Day of The Lord - Day of Jesus' Future Return

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ Jesus, when we keep to God's Word as written, then understanding becomes simple as we stay with it, and not with listening to all sorts of traditions of men. Understanding the timing of the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns is simple when we do this keeping to what is written. (In my writings I refer to the KJV Bible).

Apostle Peter declared the "day of the Lord" as a final event of destruction on the last day of this present world earth age. In 2 Peter 3, he was covering the idea of 3 earth ages, the "world that then was", which was destroyed by water, and then "the heavens and the earth, which are now", which he said is preserved for destruction by fire (2 Peter 3:5-7).

Peter proclaimed that day of destruction on the final day of this present world as the "day of the Lord" timing:

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV


Apostle Paul also proclaimed that "day of the Lord" event coupled with a destruction upon the earth...

1 Thess 5:1-4
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV


And again at the end of Hebrews 12, Apostle Paul proclaimed that day of destruction upon the earth coupled with God's consuming fire...

Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV

Who didn't know about that coming shaking God will do on that day also? If you don't know about it, then why not, because we were well told about it in Isaiah 2 about that coming great shaking on the future "day of the Lord"? This not taught in your Church you say? What else have you missed from not studying God's Word for yourself? And make no mistake. This Hebrews 12 passage is about that same event of the "day of the Lord" that Peter and Paul were talking about.

Did you know our Lord Jesus pointed to His coming on that "day of the Lord"? In Revelation 16:15 He did, when He forewarned us that He comes "as a thief", and to keep our righteous garments lest we appear naked and in shame (spiritually). The next event described there is the battle of Armageddon on the 7th Vial. That "as a thief" idea He taught in His Olivet discourse in relation to His coming for His Church...

Matt 24:42-44
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
KJV

That is also the "as a thief in the night" idea that Apostles Paul and Peter were preaching in the above Scripture I posted about the "day of the Lord".

But places like below, in the Old Testament Book of Isaiah is where our Lord Jesus had already foretold about His coming on that "day of the Lord" to end this present world...

Isa 2:10-21
10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols He shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
KJV

So make no mistake, the "day of the Lord" event is the day of Christ's return to gather His Church, and reign over all nations on earth. It is when He will literally rule over all His enemies with His elect saints. That day has not arrived yet, because it will be when He will subdue 'all' the wicked on this earth.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Brethren in Christ Jesus, when we keep to God's Word as written, then understanding becomes simple as we stay with it, and not with listening to all sorts of traditions of men. Understanding the timing of the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns is simple when we do this keeping to what is written. (In my writings I refer to the KJV Bible).

Apostle Peter declared the "day of the Lord" as a final event of destruction on the last day of this present world earth age. In 2 Peter 3, he was covering the idea of 3 earth ages, the "world that then was", which was destroyed by water, and then "the heavens and the earth, which are now", which he said is preserved for destruction by fire (2 Peter 3:5-7).

Peter proclaimed that day of destruction on the final day of this present world as the "day of the Lord" timing:

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV


Apostle Paul also proclaimed that "day of the Lord" event coupled with a destruction upon the earth...

1 Thess 5:1-4
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV


And again at the end of Hebrews 12, Apostle Paul proclaimed that day of destruction upon the earth coupled with God's consuming fire...

Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV

Who didn't know about that coming shaking God will do on that day also? If you don't know about it, then why not, because we were well told about it in Isaiah 2 about that coming great shaking on the future "day of the Lord"? This not taught in your Church you say? What else have you missed from not studying God's Word for yourself? And make no mistake. This Hebrews 12 passage is about that same event of the "day of the Lord" that Peter and Paul were talking about.

Did you know our Lord Jesus pointed to His coming on that "day of the Lord"? In Revelation 16:15 He did, when He forewarned us that He comes "as a thief", and to keep our righteous garments lest we appear naked and in shame (spiritually). The next event described there is the battle of Armageddon on the 7th Vial. That "as a thief" idea He taught in His Olivet discourse in relation to His coming for His Church...

Matt 24:42-44
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
KJV

That is also the "as a thief in the night" idea that Apostles Paul and Peter were preaching in the above Scripture I posted about the "day of the Lord".

But places like below, in the Old Testament Book of Isaiah is where our Lord Jesus had already foretold about His coming on that "day of the Lord" to end this present world...

