True for manyIf actions tell if one believes in God or not, then Christians don't believe in God anymore than atheists do.
2) There is a difference between "not believing in gods" and "believing there are no gods".
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True for manyIf actions tell if one believes in God or not, then Christians don't believe in God anymore than atheists do.
2) There is a difference between "not believing in gods" and "believing there are no gods".
Miraculously healing: a missing limbs, cerebral palsy and Downs at this time, would provide irrefutable scientific proof of the Christian God’s existent to at least some people without their need for faith in God’s existence. Faith is needed and required for salvation, so for the sack of these skeptics<God will not miraculously heal these individuals.
With the “Hell gun” at your head, you are not making a really choice with likely alternatives. The hell gun goes away with believing in God and not knowledge of God.
If you start with faith then knowledge is great.
Knowledge without faith is disbelief and will not produce righteous worship.
You look at a tree and say: “I do not know how life could come about from nonliving chemicals, so God could be the answer.” What controls what you believe about “How life came about”?
You need faith and not knowledge. Faith/trust is a humbling activity and humility is need to accept pure charity as charity and you must be willing to humbly accept pure charity as charity for God to shower you with wonderful undeserving gifts. God is not going to force His charity (Love) you like at some shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun.
You are being asked to place your faith in the most likely logical alternative and not something totally illogical.
We are talking about the choice between alternatives (God exists or God does not exist) and which is the more likely.
This thread has been trying to show one supporting evidence for “God not existing”, being the fact, He does not seem to answer a pray that would give scientific verifiable proof for at least some people for His existence.
I have just pointed out the logical reason, why God has not and will not do such a thing.
This has all been addressed in previous posts and I have nothing more to add.Again, you are making all of this up.
1. In regards to the topic of prayer, God makes no such disclosures, caveats, or exceptions to His given rule(s).
2. Furthermore, if anecdotal testimonials are to be taken for face value, I have relatives who claimed no prior faith, whom also later claimed to have miraculous prayers answered on their behalves; for which they then stated it could only have come from the God for which the other person prayed for them.
3. I myself had nothing but faith for over 3 decades. I also asked for God's revelation in prayer. I never received as such.
4. I have faith now that you can pray for God to reveal His existence to me, in a way I would know He is real. It's plausible I would then completely change my outlook on His Word. So what the heck are you waiting for?
5. God would have to be playing favorites, to decline such earnest prayer requests, to preserve the possibility that some may later come through pure faith.
6. How much faith is enough faith, and for how long is it necessary before He grants any proof to the pre-faithful?
7. If God wants relationships with His creation, seems quite odd He wants to remain so well hidden.
8. God states there will be a time where 'every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.' Are you saying He will reject all of the ones whom received this given knowledge, which then turn all into followers, whom did not first possess faith? Because the Bible does not say this?
This would be to assume that the ONLY reason I would follow, was to avoid hell. Maybe if He revealed Himself to me, and struck up a relationship, for which I asked for decades BTW; maybe 'the hell gun' would not be the reason I would ultimately worship Him
Yet again, you are making all of this up. The Bible does not look to require this... Please also revisit the 8 listed reasons above.
Good question...
I would say, give me the evidence for YHWH specifically, and I will then discern if this evidence leads specifically to YHWH, or just remains to support generic deism The Bible certainly did not get me there. Praying certainly did not ever get me there. Even when I was faithful for years and years.
As it stands now, at best, I could now and currently call myself a very skeptical and very generic deist? Assuming that I am, please bridge the gap from that; to YHWH.
Again, I had faith for decades. Again, you are making all of this up. And again, you look to be trying to wiggle your way out of a very simple request. Again, please do not worry about my fate. Again, according to the Bible, disbelief equals hell, 100% of the time. I currently possess disbelief. Knowledge, which then might later lead to a relationship, repent, and worship, has possibilities. Maybe I would fall down this path? You have nothing to loose to pray for me.
I have asked you several times. The only conclusion I now take away, from these given responses, is in line with the gist of the OP...
Christians do not pray for certain things, because it's likely they too do not have enough 'faith' to think YHWH actually exists.
All you look to be doing here now, is providing blank excuses, to avoid performing a very simple and very quick request.
I will no longer ask you to pray for me. I have a sneaking suspicion you believe there may not be such a God to actually answer. What does this actually say about YOUR claim to the topic of faith?
You've missed my point. You cannot simply will a current belief change. You first need a catalyst or evidence of some sort.
I currently am in the disbelief camp, for YHWH specifically. I have explained why. --- I had faith for decades. God never provided my many repeated requests for revelation. I ultimately stopped trying. And now I have doubt.
This thread is to show exactly what YOU are doing. Which is not praying for anything which could actually demonstrate His existence. Which means that maybe YOU do not really have enough faith He is real
And no, I have given you 8 counter points above, which likely debunks your blank assertion as to "why" God will not answer such prayer(s).
This has all been addressed in previous posts and I have nothing more to add.
I think we've reached the end of this thread with a pretty clear answer.Thank you for the exchange. I guess all whom read this looong exchange, can make up their own minds as to whether or not your assertions make any sense at all.
The indwelling Holy Spirit is the Christian's guarantee and not a positive answer to a request which should not be asked for.I think we've reached the end of this thread with a pretty clear answer.
Christians never pray for impossible things because they know they won't get them.
The question now is, do they consciously know that God doesn't exist, or unconsciously?
Please remember that we do not control God. Sometimes God says no, and sometimes he says yes.
Actually, prayer itself seems to be an impossible thing. There are probably several hundred prayers being said around the world at any given moment . Even if the supreme being dedicated all of His time to nothing but hearing prayers how can He keep all of them separate so He can make a decision on each one? And the prayers keep coming 24/7.
Interesting, what you see if you observe Christians praying.
They pray for things which, really, might happen anyway, if they get lucky.
They pray for a friend to be healed. Well, people do recover from illnesses all the time. But you never see Christians praying for a person's leg to grow back.
Is it because they know God wouldn't do this (even though - if He exists - He certainly has the power to)?
Christians pray for people who have suffered a bereavement to find peace. Well, of course, people usually do get over their feelings of grief, sooner or later. But they hardly ever pray for a person to be brought back to life.
Christians claim that God is quite capable of bringing people back to life.
Do they not ask Him to because they know that God doesn't actually answer prayers for impossible things?
Christians pray for people suffering cancer to have the strength to face their ordeal. Maybe they even pray for the cancer to vanish. But they never pray for all cancer all over the world to vanish and never return. I wonder why?
Maybe they know that, no matter how hard they pray, that just isn't going to happen.
Um. Do Christians actually secretly know that God isn't real?
They certainly don't seem to act like He's real.
Very confusing.
The Bible teaches us what we ought to pray for. I suspect that Christians don't pray for things like this because we know from other parts of Scripture that certain things aren't going to happen until Jesus returns to completely restore the world. We are invited to pray for sick people to be healed and become well. But to pray for an end to world hunger or poverty or for an end to all sickness would be what we call an "over-realized eschatology". One day God will put an end to all these things, but until Jesus returns we will always have the poor among us - as he taught us. Prayer is not an antidote to end all suffering here and now. It would be biblically illiterate to pray in such a way.