Blacks want a "place at the table".

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
It depends on how, or if, they're used. There are places that are poor, but mining exploration sometimes reveals that those places have rich deposits of minerals that could be mined. But if the inhabitants of those places aren't aware of it or don't have the means of mining them, then it's no different than owning an acre of land sitting on top of an oil deposit that you aren't aware of and don't know how to drill for.
Such as??? What country are you talking about that doesn't even have the technology to pull oil out of the ground?
 
Upvote 0

NxNW

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,821
3,503
NW
✟190,591.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
The last President was black, it strikes me they have a place at the table.

The current President insists the previous President is not an American citizen because he's black, which is a pretty good indication he's trying to deny blacks a seat at the table.
 
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
The current President insists the previous President is not an American citizen because he's black, which is a pretty good indication he's trying to deny blacks a seat at the table.
Does the current President deny Ben Carson is a citizen because he's black? What about John James, Candice Miller or John Scott?
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
The current President insists the previous President is not an American citizen because he's black, which is a pretty good indication he's trying to deny blacks a seat at the table.
I think Trump's claims about Obama was more to do with the fact that Obama was born outside the Continental United States, and his father was from another country; not because he was black. Had one of his white political enemies had a foreign father and was born on a military base outside the USA, I'm sure he would have made the same claims.
 
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
How could that possibly be relevant?
You claim that Trump's questioning of Obama's birth status is an example of blacks not having a seat at the table. I'm pointing out the absurdity of your position by pointing to blacks that do have a seat at the table within his administration.

There have been plenty of people who have run for President in recent memory whose citizenship has been called into question. John McCain, Ted Cruz, Tulsi Gabbard etc. have all had their eligibility questioned. In fact, questioning the eligibility of someone to serve as President historically has happened frequently. Chester A. Arthur could tell you all about it.
 
Upvote 0

NxNW

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,821
3,503
NW
✟190,591.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
You claim that Trump's questioning of Obama's birth status is an example of blacks not having a seat at the table. I'm pointing out the absurdity of your position by pointing to blacks that do have a seat at the table within his administration.

Trump questioned Obama's citizenship because he is a black man. Trump has a long, well-documented history of racism. Your claim of "Look, here are a handful of blacks whose citizenship Trump hasn't questioned" is hardly a counterexample. There are plenty of people that Ted Bundy didn't murder, but Bundy was still a mass murderer.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,111
7,243
Dallas
✟873,878.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What would they talk about that would be different from what they're talking about now? And would they accuse others of racism if anyone questioned or disagreed with what they would be demanding?

Why would you think they would act any different from any other race? What your doing here is racist by making derogatory assumptions based on the color of their skin. Do some blacks act this way? Yes, do all of them act this way? No. Don’t judge a book by its cover brother. I know that you and I don’t like it when others do it to us either.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
For that to happen needs an overhaul of the system. Because without interference means they can be who they are without facing prejudice.

Being who they are doesn't necessarily mean breaking the law. Blacks have a distinct culture which should be encouraged, cultivated, instead of being discriminated if they don't act and dress like whites.

How does one act or dress like a white?

People of all proclivities and natures will discriminate by preferring their preferences over other peoples preferences. If someone agrees with you on something you will be more inclined to think better of them than those that disagree with you on that thing. It is not humanly possible to give equal weight and respect to behavior and ideas that one does not prefer as one gives to behavior and ideas that one does prefer.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Trump questioned Obama's citizenship because he is a black man. Trump has a long, well-documented history of racism. Your claim of "Look, here are a handful of blacks whose citizenship Trump hasn't questioned" is hardly a counterexample. There are plenty of people that Ted Bundy didn't murder, but Bundy was still a mass murderer.
Why would you assume that Trump questioned Obama's citizenship because he's black? Why not because he's a Democrat who Trumo wants to discredit for political gain? He said the same thing about Ted Cruz, not because he's Hispanic but because it was politically advantageous.

Trump does not have a long standing history of racism. Quite the opposite in fact. He was pals with Sharpton and Jackson before running for President. He was friends with numerous rappers and by some counts Trump was mentioned in over 100 rap songs before he ran for office. He isn't a racist.
 
Upvote 0

NxNW

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,821
3,503
NW
✟190,591.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
For that to happen needs an overhaul of the system. Because without interference means they can be who they are without facing prejudice.

Being who they are doesn't necessarily mean breaking the law. Blacks have a distinct culture which should be encouraged, cultivated, instead of being discriminated if they don't act and dress like whites.

The problem with "black culture" is that it's what I call a "chit'lin' culture." I didn't understand what Malcolm X meant back when I was a kid in the 60s; I understand him better now.

What is a "chit'in' culture?" Chitterlings are the intestines of swine. They are nasty, filled with feces, generally considered garbage. During slavery, the masters got the choice portions of the hog, the slaves got maws, feet, tails, and entrails. The slaves learned to pick away the most noxious parts of the chit'lin's very, very carefully, boil them very hard, season them very heavily to make them palatable and not immediately deadly.

The same happened with culture. Slavers stripped the kidnapped Africans of their own cultures, but allowed them to have only the entrails of American culture. Slaves--and freedmen as well--were not allowed to participate in the "choice cuts" of American culture. For that portion of American culture they were allowed, they picked away the most noxious parts very carefully, boiled it very hard, and seasoned it very heavily to make it palatable and not immediately deadly.

But the basic truth about both chitterlings and American culture for black people: It's not nutritious and ultimately unhealthy. Malcolm X understood that and thus advocated that blacks cake a top-to-bottom critical examination of the culture that we had so long strive to emulate and join, in fact, to reject it and develop a "for us, by us" culture that was actually beneficial to our American situation.