Isa 2:10-21
10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols He shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
KJV

So make no mistake, the "day of the Lord" event is the day of Christ's return to gather His Church, and reign over all nations on earth. It is when He will literally rule over all His enemies with His elect saints. That day has not arrived yet, because it will be when He will subdue 'all' the wicked on this earth.

I agree that 2 Peter 3:10-12 and 1 Thess 5:1-4 refer to the day of Christ's return, but can you explain how anyone can possibly survive what is described in 2 Peter 3:10-12? Notice in 2 Peter 3:13 that Peter said that as a result of what he had just described regarding the destruction of the heavens and the earth we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth and he said nothing about an earthly millennial kingdom.

 

[Davy]

I agree that 2 Peter 3:10-12 and 1 Thess 5:1-4 refer to the day of Christ's return, but can you explain how anyone can possibly survive what is described in 2 Peter 3:10-12? Notice in 2 Peter 3:13 that Peter said that as a result of what he had just described regarding the destruction of the heavens and the earth we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth and he said nothing about an earthly millennial kingdom.

Jesus didn't say anything in Matthew 13 about a "thousand years" reign prior to the wicked and Satan going into the future "lake of fire" either, yet He covered the event of the tares being cast into the fire just the same. Same thing with Paul in 1 Cor.15:23-28, a specific "thousand years" period isn't given there either, but, a period when Jesus must reign, all His enemies being made His footstool, is given there, which does... point to His future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

Thusly, one cannot claim that 1,000 period doesn't exist just because it's not mentioned in other Scripture. Likewise, we aren't to dismiss Scripture events that point to that future period, but just don't use wordage like a "thousand years".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jesus didn't say anything in Matthew 13 about a "thousand years" reign prior to the wicked and Satan going into the future "lake of fire" either, yet He covered the event of the tares being cast into the fire just the same. Same thing with Paul in 1 Cor.15:23-28, a specific "thousand years" period isn't given there either, but, a period when Jesus must reign, all His enemies being made His footstool, is given there, which does... point to His future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

Thusly, one cannot claim that 1,000 period doesn't exist just because it's not mentioned in other Scripture. Likewise, we aren't to dismiss Scripture events that point to that future period, but just don't use wordage like a "thousand years".

You didn't answer my question. You agree with me that 2 Peter 3:10-12 will occur on the day Christ returns. Great. Most premils that I've talked to don't believe that passage will occur on the day He returns. You know why that is? Because it clearly indicates that the entire earth will be burned up on that day. Which means there can't possibly be any mortal survivors when Christ returns on that day. No mortal survivors means no earthly millennial kingdom.

As for Matthew 13, here is something Jesus said there:

40 As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

What is described here will occur "at the end of the age". Would you agree that Jesus will return at the end of the age (Matthew 24:3)? If so, please notice one key thing from this passage. When He returns at the end of the age, "the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father". Notice it calls the kingdom "the kingdom of their Father" and not the kingdom of the Son. What is the significance of that? Let's look at another passage that you referenced.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

So, this teaches that Christ was the first (firstfruits) to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality and then at His coming those who belong to Him will rise unto bodily immortality as well. Remember that it says it would be at the end of the age that Jesus will come (Matt 24:3) and at that time the righteous would be in the kingdom of their Father. It says that because when Jesus comes that is when the end will come (end of the age, end of death, end of all earthly dominion, authority and power) and He then hands over or delivers the kingdom to God the Father. Using scripture to interpret scripture by comparing this passage to Matthew 13:43, we can conclude that "the end" does not come 1000+ years after Christ comes, but it comes when He returns.

Clearly, He will destroy "all dominion, authority and power" when He comes because the entire earth will be burned up on that day.

One last thing we should notice from 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 is that the last enemy to be destroyed or defeated is death. When will that occur? Paul showed that later in the same chapter.

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.

I'm sure you would agree that the above passage speaks of what will happen on the day Christ returns at the last trumpet. Notice that on that day death will be "swallowed up in victory". That is clearly a reference back to verse 26 where it says the last enemy to be defeated is death. Clearly, death will be defeated on the day Christ returns because it will be "swallowed up in victory".

By the way, 1 Cor 15:54 is referring to the fulfillment of this passage:

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Here is another passage that shows the fulfillment of that verse:

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Using scripture to interpret scripture we can safely conclude that when Christ returns at the last trumpet, death will be swallowed up in victory, fulfilling 1 Cor 15:26 that says the last enemy to be defeated is death, and then "there shall be no more death" on the new earth.

 

[Davy]

You didn't answer my question.

I think I well have answered your question. But you have been silent on the Scripture references I posted.

