Abortion and Sex Education

[Online.Gamer.79]

My stance on abortion is if a woman is a victim of rape and wants an abortion that should be her choice. Now I do not think she should be allowed to wait 6 months befor deciding. Fortunately most woman who have an abortion do so in the first few months. Second for medical reasons.

Now those two areas make up very small percentage.

And I have heard plenty of people on here argue against abortion for victims or rape or medical reasons.

So lets be real. If you make all abortion illegal you will accomplish nothing. Woman who can afford it will go to places that it is legal. Those who can not afford it will got back ally butchers.

So lets look at unwanted pregnancy's...98% of those can be prevented with condoms(if there used correctly, they have roughly 98% success rate) and as a plus they can prevent STD's such as HIV. There is also birth control pills. Proper sex education would solve the unwanted pregnancy problem.

Now for the moral conservative Christian View. You should be faithful to gods laws and not have sex till marriage. The problem with that is not every one is Christian and I know most hardcore conservative Christians do no respect any belief system but here own. Now starting at puberty and lasting into our 20's our bodies are going through major biological changes. Nature has imprinted on us the urge to mate. It is nice to preach wait till your married and some kids follow that but most kids even Christian ones do not. Teenagers and Young adult more often than not think with there hormones.

My parents made sure all of us had proper education, My mom showed my sisters how to put a condom on a banana my dad did the same for us boys. They made sure all of us had access to condoms and my sisters birth control. They wanted us to wait for marriage but if we did not they wanted us to be prepared. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

You Pro Lifers want to prevent abortion and every suggestion to do so you shoot down according to your moral and religious beliefs. Some people so not believe in god. This country is not freedom of Christianity...it is Freedom of Religion...the freedom to chose. Trying to force your religious and moral beliefs onto others does not help Christianity...its driving people away from it.

The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is to teach our young proper sex education...and its not just about pregnancy. There are fatal STDs out there and the proper use of a condom could literally save your Child's life.

All the preaching and hooting in the world does not change the fact that most teenagers and young adults make dumb mistakes...having unprotected sex can be a fatal one and if you fail to provide your child with the tools that could save there life and fail to do so...that is on you. One of my childhood friends from church got HIV when he was 16. He is dead now and if his parents had bothered to teach there child about condoms and how to use them...there is a 98% chance he would be alive today

 

[NerdGirl]

The solution to any of these issues is not "murder the child".

It's just not.

It never was, and it never will be.

 

[NerdGirl]

Abortion is not just a moral/religious issue. It is a legal one. There is a "right to life" in America. Every human being has it.

No government entity is willing (and rightly so) to definitively say when "life" begins in the womb, and when an unborn child begins to have a right to life. This has been a point of contention with the abortion issue for many years.

There are some legal cases that have charged for murder when an unborn child has died in utero from a physical attack on the mother. That sets a precedent that unborn children are alive, and human beings, with a legal right to life.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If you make all abortion illegal you will accomplish nothing.

Have we accomplished nothing by making murder illegal?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Have we accomplished nothing by making murder illegal?

I think we should treat murder "logically" like they treat abortion. We should say that because people often fall into the category of "involuntary manslaughter" that we need to legalize ALL murder in order to protect the right to accidentally kill people or kill them in self defense we need to allow people to plan to kill people the right to do so (murder 1).

There is sort of a "logic" to abortion in the case of rape or medical circumstances as the pregnancy on the part of the woman in "involuntary" and if a pregnancy will kill the mother it could be somewhat along the line of "self defense". too

We have courts that can decide on the more uncommon types of "killing/murder" of "birth certificate recipients" it could work on the extreme circumstance type of abortions perhaps.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Anyway I don't think abortion is supposed to be discussed here I think so I'm bowing out.

 

[SPF]

My stance on abortion is if a woman is a victim of rape and wants an abortion that should be her choice.

The problem with this position is that it is inconsistent. The morality of abortion is based upon how we understand the nature of the life inside the womb, not how it came into existence.

In other words, if it is immoral to kill a growing human being that did not come into existence because of rape, then it is also immoral to kill a growing human being that did come into existence because of rape. The how in which we came into existence has no bearing upon our moral worth and value.

