Progressives furious over Supreme Court Justice Alito comments

[section9+1]

Homosexuality gets called out because it is constantly being pushed into everyone's face. Christians aren't out to get homosexuals any more than any other sin, but they will react to whatever is flying in their faces.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Dogmas aren’t facts !

What 'dogma'? It is biblical....it is directly from God.....it is His word to His people. It seems you are trying to muddy the conversation by making claims that are not true.

What about, do unto others...? Would you like to be treated the way some fundamentalists want to treat gays or women ? Especially if it’s over a religious opinion that not everyone ,or even every Christian, shares?

That's a conversation for another thread but it would be a good one....though it should be limited to the Christian forums.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

So why is it always homosexuality that gets called out? What about adultery and all lewd behavior? What about lies, misrepresentations and slander? What about mistreatment of strangers, the poor and the vulnerable.? What about blatant racism? Hate speech extends to all forms of dehumanization and exploitation.

Today it's homosexuality that is called out because of the political activism of the LGBTQ political groups.

It wasn't long ago that we didn't have to worry about having a ladies and men's sign on the restrooms. Today, if the public uses the church hall, the signs have to be replaced with just "Restroom." My parish rents out the hall in the summer to a local private school and had to eliminate the signs.

Today, parishes and dioceses are being sued by LGBTQ activists for discrimination. My own dioceses was sued because they supposedly refuse to sell a piece of property to a gay couple. The gay couple dropped the case as the dioceses had no idea who had made the bid on the property. It still cost the dioceses legal defense expenses and they never made it to court.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Homosexuality gets called out because it is constantly being pushed into everyone's face. Christians aren't out to get homosexuals any more than any other sin, but they will react to whatever is flying in their faces.

But no one is making Christians do homosexual acts. They are imposing their own religious beliefs on others and wanting to limit their civil liberties.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Only 8 were saved through the Ark.
Only 2 that came out of Egypt made it into the promised land.

Stay true my friend.

Not sure of your meaning.....

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But no one is making Christians do homosexual acts. They are imposing their own religious beliefs on others and wanting to limit their civil liberties.

Actually, it's the other way around. LGBTQ groups are forcing their lifestyles onto society and they're using the legislature to help them.

 

[civilwarbuff]

So why is it always homosexuality that gets called out? What about adultery and all lewd behavior? What about lies, misrepresentations and slander? What about mistreatment of strangers, the poor and the vulnerable.? What about blatant racism? Hate speech extends to all forms of dehumanization and exploitation.

Because that is not what this thread is in reference to but feel free to start a thread discussing those things.

 

[NotreDame]

. Oppressing others isn’t freedom for them . Religious freedom in the USA at least , has meant that that isn’t permissible( well until fairly recently that did mean you could oppress women ,POC , and gays) . The scary thing is that some regressive religious people want to bring all of those back .

Well, unfortunately your use of the word “oppressing” is unclear. There’s no way at the moment to know what you are objecting to presently. There may be some agreement, disagreement, or a mix, depending upon what specifically you mean by “oppression.” Can you give a clarification and example?

 

[civilwarbuff]

What happened to "love one another"? We should really reflect on what our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth did when He walked the earth. He came for the sinner! He ate and drank with sinners! He healed sinners and brought sinners into His fold. HE DIED ON THE CROSS FOR SINNERS! And we can't manage to bake a cake for a sinner? Let us reason. Let us go back to our first love. Blessings.

And He called the priests "You snakes, you nest of vipers....."(among other things) which was quite the insult.....so I guess Jesus was just practicing up on his 'hate speech'?..... or was He just calling a spade a spade?

 

[section9+1]

But no one is making Christians do homosexual acts. They are imposing their own religious beliefs on others and wanting to limit their civil liberties.

As far as I'm concerned homosexuality need never become illegal in the US or in the world. But that does not mean it isn't illegitimate behavior from a biblical standpoint. And when people try to turn wrong into right, yes, assume a pushback from those who try to use God's word as their measure of truth and right. I'm not saying we should get rid of homosexuals any more than we should get rid of liars or cheaters, but we should never justify those acts as containing any degree of righteousness. It isn't the act itself that I push against; it is the legitimacy of it that I resist.

 

[NotreDame]

Christians aren’t being abused by being told that they can’t mistreat others who are not Christians, or not male, or nonwhite, or nonbinary, or any mixture of the above. Some people just get offended when told that they have act like adults rather than act like spoiled children wanting all the toys

. Dogmas aren’t facts ! Abuse is abuse . What about, do unto others...? Would you like to be treated the way some fundamentalists want to treat gays or women ? Especially if it’s over a religious opinion that not everyone ,or even every Christian, shares?

It would be helpful if you specifically stated what kinds of “treatment” you find objectionable.