You agree with me that 2 Peter 3:10-12 will occur on the day Christ returns. Great. Most premils that I've talked to don't believe that passage will occur on the day He returns. You know why that is? Because it clearly indicates that the entire earth will be burned up on that day. Which means there can't possibly be any mortal survivors when Christ returns on that day. No mortal survivors means no earthly millennial kingdom.

Zechariah 14 reveals the "entire" earth is not going to be burned up on that "day of the Lord", because of those earth changes described there with Jesus' coming. It would appear you have failed to look up that Greek for the KJV word "elements" in that 2 Peter 3:10 passage. It does not mean earthly material elements being burned up. It means a world order. God is going to destroy man's works off the surface of this earth, that is the concept of destruction given in the 2 Peter 3 chapter, or didn't you read the early part of that chapter about the earth destroyed by a flood before in the "world that then was"? Was the entire earth destroyed then? No, of course not, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

As for Matthew 13, here is something Jesus said there:

40 As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

I don't use later NT versions translated from a different set of Greek texts like from Wescott & Hort. So I don't do plays on the word 'age'. I use the KJV Bible, which says...

Matt 13:40-43
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

The actual 'end' of this present world, meaning the literal earth age division between this present one and the new heavens and a new earth is with the future "lake of fire" destruction of Satan and the wicked. That is the event Jesus is pointing to with those tares being cast into that fire. But in Rev.20 and Zech.14 we are clearly shown a period prior to that "lake of fire" destruction. Even Isaiah 24:21-23 hints at a period of time when the kings of the earth will be shut up in the pit prison, and then visited after many days, meaning before they are destroyed in the lake of fire...

Isa 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
KJV

I'm not going to address the rest of your post, because you're doing the very thing I warned about, i.e., disregarding Scripture that 'points' to Christ's future 1,000 years reign, but doesn't use the 1,000 years wordage.

These verses are about Christ's future reign of Rev.20, and are conditional for when Jesus reigns over all His enemies:

1 Cor 15:24-27
24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, 'all things are put under Him', it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.
KJV


An example of Jesus' future reign over His enemies with His elect saints:

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

When will that happen, for it has never happened yet to this day? Those represent Christ's direct enemies here on earth that serve the devil. If those wicked go into the lake of fire at Christ's return, then that event would not be possible. Yet there they will be, bowing to Christ Jesus in the future at the feet of His elect saints! This is one of the many Scripture reasons why Amill is not written in God's Word, but instead goes against it.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I think I well have answered your question. But you have been silent on the Scripture references I posted.

Are you kidding? I was far from silent on them. I practically wrote an essay in response to your original post and this is the response I get? I would say for certain that I was hardly being silent on the scripture references you posted.

Zechariah 14 reveals the "entire" earth is not going to be burned up on that "day of the Lord", because of those earth changes described there with Jesus' coming. It would appear you have failed to look up that Greek for the KJV word "elements" in that 2 Peter 3:10 passage. It does not mean earthly material elements being burned up. It means a world order. God is going to destroy man's works off the surface of this earth, that is the concept of destruction given in the 2 Peter 3 chapter, or didn't you read the early part of that chapter about the earth destroyed by a flood before in the "world that then was"? Was the entire earth destroyed then? No, of course not, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Come on. I believe you are being intellectually dishonest here. The fiery destruction Peter talked about is compared directly to the flood in 2 Peter 3:5-7. The flood affected the entire earth and killed all of the unbelievers on the earth. The fire that will come down when Christ returns will also affect the entire earth (the surface of the earth - I'm not saying the earth itself to the core will be annihilated) and will kill all unbelievers.

I gave commentary on Zechariah 14 on the other thread that we've had a conversation. I'm not about to post all the same things here that I posted there, so please go back there and read what I said about Zechariah 14. What I will repeat here is that it's not possible for future animal sacrifices to be reinstituted in the future, so you need to re-read Zechariah 14 with that in mind.

I don't use later NT versions translated from a different set of Greek texts like from Wescott & Hort. So I don't do plays on the word 'age'.

I don't have a problem with the KJV. The message isn't any different in either translation.

I use the KJV Bible, which says...

Matt 13:40-43
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

The actual 'end' of this present world, meaning the literal earth age division between this present one and the new heavens and a new earth is with the future "lake of fire" destruction of Satan and the wicked. That is the event Jesus is pointing to with those tares being cast into that fire. But in Rev.20 and Zech.14 we are clearly shown a period prior to that "lake of fire" destruction.