It's really quite simple. If the growing human being in the womb is morally valuable, then it's immoral to intentionally kill them. Creating an exception for rape is saying that children born from rape somehow possess less moral worth and value than children born from loving parents.

So lets be real. If you make all abortion illegal you will accomplish nothing

Except of course for a lot less abortions. Stealing is illegal but people still steal. Should we just legalize stealing since people are going to do it anyway? It's certainly a lot more dangerous to steal now that it's illegal. People still murder other people even though it's illegal, should we just go ahead and legalize the killing of other people?

Again, this logic is flawed and doesn't hold up to close examination.

You Pro Lifers want to prevent abortion and every suggestion to do so you shoot down according to your moral and religious beliefs. Some people so not believe in god. This country is not freedom of Christianity...it is Freedom of Religion...the freedom to chose. Trying to force your religious and moral beliefs onto others does not help Christianity...its driving people away from it.

Abortion should be illegal because human beings are inherently morally valuable. The 98.5% of abortions performed for convenience reasons are immoral because intentionally and purposefully killing another innocent human being is wrong. It's not really a religious issue at all. Though Christians should be much more quick to realize the immorality of abortion since we come to the table with a better understanding of our inherent moral worth and value.

 

[NerdGirl]

In other words, if it is immoral to kill a growing human being that did not come into existence because of rape, then it is also immoral to kill a growing human being that did come into existence because of rape. The how in which we came into existence has no bearing upon our moral worth and value.

THIS.

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

Abortion is not just a moral/religious issue. It is a legal one. There is a "right to life" in America. Every human being has it.

No government entity is willing (and rightly so) to definitively say when "life" begins in the womb, and when an unborn child begins to have a right to life. This has been a point of contention with the abortion issue for many years.

There are some legal cases that have charged for murder when an unborn child has died in utero from a physical attack on the mother. That sets a precedent that unborn children are alive, and human beings, with a legal right to life.

You know what I actually do get it to a degree I agree with you. Tell me what does the mother of an unborn child who going to be born brain dead supposed to do. Or in the case of my mom, my dad dies she has cancer and is getting chemo and she finds out she is three months pregnant...even if she stopped the chemo the damage was done they were already finding serious problems with the fetus...now understand three of my moms kids were under under the age of 10 one them was five. She had no one to fall back on. So she had abortion. She felt she had know choice and our church with all there condemnation and judging did not want to help. And as for life...the fetus does not feel pain or have consciousness till around 28 weeks that part of the brain does not form till then...so before that point you can argue where it is a human or not. But that all aside my mom had to chose...stop chemo and try to carry to term a fetus the probably would not survive and she most defiantly would not survive and leave her young children without anyone but to state to take care of them. My mom chose to have an abortion. It was the hardest decision of her life. It is why I support the right for a woman to chose. You all keep talking about the rights of the child but not the mother. Giving birth can be fatal though it is not as dangerous as it used to be women still die giving birth, It has many side effect physical and metal that can affect a woman. If doing something cause you to die, have a mental breakdown then it needs to be your choice. And as for late term abortions...most woman and almost all doctors would not do it short medical emergency, such as the fetus or mother not surving.

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

THIS.

Actually read your bible...the punishment for killing a human being in the bible is death. If man causes a woman to miscarry he is fined. So the unborn child is not considered a living human being until it is born. That is in the bible. And I notice you ignore any idea that would reduce abortion. Or here this is an actually story a 10 year old girl was raped and you conservatives were actually trying force her to carry to term. Pregnancy does damage to a grown woman body and conservatives expected a 10 year old rape victim to carry to term. And you all wonder why so many people are leaving the church and organized religion of any kind

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

Have we accomplished nothing by making murder illegal?

No we haven't cause it does not stop. And I notice again your given a viable choice that help stop abortion and you saw only that line. You conservatives do not not want to solve the problem you just want to pass judgement and sit on soap box and preach. Every time a viable option is presented on almost all issues you conservatives shoot it down.