He thought Islam presented such an alternative culture. I disagree because I know Jesus is real. But I agree that American black people need that top-to-bottom critical review of what we call "African-American culture" that would ultimately involve rejecting a great deal of it.

Even as Christians, I think American black people should do that top-to-bottom critical examination of the way white people have taught us to "do church." Not the basic doctrines, but how as Christians we relate to one another and to the society at large. What's good for the dominant ethnic group is not necessarily good for everyone in it. "African-American culture" is a broken culture, and it's always been broken.

For instance, American Christians tend to look at poverty as being the fault of the impoverished. From the early and general acceptance of the un-biblical "God helps those who help themselves" to the modern "if you're poor, it's because you don't have enough faith," the poor are most quickly presumed to be poor by their own fault.

These Christians will point to, generally, verses from Proverbs to prove their point. However...Proverbs was written during the Israel Monarchy. At that time, Israel was the Promised Land flowing with "milk and honey." The Mosaic Law had specific provisions to prevent the kinds of accumulated debt, permanent transfer and accumulation of wealth, and other things that would create a permanent poverty class. In Solomon's time, it was probably true that if an Israelite was poor for very long, it was probably his fault.

By the time of Jesus, that system was broken. Jesus was aware that the poor were poor because of systematic economic oppression...which continues to this day even more efficiently.

That's the kind of thing black people need to look at closely even in the way that we do church. The Western European form of Christianity is not the only form to consider.
 
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I'm not assuming anything. The evidence, namely Trump's long history of racism, makes that conclusion inescapable.



And yet, Trump has a long standing history of racism.
I read that bit of clap trap when it came out. The Federal suit in the 70s was settled out of court with no admission of wrongdoing. Accusations were not proven. Furthermore, the business was simply following standard practices at the time. Those practices were outlawed and fell out of fashion and Trump's business changed with the times. People and businesses must be allowed to grow and change.

If Trump was such a racist he wouldn't have been pals with Sharpton and Jackson. Those guys would have gone after him and would have tried to hustle money out of him by publicly attacking him. They didn't do it.

Beyond all of that, his policies as President specifically helped blacks which is perhaps why he got a larger share of the black vote than any Republican in the last half century. I'm hardly a Trump fan (I didn't vote for him) but these accusations of racism are flimsy at best.
 
Upvote 0

Hazelelponi

I'm back
Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
9,210
8,688
55
USA
✟676,606.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What would they talk about that would be different from what they're talking about now? And would they accuse others of racism if anyone questioned or disagreed with what they would be demanding?

Since they already have a place at the table - all that is required is for them to sit down - then I fear what they would talk about would be no different than how they are now speaking, nor their demands different because they don't like the table they already have a place at.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: OldWiseGuy
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

NxNW

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,821
3,503
NW
✟190,591.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I read that bit of clap trap when it came out. The Federal suit in the 70s was settled out of court with no admission of wrongdoing.

Then he had no reason to settle.

Furthermore, the business was simply following standard practices at the time.

The Nazis were just following orders.

If Trump was such a racist he wouldn't have been pals with Sharpton and Jackson.

Again, pointing out two people that Ted Bundy failed to murder does not mean that Ted Bundy was not a murderer.
Beyond all of that, his policies as President specifically helped blacks

Trump had race-specific policies?
 
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Then he had no reason to settle.



The Nazis were just following orders.



Again, pointing out two people that Ted Bundy failed to murder does not mean that Ted Bundy was not a murderer.


Trump had race-specific policies?
I'm an attorney, believe me people settle all the time because it's cheaper and less risky than going to trial. It doesn't mean they're admitting wrong doing, it means they're making a business decision.

Comparison to Nazis is a losing argument.

Trump didn't have any race specific policies which is evidence that he isn't a racist. He viewed his policies as good for all Americans, not one group over another. While I don't agree with his protectionist trade policies (which I believe favor domestic sellers over business that sell abroad), until the Chinese Coronavirus hit all racial groups had increased incomes and unemployment was extremely low. For blacks in particular, unemployment rates hadn't been lower in 60+ years. Black teenage unemployment had not been lower.

Trump also addressed sentencing reform. I don't believe he went far enough (I would end the war on drugs and eliminate prison for non-violent offenses) but he and the Republicans passed a modest sentencing reform bill that didn't just aid blacks but all Americans. There is no question the prison industrial complex disproportionately harms blacks, Trump made more of an effort to address this situation than Obama.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Trump didn't have any race specific policies which is evidence that he isn't a racist.

That's a very naive statement from someone who is an attorney.

I'd point out that none of the voter suppression laws, such as poll taxes and literacy tests (with their grandfather clauses) up until the Voting Rights Act were "race specific" either.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: NxNW
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
That's a very naive statement from someone who is an attorney.

I'd point out that none of the voter suppression laws, such as poll taxes and literacy tests (with their grandfather clauses) up until the Voting Rights Act were "race specific" either.
Trump didn't sign a poll tax or literacy test into law. None of his policies were racist, you can't cite a single racist policy.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

NxNW

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,821
3,503
NW
✟190,591.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Trump didn't sign a poll tax or literacy test into law. None of his policies were racist, you can't cite a single racist policy.

Earlier, you said
his policies as President specifically helped blacks

then later you said
Trump didn't have any race specific policies

then after that you said
None of his policies were racist, you can't cite a single racist policy.

That's a pretty big retreat.

Well, I did post an entire list in the Atlantic article earlier. There are plenty of other examples, which have been discussed previously.
 
Upvote 0