Regardless of whether the Greek word aion is translated as "the age" or "the world", does Matthew 24:3 not indicate that Jesus returns at the end of the "aion"?

Matt 24:3 (KJV) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (aion)?

I believe so. So, that means Matthew 13:40-43 happens when Christ returns. Is the separation of the righteous from the wicked described there any different than what is described in Matthew 25:31-46? I don't believe so. And Matthew 25:31-46 will occur "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him".

Even Isaiah 24:21-23 hints at a period of time when the kings of the earth will be shut up in the pit prison, and then visited after many days, meaning before they are destroyed in the lake of fire...

Isa 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
KJV

I'm not going to address the rest of your post, because you're doing the very thing I warned about, i.e., disregarding Scripture that 'points' to Christ's future 1,000 years reign, but doesn't use the 1,000 years wordage.

Of course you won't address the rest of my post, because you know you have no answer to what I said. And you are taking passages that clearly speak of all unbelievers being destroyed at Christ's second coming and trying to make it so that mortals somehow survive.

In 2 Peter 3:3-13 it could not be more clear that the entire earth surface will be burned up when Christ returns and the level of destruction is compared directly to the flood in Noah's day. How many unbelievers in the world survived that? None. Jesus compared His coming to what happened in the flood as well. This is what He said:

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus taught here exactly the same thing that Peter taught in 2 Peter 3. He indicated that heaven and earth will pass away when He comes just as Peter did. He said that the flood destroyed all unbelievers just as Peter pointed out and then He said "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be". That means just as the flood destroyed all unbelievers in the world, the same will occur when Jesus comes. He will destroy all unbelievers. But, as Peter pointed out, this time it will be by fire.

These verses are about Christ's future reign of Rev.20, and are conditional for when Jesus reigns over all His enemies:

1 Cor 15:24-27
24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, 'all things are put under Him', it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.
KJV

He reigns over all His enemies now. Scripture clearly teaches this.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Do you agree with these passages which say that all power was given to Him in heaven and in earth and that He reigns now "far above all principality and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named"? Why do you act as if He is not yet reigning? Maybe you need to re-evaluate your understanding of what it means for Him to reign since scripture very clearly teaches that He is reigning now and has been reigning for a long time already.

An example of Jesus' future reign over His enemies with His elect saints:

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

When will that happen, for it has never happened yet to this day? Those represent Christ's direct enemies here on earth that serve the devil. If those wicked go into the lake of fire at Christ's return, then that event would not be possible. Yet there they will be, bowing to Christ Jesus in the future at the feet of His elect saints!

That will happen on the day of judgment which will occur when He returns (Matt 25:31-46). All people will give account of themselves on that day and every knee will bow before Christ on that day (Rom 14:10-12). This verse is not a problem for amil whatsoever.

This is one of the many Scripture reasons why Amill is not written in God's Word, but instead goes against it.

Except that it doesn't go against Amill at all. And neither do any of the other scriptures that you think go against Amill. One scripture in particular that is very straightforward that premill can't possibly reconcile with its view is 2 Peter 3:3-13 which teaches the same thing that Jesus taught in Matt 24:35-39, but with more details. Premill stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the obvious. The entire earth surface and all the unbelievers still alive on it at the time will be burned up when Christ returns. It really couldn't be more clear. But premill still tries to get around that instead of accepting the truth.

 

[sparow]

Brethren in Christ Jesus, when we keep to God's Word as written, then understanding becomes simple as we stay with it, and not with listening to all sorts of traditions of men. Understanding the timing of the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns is simple when we do this keeping to what is written. (In my writings I refer to the KJV Bible).

Apostle Peter declared the "day of the Lord" as a final event of destruction on the last day of this present world earth age. In 2 Peter 3, he was covering the idea of 3 earth ages, the "world that then was", which was destroyed by water, and then "the heavens and the earth, which are now", which he said is preserved for destruction by fire (2 Peter 3:5-7).

Peter proclaimed that day of destruction on the final day of this present world as the "day of the Lord" timing:

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV


Apostle Paul also proclaimed that "day of the Lord" event coupled with a destruction upon the earth...

1 Thess 5:1-4
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
KJV


And again at the end of Hebrews 12, Apostle Paul proclaimed that day of destruction upon the earth coupled with God's consuming fire...

Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, 'Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV

Who didn't know about that coming shaking God will do on that day also? If you don't know about it, then why not, because we were well told about it in Isaiah 2 about that coming great shaking on the future "day of the Lord"? This not taught in your Church you say? What else have you missed from not studying God's Word for yourself? And make no mistake. This Hebrews 12 passage is about that same event of the "day of the Lord" that Peter and Paul were talking about.

Did you know our Lord Jesus pointed to His coming on that "day of the Lord"? In Revelation 16:15 He did, when He forewarned us that He comes "as a thief", and to keep our righteous garments lest we appear naked and in shame (spiritually). The next event described there is the battle of Armageddon on the 7th Vial. That "as a thief" idea He taught in His Olivet discourse in relation to His coming for His Church...

Matt 24:42-44
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
KJV

That is also the "as a thief in the night" idea that Apostles Paul and Peter were preaching in the above Scripture I posted about the "day of the Lord".

But places like below, in the Old Testament Book of Isaiah is where our Lord Jesus had already foretold about His coming on that "day of the Lord" to end this present world...

Isa 2:10-21
10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols He shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
KJV

So make no mistake, the "day of the Lord" event is the day of Christ's return to gather His Church, and reign over all nations on earth. It is when He will literally rule over all His enemies with His elect saints. That day has not arrived yet, because it will be when He will subdue 'all' the wicked on this earth.

You are trying to take symbolic language literally, the following verses are all talking about the same event:

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 20:11 (NKJV)
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (NKJV)
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

Exodus 15:9-10 (NKJV)
9 The enemy said, 'I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; My desire shall be satisfied on them. I will draw my sword, My hand shall destroy them.'
10 You blew with Your wind, The sea covered them; They sank like lead in the mighty waters.

Psalm 73:17-20 (NKJV)
17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; Then I understood their end.
18 Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction.
19 Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors.
20 As a dream when one awakes, So, Lord, when You awake, You shall despise their image.

Isaiah 13:5-7 (NKJV)
5 They come from a far country, From the end of heaven-- The LORD and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land.
6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore all hands will be limp, Every man's heart will melt,

 

[Douggg]

So make no mistake, the "day of the Lord" event is the day of Christ's return to gather His Church, and reign over all nations on earth. It is when He will literally rule over all His enemies with His elect saints. That day has not arrived yet, because it will be when He will subdue 'all' the wicked on this earth.

The issue is the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is never ending.

The Day of the Lord begins at a time the world is saying peace and safety. And begins when that illusion is shattered, by the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Find another - Day of the Lord - Day of Christ - perspective here:

Day/English: translated from the Hebrew word, yom. It's meaning changes based on the context used
Find in the Englishman’s Hebrew Concordance over 58 different ways "yom/day" has been translated in the King James Bible

"Yom" can refer to a variety of time periods, ranging from "forever" (Ps 23:6), "age" (Gen 18:11), "years" (I Kings 1:1), "always" (Deut 5:29), & "season" (Jos 24:7)

Via context, Gen 1 & 2, there are 3 different ways Moses used this word. The word "yom" refers to day as in "daylight" (12 hours) in Gen 1:5, to 24-hour days in Gen 1:14, & to a long period of time ("in the day") referring to all six of the preceding creation days in Gen 2:4

In the case of this post. I believe the meaning of the much anticipated Day of Lord is found here:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
(NOTE: In there 2 verses Day & night watch, are like 1000 yrs. A much longer time frame then the traditional 24 hrs associated with the word day)

Day of the Lord - Verse highlights

Isa 2:12-12 Man humbled. Isa 13:4-6 Battle, indignation, destruction

Jer 46:10 Vengeance, the sword shall devour

Eze 13:5 A battle in the day of the LORD

Joel 1:15 Day of the LORD, destruction. Joel 2:11 The day of the LORD is great and very terrible

Amos 5:18 The day of the LORD is darkness

Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

Zephaniah1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble,distress, wasteness, desolation, darkness, gloominess

Zephaniah 2:3 In the day of the LORD'S anger

Zechariah 14:
1 The day of the LORD cometh spoil shall be divided

2 I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle & the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Day of the Lord: Synopsis
Man humbled, Battle, indignation, destruction, vengeance, the sword shall devour, destruction, great & very terrible, darkness, mighty man shall cry bitterly, a day of wrath, a day of trouble, distress, desolation, gloominess, anger, houses rifled, women ravished

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ

Do the 12 above posted scripture on: The Day of the Lord. Sound like it's a blessed hope?

Thes 1:1 Thes is written to the body of Christ (Believers) in Thessalonica.