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

I think we should treat murder "logically" like they treat abortion. We should say that because people often fall into the category of "involuntary manslaughter" that we need to legalize ALL murder in order to protect the right to accidentally kill people or kill them in self defense we need to allow people to plan to kill people the right to do so (murder 1).

There is sort of a "logic" to abortion in the case of rape or medical circumstances as the pregnancy on the part of the woman in "involuntary" and if a pregnancy will kill the mother it could be somewhat along the line of "self defense". too

We have courts that can decide on the more uncommon types of "killing/murder" of "birth certificate recipients" it could work on the extreme circumstance type of abortions perhaps.

And again teach birth control it works. Along with preventing unwanted pregnancy it also prevent fatal STDS

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

Except of course for a lot less abortions.

No it does not. There plants that you can grown that will abort...if a woman has money she can go somewhere it is legal...and then they poor go to back ally butcher as I call them.

Abortion should be illegal because human beings are inherently morally valuable. The 98.5% of abortions performed for convenience reasons are immoral because intentionally and purposefully killing another innocent human being is wrong. It's not really a religious issue at all. Though Christians should be much more quick to realize the immorality of abortion since we come to the table with a better understanding of our inherent moral worth and value.

If the fetus has no chance of survival it is not valuable. My youngest nephew was born without most of his lung tissue and most his bone structure. When he was born most of those bones were totaled...he had enough breath to let out the most agonizing scream I have heard in my life and then spent the next hour suffocating to death. Sometimes death is a mercy. Aborting that fetus at three months would have been mercy...the part of the brain that feels pain and has consciousness does not form till about 28 weeks so yeah it would have been a mercy. And again the issue here is the unwanted pregnancies and those could prevented by birth control and proper use of a condom. Again conservatives do not want to come up with solutions...just pass your moral and religious beliefs and many people do not think the fetus is human. The bible sure does not. Read it if you commit murder and kill someone the punishment is death. If you cause a woman to miscarry you are fined...that is in the bible. So if the bible thought the fetus was a human being the punishment would have been death.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Actually read your bible...the punishment for killing a human being in the bible is death. If man causes a woman to miscarry he is fined. So the unborn child is not considered a living human being until it is born. That is in the bible. And I notice you ignore any idea that would reduce abortion. Or here this is an actually story a 10 year old girl was raped and you conservatives were actually trying force her to carry to term. Pregnancy does damage to a grown woman body and conservatives expected a 10 year old rape victim to carry to term. And you all wonder why so many people are leaving the church and organized religion of any kind

Exodus 21:22

If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows. 23But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life.

That includes the life of the baby.

The fine applies when there is NO mortality of Mother OR Baby.

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

Exodus 21:22

If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows. 23But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life.

That includes the life of the baby.

The fine applies when there is NO mortality of Mother OR Baby.

And again ignoring solutions to help stop abortion...never being the solution

 

[Carl Emerson]

And again ignoring solutions to help stop abortion...never being the solution

You know nothing about me... and I was just correcting your misuse of scripture...

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

You know nothing about me... and I was just correcting your misuse of scripture...

Your right I do not know you but I do know that I have never heard of a conservative coming up with solutions. Again the sickest story I ever heard was of a 10 year old girl being raped and conservatives trying to force here to carry to term. I mean for an adult woman preganacy does a lot of damage and they seemed to have know with the child's suffering they were so focused on the unborn child that they ignored the fact that this was a 10 year old child. So yeah I do not have much respect for conservatives it is not a black and white issue it never has been

 

[Noxot]

Proper sex education would solve the unwanted pregnancy problem

All the preaching and hooting in the world does not change the fact that most teenagers and young adults make dumb mistakes...

A Utopia in this world is too much to hope for. Teaching people proper ways to have sex for fun and bonding is just another way of preaching at people. Pure Pleasure will win over someone every once in awhile and they will say just this one time I won't use a condom.

Nowadays the government can punish the man for his sexual immorality if he makes a baby. so that is a plus to women who are the ones that would suffer the most if they got pregnant. But some complain of the welfare state supporting bad behavior and consequences. They say that the government is replacing men. When I see how many fatherless children there are I have to somewhat agree with them.

