Should a Christian ever support a rebellion or uprising against an evil government?

[Childofgodharrison]

If voting or changing government was no concern of Christians, British member of parliament William Wilberforce, and his countless supporters, would never have achieved the abolition the slave trade in 1807. And America would undoubtedly still be enslaving its black population.

It is complete nonsense to claim that if Jesus wanted something he would have done it when he was on earth. No wonder Christians abdicate responsibility when they believe stuff like this.
Psalm115v16The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’s; But the earth He has given to the children of men.
Have you never read this scripture, and do you understand what it means? If Christians abdicate their involvement in either voting or active politics itself, the governments of earth are left entirely in the control of Satan!!!!
Matt5v13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
Your false theology creates a church with absolutely no earthly purifying or preserving quality, a salt that has entirely devoid of savour. Fit only to be trampled underfoot, just like most of the church today.

How can we be salt and light if we abdicate involvement in the world around us?
Matt5v14“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Being salt and light in secret is not enough.We are called to be salt and light in the world, shining brightly so that people can see. By actively taking his faith into politics, Godly men like Wilberforce become a much magnified salt and light that changed a whole nation..

Of course government is God's concern, and that's why he sends godly men into governments to change things and stop Satan ruling over the nations.

If voting or changing government was no concern of Christians, British member of parliament William Wilberforce, and his countless supporters, would never have achieved the abolition the slave trade in 1807. And America would undoubtedly still be enslaving its black population.

It is complete nonsense to claim that if Jesus wanted something he would have done it when he was on earth. No wonder Christians abdicate responsibility when they believe stuff like this.
Psalm115v16The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’s; But the earth He has given to the children of men.
Have you never read this scripture, and do you understand what it means? If Christians abdicate their involvement in either voting or active politics itself, the governments of earth are left entirely in the control of Satan!!!!
Matt5v13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
Your false theology creates a church with absolutely no earthly purifying or preserving quality, a salt that has entirely devoid of savour. Fit only to be trampled underfoot, just like most of the church today.

How can we be salt and light if we abdicate involvement in the world around us?
Matt5v14“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Being salt and light in secret is not enough.We are called to be salt and light in the world, shining brightly so that people can see. By actively taking his faith into politics, Godly men like Wilberforce become a much magnified salt and light that changed a whole nation..

Of course government is God's concern, and that's why he sends godly men into governments to change things and stop Satan ruling over the nations.

Bottom line is: If we are the body and Jesus is the head then we must do what Jesus is doing. Jesus didn't come to change the world. He came to lead us out of it. The Governments, the kings of this world are not our kings. How many kings do you have. I have one. That is Jesus. You can't have two kings. If you are luke warm, God will spit you out of his mouth. Why do you want to fix a kingdom that you don't belong too. Lastly: We are in the world, not of it.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Ah, I'm in Australia, so the politics are not quite as intense as in the USA at the moment. This topic mostly sprung up when I thought about how often rebellion is often portrayed a the right thing to do in many movies and books, e.g Star Wars, Eragon, Braveheart, etc. It made me wonder what the Christian perspective on the matter was, and here I am.

We aren't to obey governing authorities when they demand we sin. (Refusing to call Ceasar lord, for instance, refusing to stop preaching the gospel, for another) on top of that, Peter escaped authorities by sneaking out of the city walls - so there are times we don't allow ourselves to be captured by authorities so that we can continue with Gods work. You also have the angel breaking Paul out of prison so he could preach the Gospel to the lost.

However, nowhere in scripture do any of them take up arms to fight against these unjust governments. Certainly, that's noteworthy although the Bible doesn't speak to every single possible instance, but the Jews wanted that, the Rome conquering Messiah, and didn't get it. When they got exactly what they wanted (someone who would fight against Rome in place of the Messiah who wouldn't) they were judged harshly by God for it.

Jesus's display of anger in the temple was in regards to how God was being disrespected, not over a conquering or unjust nation - although certainly Rome was unjust.

At the same time, fighting against bad rulers I don't feel to be wrong. Fighting against Hitler and more is as Scripture says, governments are a terror to those who do evil, and it was governments rising up to take rulers like that down.

When it comes to local rebellion against your own government I think it's a grey area.

We know for a fact we can refuse to follow any laws that cause us to sin, and we can protect people who are innocent (such as hiding a Jew from the nazis) and we can evade capture if we weren't doing evil in God's sight (like if there was an arrest warrant on us for attending church or preaching the gospel)

But for other reasons? I'm unsure. I think that has to be as God guides a person because it really might depend on how evil the government really is.

I think for the most part though Christianity as a whole is apolitical which lends my mind to be more libertarian in nature, at least politically.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Well, I think the world would have been a better place had the Russian Orthodox population revolted against the Communists en Masse.

Revolution as a political solution to all problems is not something Christians should be part of. Mainly because it has a secular utopian angle to it that imagines we can achieve heaven on earth, if only we just had the right people in charge. A Christian view of government will recognize that it isn't government's role to solve all problems, but to create order. So even in a repressive government Christians shouldn't revolt, less they give the government an excuse to use it's full resources in the effort to quash them. If however the government has targeted the Church for complete destruction anyway, the authorities have invited revolt upon themselves.