Day of Christ - Verse highlights

2 Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(NOTE: Believers are gathered to/by Christ)

2 Thes 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand
(NOTE: Believers, be at peace, "the day of Christ" is near)

Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Phil 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;

Phil 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
(NOTE: I don't see anything to rejoice about in the 12 scriptures posted on the Day of the Lord)

The Day of Christ: Is a day that The Body of Christ/Believers/Church, WILL REJOICE!. That's every person baptized by Christ with His indwelling Holy Spirit.

The Day of Christ is the Catching-up of: The Body of Christ/Believers/Church. The time frame of this event, happens in (the twinkle of an eye) micro-second.

1 Thes 4:16 The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel & with the trump of God: the dead in Christ shall rise first

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive & remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Thes 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words

When the terrible fearful "Day of the Lord comes". The Body of Christ/Believers/Church, are already with him!

Zec 14:5 On that day His feet will stand on Mt Olive. The Mt will split in 2 from east to west. Then the Lord your God will come, & "all the saints with Him"
(NOTE: All believers are with him. The already caught-up Body of Christ/Church)

Jude 14 Behold, the Lord "cometh" with 10 thousands of his saints
(NOTE: When Jesus physically returns, the saints/believers/church is with him)

1 Thessalonians 3:13 (B) "at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints"
(NOTE: When Jesus physically returns, ALL the saints/believers/church are with him)

John 14:
1 Jesus said; Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 (B) I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Believers, REJOICE, comfort each other, because the promised blessed hope - Titus 2:13: The Day of Christ, will soon be your reality! Amen

 

[Zao is life]

------------------------ Post deleted due posted in wrong thread----------------------

 

[Timtofly]

I agree that 2 Peter 3:10-12 and 1 Thess 5:1-4 refer to the day of Christ's return, but can you explain how anyone can possibly survive what is described in 2 Peter 3:10-12? Notice in 2 Peter 3:13 that Peter said that as a result of what he had just described regarding the destruction of the heavens and the earth we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth and he said nothing about an earthly millennial kingdom.

Notice how Peter did not say people will die nor be destroyed? Revelation 6 does not mention any one dying in the 6th seal. They all saw the face of the one sitting on the throne and the Lamb and were afraid, but not dead. Revelation 9:6

6 "In those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them."

Not very climatic if you cannot physically die.

 

[Timtofly]

You didn't answer my question. You agree with me that 2 Peter 3:10-12 will occur on the day Christ returns. Great. Most premils that I've talked to don't believe that passage will occur on the day He returns. You know why that is? Because it clearly indicates that the entire earth will be burned up on that day. Which means there can't possibly be any mortal survivors when Christ returns on that day. No mortal survivors means no earthly millennial kingdom.

It also means no separation of the goats and sheep. No separation of the wheat from the tares. In a split second all humanity will be destroyed by your interpretation. No room for judgment at all.

But even then physical death is how to get to the 1000 years. I agree no Adam sinful flesh moves on, all are dead. Your claim that all being dead voids the millennium is false. Revelation 20:4 clearly states dead people are resurrected. Resurrection is the only way into the millennium.

Just because 99% of pre-mill are wrong does not change God's Word. You are correct, that is if you accept people do not instantly disintegrate at the Second Coming. That is false. They see the return, and it does not kill them. The heavens are gone. This virtual planet is gone. All that is left is the flat earth God created in Genesis 1. Well that is all that is right now, but stating the obvious would remove Satan's deception from all of humanity even the elect. That is what Peter claims is destroyed. Science is obliterated.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Notice how Peter did not say people will die nor be destroyed?

Did He need to do that? Doesn't it go without saying that if the entire earth is burned up that people will die as a result? I believe so. What do you think will happen to the scoffers that Peter mentioned at that time?

Revelation 6 does not mention any one dying in the 6th seal. They all saw the face of the one sitting on the throne and the Lamb and were afraid, but not dead. Revelation 9:6

6 "In those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them."

Not very climatic if you cannot physically die.

If you would read Revelation 6:12-17 more carefully you should see that they say that right before the wrath of the Lamb comes down, not after. And Revelation 6:12-17 is regarding the sixth seal which is not parallel to the fifth trumpet, which is when Rev 9:6 occurs. The fifth trumpet does not occur after the sixth seal, it happens before it. You need to learn about the recapitulations or parallels that are contained within the book in order to understand it properly.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It also means no separation of the goats and sheep. No separation of the wheat from the tares. In a split second all humanity will be destroyed by your interpretation. No room for judgment at all.