I don't think there are going to be perfect answers in an imperfect world. Technology is going to have to supplement us more and more. I assume that eventually humans will come up with perfect birth control methods. they might even be forced upon people since no one seems to be able to control themselves anymore. why not I guess, people can already decide if others should have guns or not and if people are allowed to drive or not.

Maybe you should have to take a test and have a license and be evaluated if you want to have a child.

 

[Noxot]

Your right I do not know you but I do know that I have never heard of a conservative coming up with solutions. Again the sickest story I ever heard was of a 10 year old girl being raped and conservatives trying to force here to carry to term. I mean for an adult woman preganacy does a lot of damage and they seemed to have know with the child's suffering they were so focused on the unborn child that they ignored the fact that this was a 10 year old child. So yeah I do not have much respect for conservatives it is not a black and white issue it never has been

Getting an abortion can harm the woman as well. I knew a woman who was suffering from thyroid issues but I guess she recovered. It was her second abortion. They were abortions of inconvenience.

 

[coffee4u]

You know what I actually do get it to a degree I agree with you. Tell me what does the mother of an unborn child who going to be born brain dead supposed to do. Or in the case of my mom, my dad dies she has cancer and is getting chemo and she finds out she is three months pregnant...even if she stopped the chemo the damage was done they were already finding serious problems with the fetus...now understand three of my moms kids were under under the age of 10 one them was five. She had no one to fall back on. So she had abortion. She felt she had know choice and our church with all there condemnation and judging did not want to help. And as for life...the fetus does not feel pain or have consciousness till around 28 weeks that part of the brain does not form till then...so before that point you can argue where it is a human or not. But that all aside my mom had to chose...stop chemo and try to carry to term a fetus the probably would not survive and she most defiantly would not survive and leave her young children without anyone but to state to take care of them. My mom chose to have an abortion. It was the hardest decision of her life. It is why I support the right for a woman to chose. You all keep talking about the rights of the child but not the mother. Giving birth can be fatal though it is not as dangerous as it used to be women still die giving birth, It has many side effect physical and metal that can affect a woman. If doing something cause you to die, have a mental breakdown then it needs to be your choice. And as for late term abortions...most woman and almost all doctors would not do it short medical emergency, such as the fetus or mother not surving.

"Tell me what does the mother of an unborn child who going to be born brain dead supposed to do?"

As the mother to a baby who I knew was going to die at or shortly after birth I have to comment here. After discovering our daughter had anencephaly at the 20 weeks scan we were offered an abortion-we said no. I carried her for as long as possible, she died 40 minutes after birth and we had a funeral and a grave plot that we can visit.

Psalm 139

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.​

I said this recently in another thread, that people who have not been given such devastating news seem to have a lot of opinions for what we should do but you have no idea. We are glad you have no idea because nobody should get such news. But please realize you have no clue what would be helpful and leave it at that.

First having an abortion solves nothing. Abortion does not make it better. Abortion does not help our grief. How does knowing you signed papers to end your babies life going to help in any way?
Knowing that you ended your child's life sooner than God intended does not help a woman emotionally at all, that simply adds the sin of murder to an already horrible situation.

What is helpful is holding your baby and holding a proper funeral. Your child's life is acknowledged. Acknowledgement is very important. Babies who are aborted get thrown in the trash, they do not get a burial or a grave plot, nobody acknowledges them, people pretend they don't exist because it makes them feel more comfortable.
How will that help the mother emotionally?
Too often people on the outside want to run away from the reality that the parents are going through. They do this with miscarriage as well. Do not say 'well it may have been for the best' or 'now you can have a healthy baby' Not unless maybe you would like a black eye. People don't know what to say and that's okay, just say 'I'm sorry for your loss' or say nothing at all. But their awkwardness is not our concern. We are not doing what we do to help them cope.

As to rape, there is a member on here who had a child through rape. She said not having an abortion was the best decision that she ever made. I hope she turns up and posts here. People need to stop imagining that abortion is some kind of cure all, it is not.
I hope you think on this.