If Christians had made themselves utterly intransigent against the Roman authorities, instead of only being firm when they had to, I am convinced we might not have survived and dominated the Empire. If Christians today in China were to rise up they would be all killed without an ounce of hesitation by the CCP and Christianity in all forms would be outlawed.

Christians should understand that it is not their place necessarily to create governing bodies. All well and good if they find themselves in that position, but it cannot be a general strategy. Otherwise you end up with Antifa.

 

[timothyu]

You also have the angel breaking Paul out of prison so he could preach the Gospel to the lost.

It's a pity we never get to hear him preach the Gospel of the Kingdom but are only left with three references to him doing so diligently. It seems to me the religion builders used authority in their favour in determining that. So does bowing to authority on earth mean don't question their motives or simply don't rebel but stay under the radar and love your enemy as self.

 

[timothyu]

I am convinced we might not have survived and dominated the Empire.

Two points. The Jews didn't dominate and Christianity didn't dominate but became partners with the world rather than the Kingdom.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Two points. The Jews didn't dominate and Christianity didn't dominate but became partners with the world rather than the Kingdom.

Two responses. Didn't talk about the Jews. The Christians did dominate the empire by transforming it into a Christian nation. It might not have been Marcionite enough for you or have embraced your gnostic vision of Christianity but it was Christian. Because unlike pure spirits, Christians live on this mortal coil.

 

[timothyu]

Didn't talk about the Jews.

Yet they were the original Christians. I guess first it should be said the Christians dominated the Jewish movement before moving on to create a religion in Rome's image.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yet they were the original Christians. I guess first it should be said the Christians dominated the Jewish movement before moving on to create a religion in Rome's image.

Um, Christians didn't dominate the Jewish movement. The two diverged as early on as Jesus and the division between became more markedly clear as time went on.

To say Christianity was reshaped in Rome's image isn't exactly wrong but it's grounded in an idealistic pacifism which is ultimately untenable. Especially in the context of the ancient world and even our world today. You might be okay with watching your friends and neighbours be slaughtered by a foreign opponent, but most good people will seek to defend their fellows, Christian or otherwise.

Christianity being accepted by Rome did change things for Christians. They had to deal with the grit of state and that's always unsavory. Yet anarchism is far worse and having a pagan rule over a majority Christian population (as Christianity eventually became) was simply untenable if the goal was to preserve Christianity.

Mind you, I'm not a Gnostic like you are. You might reject the God of the Old Testament for giving a King to the Israelites, or even Judges for that matter, but I see it as a necessity.

 

[timothyu]

You might reject the God of the Old Testament for giving a King to the Israelites, or even Judges for that matter, but I see it as a necessity.

No rejection at all. My Kingdom has a King and it certainly was not represented by the new Empire religion that broadsided the Kingdom to partner with the world of man.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

No rejection at all. My Kingdom has a King and it certainly was not represented by the new Empire religion that broadsided the Kingdom to partner with the world of man.

I suppose your right. Your religion wasnt represented by Rome or any other Christian over the last 2000 years. It's entirely a product of your own will. Very Gnostic, but not Christian. I suppose I prefer Christianity, which has actually motivated people and inspired them to achieve things beyond this world and it's cares. Besides yourself, what has your Gnosticism produced that's of value to anyone?

 

[John Helpher]

is there ever a scenario in which a Christian should help overthrow a government?

Yes, every time we practice the teachings of Jesus. Sure, God allows human governments; he even manipulates them from time to time. In Exodus 9:16 God says that he raised Pharaoh up for the purpose of smiting him as a lesson that there is no king or kingdom in the world who is better than God. This is the same verse Paul references in Romans 9:17.

Check out 1 Samuel 8. The whole chapter is about the children of Israel abandoning God's system of tribal elders to judge the people, and instead insisting they have a king like the rest of the world. God sternly warns them that the kind of king they want will only end up abusing them and that they only want a king because they have already rejected him. Despite this warning, the people foolishly continue insisting that they want t a king. God gives in to their demands with the caveat that he be the one to choose their king.

Humans have a long history of using the bible to legitimize nationalism, but over and over again the message of the kingdom of Heaven is that the ways of this world do not promote the Kingdom of Heaven.

In Matthew 6:24-33 Jesus tells his followers that they cannot work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other. If we use our time to make money, then we're cheating on the Kingdom of Heaven. If we use our time to serve God, then we're cheating on the worldly system of wages.

We don't owe the governments of man anything. Yes, we should cooperate, so long as doing so is not immoral, but always on the understanding that we are not citizens of any country; rather we are citizens of the kingdom of Heaven.

 

[timothyu]

Christians will have to wait their turn At the moment an anti-Christ state/corporate entity is taking over governments all over the world with all members using the same rallying cry of build back better. Germany, Canada, Israel, Nigeria, Pakistan, New Zealand to name a few all saying build back better. Looks like there is a corporate takeover going on. .