I never said that. The judgment will follow that. I believe Revelation 20:9 is speaking of the same event and we all know that the judgment follows what occurs in Revelation 20:9.

But even then physical death is how to get to the 1000 years. I agree no Adam sinful flesh moves on, all are dead. Your claim that all being dead voids the millennium is false. Revelation 20:4 clearly states dead people are resurrected. Resurrection is the only way into the millennium.

I say that because 2 Peter 3:3-13 all relates to the second coming of Christ. Notice in verses 3 and 4 that it talks about people, shortly before His return, scoffing at the promise of Christ coming again. They will be punished for doing that.

Just because 99% of pre-mill are wrong does not change God's Word.

This is an interesting statement. So, 99% of premills are wrong and you are a premill. Do you know of anyone else who shares your particular premil view? Anyone on this forum or any names that I might recognize?

You are correct, that is if you accept people do not instantly disintegrate at the Second Coming. That is false. They see the return, and it does not kill them. The heavens are gone. This virtual planet is gone. All that is left is the flat earth God created in Genesis 1.

Wow. You have some unique interpretations, but this is one of the more unique ones I've seen. So, you believe people will be dwelling on a flat earth at some point?

 

[Timtofly]

Clearly, He will destroy "all dominion, authority and power" when He comes because the entire earth will be burned up on that day.

Peter says do not be ignorant. If you call it the Day of the Lord, it is clearly 1000 years with the Lord. The Day and the 1000 years go hand in hand, because 2 Peter 3:8 is the key to the whole Bible.

8 Moreover, dear friends, do not ignore this: with the Lord, one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.

Ignorant people ignore Peters warning. "Dearly beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord, as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." That is what Peter was getting across. Most of the modern translations whitewash this to take out the harshness and make people feel better about their theology.

One does not have to use Revelation 20 to prove any points. 2 Peter 3:8 is the proof verse. If an extrovert who normally speaks before thinking, did not give this truth a second thought, but blurted it out just like this verse:

16 Then Simon Peter answered, and said, Thou art that Christ, the son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered, and said to him, Blessed art thou, Simon, the son of Jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

...the Holy Spirit put the thought into the mind of Peter in 2 Peter 3:8.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Peter says do not be ignorant. If you call it the Day of the Lord, it is clearly 1000 years with the Lord. The Day and the 1000 years go hand in hand, because 2 Peter 3:8 is the key to the whole Bible.

8 Moreover, dear friends, do not ignore this: with the Lord, one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.

Peter is not saying there that the day of the Lord is equal to a thousand years. You need to read the verse which follows that to see the context.

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

The reason Peter pointed out that a day is like a thousand years and vice versa to God is not to show the duration of the day of the Lord, but rather to show that "the Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness". To us as humans, it seems like Jesus is taking a long time to return. But, to God, it hasn't been a long time at all. It's not even the case that it's just been 2 days to Him. That isn't Peter's point. To God it's as if no time has passed at all. Peter is merely pointing out that time is not a factor for God. You do know that God exists outside of the realm of time and space, right?

So, what Peter is saying in 2 Peter 3:8-9 is that while it seems to be a long time for Jesus to return to us, it hasn't been long at all to God and the reason He is waiting so long (to us) is that He doesn't want anyone to perish but instead wants everyone to repent. So, Jesus will not return until the right time when God has determined that everyone has gotten the opportunity to repent first.

 

[Timtofly]

Did He need to do that? Doesn't it go without saying that if the entire earth is burned up that people will die as a result? I believe so. What do you think will happen to the scoffers that Peter mentioned at that time?

If you would read Revelation 6:12-17 more carefully you should see that they say that right before the wrath of the Lamb comes down, not after. And Revelation 6:12-17 is regarding the sixth seal which is not parallel to the fifth trumpet, which is when Rev 9:6 occurs. The fifth trumpet does not occur after the sixth seal, it happens before it. You need to learn about the recapitulations or parallels that are contained within the book in order to understand it properly.

The recap is human opinion, not God’s Word. NO THANKS. I do not need to jumble up God’s Word and make it my own personal opinion like recap does.

No, because God clearly says the wrath happens after the sixth seal and continues until the 7 Thunder. People will die, people cannot just die on a whim.

