominations. Not because I don't want to believe them but because I can't. Isn't that true for you too?
Yes, but in all those cases, I made my decision on the basis of what I learned, and therefore believed, about the correctness or falsity of the doctrines themselves.

I did not start with an inclination toward some idea and then shop for a church that would reinforce them. For example, at one time I thought that universalism might be right. Investigating it and studying the Bible convinced me that it was not in accord with divine revelation. I gave up any interest in churches that teach universal salvation, therefore. It would indeed be comforting to believe that belief, though.

This does not seem to be the process you are describing.
 
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Are denominations like medicines where different ones work best for different folk.

They are like research labs trying to find the best cure for cancer and eternal life -

People go to one or the other thinking that the one they found has the best cure, or the right idea to get to a good discovery the fastest of all the competing groups.
 
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But would you not agree that believing in something like human free will is more than just a personal liking and if someone who believes in free will went to a church that didn't, that person would end up extremely unhappy? There is no way they could ever flourish in such a church. .

true - it makes no sense to belong to a group where you think their view of reality -- is dead wrong on some basic point.

Christian Catholics killed Christian Protestants in the dark ages for centuries - thinking that they were right and the Protestants were wrong ... about something.

In the first century - Jews killed Christians thinking that the Christians were wrong about something
 
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bling

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Are denominations like medicines where different ones work best for different folk. And so they're good things rather than bad and we should choose the one that works best for us?

For example, I believe in free will and so I would never be able to adopt a denomination that didn't acknowledge that. And it wouldn't be because of a lack of understanding of that denomination. It would simply not be possible for me ever to disbelieve in something that to me is self-evidently true. It would twist me in knots and make me feel phony if I tried. And I feel the same about some of the defining beliefs of other denominations.

So I think that, in practice, we seek out a church that feels right for us, and perhaps often we won't be able to articulate why it does so. Of course, we shouldn't expect to find a church where we agree with everything that's taught and we should always be open to being challenged, but on the issues that go to the heart of what we personally believe, isn't it reasonable to select a denomination that reasonably matches that?
We might have talked about this before.

Paul was always warring against division among the churches in the first century and Christ speaks against it (a house divided).

I hate to say it but severe persecution might help to unite Christians and get rid of those hypocrites and dividers.

Again, the unregistered church in China is growing rapidly and I see no denominations among them, so is that good or bad?

I do not like addressing questions about, all the denominations found in the West. It is almost like being asked to: “Take the blank out of my own eye first”.
 
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I did not start with an inclination toward some idea and then shop for a church that would reinforce them. For example, at one time I thought that universalism/universal salvation might be right. Investigating it and studying the Bible convinced me that it was not in accord with divine revelation. I gave up any interest in churches that teach universalism, therefore. This does not seem to be the process you are describing.

I agree that we should always be open to questioninft our beliefs, even the ones that we most identify with. But I still wonder whether we don't hold some beliefs that will never change however much we learn. I keep using free will as an example but that's because I don't want to mention any particular church, but there is something about free will that I believe I can never change my mind on. Assuming that that is the case, am I wrong therefore in not to contemplate joining any church that teaches that we don't have free will? This is what I meant by medicine - if I'm allergic to paracetamol isn't it better that I accept that andt take something else instead for a healthy spiritual development?
 
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Hmm

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Again, the unregistered church in China is growing rapidly and I see no denominations among them, so is that good or bad?

That is really interesting and very hard for those of us outside China to imagine. I wonder how long that will continue if the prohibitions on religious expression were ever relaxed.
 
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