 

[section9+1]

I don't abuse gays. I have a close friend who is as gay as they come. I value his friendship and his company. I will tolerate how he lives but I will never justify it. I don't tell him anything because he already knows enough. It's his choice. Doesn't make it right. He doesn't try to justify it in front of me and I won't let him. So we are at peace.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

As far as I'm concerned homosexuality need never become illegal in the US or in the world. But that does not mean it isn't illegitimate behavior from a biblical standpoint. And when people try to turn wrong into right, yes, assume a pushback from those who try to use God's word as their measure of truth and right. I'm not saying we should get rid of homosexuals any more than we should get rid of liars or cheaters, but we should never justify those acts as containing any degree of righteousness. It isn't the act itself that I push against; it is the legitimacy of it that I resist.

I can see promoting one's own perspective on Biblical morality. No problem. But forcing it in a pluralistic society is another matter. Civil unions, for example. The argument against it is entirely religious based.

 

[section9+1]

I can see promoting one's own perspective on Biblical morality. No problem. But forcing it in a pluralistic society is another matter. Civil unions, for example. The argument against it is entirely religious based.

I am good with civil unions being performed on a secular level in a secular society for secular reasons. No problem. I am not out to reform the world.

 

[Albion]

With respect to the title of the thread...

Many of these folks seem to specialize in being furious.

Even when they've won, they are as outraged and furious over something or other as if things were going badly for them.

 

[NotreDame]

What happened to "love one another"? We should really reflect on what our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth did when He walked the earth. He came for the sinner! He ate and drank with sinners! He healed sinners and brought sinners into His fold. HE DIED ON THE CROSS FOR SINNERS! And we can't manage to bake a cake for a sinner? Let us reason. Let us go back to our first love. Blessings.

This is often quoted in debates such as this one but there isn’t an explicit contradiction between what you’ve said and a Christian baker refusing to make a wedding cake for a same sex marriage.

To get to the contradiction you seek requires some unstated assumptions. One such assumption is love would require a christian to engage in some conduct in relation to some event, external event/conduct, or external thing, that the Christian perceives their conduct as endorsing, approving, or condoning what they believe to be sinful in regards to the external thing or some external conduct/event.

Love does not reach to those depths. Jesus’ love did not lead to any action on his behalf of condoning, endorsing, or approving sinful conduct.

 

[NotreDame]

My grandmother, mother, aunts and female cousins were not treated like children.

My wife and daughter certainly aren't treated like children.

If anything, the women in men's lives generally help them to grow up. I know my wife raised me well.

It doesn’t make sense to argue with @Brightmoon about her experiences and what she’s witnessed. They are still her experiences and doesn’t change what she has witnessed.

 

[NotreDame]

I’m a woman in my mid 60s . If you think I don’t know about female oppression think again . I was the one being subjected to it. A lot of it was due to religious based customs including toxic patriarchy

Now that I’ve seen and witnessed. Here’s another asinine religious custom I despised. Dancing. Yes, the pastor of my church, when counseling us during the premarital stage and planning the wedding as he was presiding over the ceremony, he noticed we had dancing on our invitation. He told us, well attempted to tell us of the perils associated with dancing. I asked for a verse. He provided several that required so many assumptions to get to where he was going, that it required ten degrees of separation from the verse itself and a willful acceptance of the fact it was an illogical stretch of the verses.

We had dancing anyway.

 

[hedrick]

“For many today, religious liberty is not a cherished freedom. It’s often just an excuse for bigotry and can’t be tolerated, even when there is no evidence that anybody has been harmed,” Alito said during a virtual event with the Federalist Society’s National Lawyers Convention, a conservative legal network. “The question we face is whether our society will be inclusive enough to tolerate people with unpopular religious beliefs.”

“Homophobic rhetoric isn’t a matter of free speech. It’s a matter of hate speech,” Rep. Jimmy Gomez, D-Calif., said on Twitter Friday. “These are stunning, harmful words from Justice Alito.”


No, Mr. Gomez, it is not 'hate speech' (whatever the heck that is). It is free RELIGIOUS speech; but maybe he believes that the Bible is a book of 'hate speech'? Little by little the far left wing of the democratic party chips away at our religious freedoms. How long do we stand by and say/do nothing about it?.....just my 2 cents worth.....

I would agree that at least some anti gay speech is hate speech. However hate speech isn’t a legal category in the US, and thus is protected unless there’s a fairly direct threat in it.

 

[hedrick]

I should note that anti-gay rhetoric is not necessarily harmless, as the quoted words from Alito seem to claim. The Bible is pretty clear that the tongue can create damage, and that we are called upon to restrain it. However our legal system can't and shouldn't implement every Biblical command.

The OP actually gives the wrong context for Gomez' words. Here's what he was actually responding to: "You can’t say that marriage is a union between one man and one woman” any more, Justice Alito said. “Until very recently, that’s what the vast majority of Americans thought. Now it’s considered bigotry.”"

I think Gomez' response isn't a very good one. You most certainly can say that marriage is between a man and a woman. People do it all the time. The fact that many of us think it's bigotry is just as much an exercise of free speech as the original statement. I'm not aware of anyplace in the US where either is illegal, nor should it be.