Why do you re-arrange Scripture to make a point? That is just man's additives. The Trumpets cannot happen until the 144k are sealed. The 144k can not be sealed until after the Second Coming. Revelation 7:2-4

2 "I saw another angel coming up from the east with a seal from the living God, and he shouted to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea,
3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads!”
4 I heard how many were sealed — 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra’el:"

This is between the 6th and 7th seals. Revelation 8:1

"When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for what seemed like half an hour."

John said don't mess with this message. Do you not think that means rearranging it? If you think the earth burning up and everything in it is understood, then it should be understood that changing Revelation is adding and taking away from the intent.

The whole view we have on this existence that we think is there via science is going to be obliterated. But humans don't just vaporize. John gives us a 14 chapter account of the Day of the Lord. Chapter 12 is in part history. It is not a recap of the Seals, Trumpets, Thunders, and certainly not the 7 vials which Satan himself must endure. Satan only endures them if the 42 months happens. The 42 months happens because too many humans are still alive and not given a chance to go to Paradise. Satan demands their living hides to be cursed with God's expiration stamp 666. All humans should have met the Lord in the Air at the 6th Seal. That is the ideal outcome. No sheep nor goats. No wheat nor tares. All people of Adam going to their Home in Paradise that God created for Adam's whole family. The reality is that Broad is the highway leading to death and destruction.

 

[Timtofly]

I never said that. The judgment will follow that. I believe Revelation 20:9 is speaking of the same event and we all know that the judgment follows what occurs in Revelation 20:9.

I say that because 2 Peter 3:3-13 all relates to the second coming of Christ. Notice in verses 3 and 4 that it talks about people, shortly before His return, scoffing at the promise of Christ coming again. They will be punished for doing that.

This is an interesting statement. So, 99% of premills are wrong and you are a premill. Do you know of anyone else who shares your particular premil view? Anyone on this forum or any names that I might recognize?

Wow. You have some unique interpretations, but this is one of the more unique ones I've seen. So, you believe people will be dwelling on a flat earth at some point?

The earth is flat right now, but not a topic for this thread. Einstein claimed the length, the depth, and the height (of God's Love) is reality bound in the 4th dimension of time. The 3 dimensional shape of the length, the depth, and the height is a cube. New Jerusalem is a miniature version of reality. This cube, we call reality, is in 3 layers. Heaven, earth, and under the earth. All points found in Scripture. No, I will never convince any one, really. All we know, will be destroyed and reality revealed in the 6th seal.

 

[Davy]

You are trying to take symbolic language literally, the following verses are all talking about the same event:

You mean symbolic language has no real literal meaning, and is more like a fable in a nursery rhyme book? Afraid not. You have been misled. Symbolic language used in God's Word is always pointing to something literal and real, even when used as an expression or allegory. The symbols only serve as pointers. Thus trying to say taking symbolic language as literal is really an oxymoron statement that defies common sense. That's how many throw that kind of statement out too, as they have heard it used by others in false arguments.

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 20:11 (NKJV)
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (NKJV)
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

Exodus 15:9-10 (NKJV)
9 The enemy said, 'I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; My desire shall be satisfied on them. I will draw my sword, My hand shall destroy them.'
10 You blew with Your wind, The sea covered them; They sank like lead in the mighty waters.

Psalm 73:17-20 (NKJV)
17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; Then I understood their end.
18 Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction.
19 Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors.
20 As a dream when one awakes, So, Lord, when You awake, You shall despise their image.

Isaiah 13:5-7 (NKJV)
5 They come from a far country, From the end of heaven-- The LORD and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land.
6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore all hands will be limp, Every man's heart will melt,

If you believe those above verses are just metaphor, and not about a real destruction, then you have a huge surprise coming when Jesus appears coming in the clouds with His saints on the "day of the Lord". You don't understand the Power of God, nor His creation.

 

[Davy]

The issue is the beginning of the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is never ending.

The Day of the Lord begins at a time the world is saying peace and safety. And begins when that illusion is shattered, by the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

View attachment 289100

The "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night" with a "sudden destruction" upon the wicked, as Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thess.5. That Scripture fact has already been established as written.

So how can the time of "great tribulation" just be starting on that "day of the Lord"? Your theory from the Pretribulationalists defies common sense in God's Word. And that's not to mention even Apostle Peter's witness in 2 Peter 3:10-12 about the burning up of man's works off this earth on that "day of the Lord"!

Thus God's Word plainly declares the "day of the Lord" will end... the tribulation, the reign of the wicked on earth, man's works, and is linked with the time of Christ's coming in the clouds to gather His Church on the last day of this world.