Paul Teaches from the TaNaK: Romans 1

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Romans 1
CLV(i) 1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, a called apostle, severed for the evangel of God" 2 (which He promises before through His prophets in the holy scriptures), 3 concerning His Son (Who comes of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 Who is designated Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead), 5 Jesus Christ, our Lord, through Whom we obtained grace and apostleship for faith-obedience among all the nations, for His name's sake, 6 among whom are you also, the called of Jesus Christ:" 7 to all who are in Rome, beloved by God, called saints:

This is who this letter is addressed to, the Saints of Rome. We are reading someone else's mail. These are kadosh men who apply the Torah to their lives. This helps to understand the context of this letter.

Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." 8 First, indeed, I am thanking my God through Jesus Christ concerning all of you, that your faith is being announced in the whole world." 9 For God is my Witness, to Whom I am offering divine service in my spirit in the evangel of His Son, how unintermittingly I am making mention of you always in my prayers" 10 beseeching, if somehow, sometime, at length I shall be prospered, in the will of God, to come to you." 11 For I am longing to see you, that I may be sharing some spiritual grace with you, for you to be established:" 12 yet this is to be consoled together among you through one another's faith, both yours and mine." 13 Now I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, that often I purposed to come to you (and was prevented hitherto) that I should be having some fruit among you also, according as among the rest of the nations." 14 To both Greeks and barbarians, to both wise and foolish, a debtor am I." 15 Thus this eagerness of mine to bring the evangel to you also, who are in Rome." 16 For not ashamed am I of the evangel, for it is God's power for salvation to everyone who is believing - to the Jew first, and to the Greek as well." 17 For in it God's righteousness is being revealed, out of faith for faith, according as it is written: "Now the just one by faith shall be living."

(CLV) Hab 2:4
Behold, it is made presumptuous: his soul is not upright in him. Yet the just one by his faith shall live.

So the next time someone tells you, "we aren't justified by works. That's Old Testament. In the New Testament we are justified by faith," you can say, "that's teaching comes from the TaNaK."


18 For God's indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men who are retaining the truth in injustice, 19 because that which is known of God is apparent among them, for God manifests it to them." 20 For His invisible attributes are descried from the creation of the world, being apprehended by His achievements, besides His imperceptible power and divinity, for them to be defenseless,

(CLV) Ps 19:1
The heavens are recounting the glory of El, And the atmosphere is telling the work of His hands.


21 because, knowing God, not as God do they glorify or thank Him, but vain were they made in their reasonings, and darkened is their unintelligent heart." 22 Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid, 23 and they change the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of a corruptible human being and flying creatures and quadrupeds and reptiles. 24 Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves, 25 those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen!" 26 Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature." 27 Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be." 28 And according as they do not test God, to have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting, 29 filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers, 30 vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents, 31 unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:" 32 those who, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them."

Paul Teaches from the TaNaK: Romans 2
 
Last edited:

Blade

Veteran
Supporter
Dec 29, 2002
8,165
3,989
USA
✟629,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not sure what this is really about. Well not sure what else Paul would have taught from other then the Torah , Nevi’im , and Ketuvim aka Tanakh. OT NT its all His word. I ask because you made sure to highlight the blue text.

Just wondering is this about no works, justified by faith. Lol it is me so..
 
  • Useful
Reactions: HARK!
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,129
3,211
Prescott, Az
✟36,927.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Chapter 1
1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, a called apostle, severed for the evangel of God
2 (which He promises before through His prophets in the holy scriptures),
3 concerning His Son (Who comes of the seed of David according to the flesh,
4 Who is designated Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead),
5 Jesus Christ, our Lord, through Whom we obtained grace and apostleship for faith-obedience among all the nations, for His name's sake,
6 among whom are you also, the called of Jesus Christ:
7 to all who are in Rome, beloved by God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, indeed, I am thanking my God through Jesus Christ concerning all of you, that your faith is being announced in the whole world.
9 For God is my Witness, to Whom I am offering divine service in my spirit in the evangel of His Son, how unintermittingly I am making mention of you always in my prayers
10 beseeching, if somehow, sometime, at length I shall be prospered, in the will of God, to come to you.
11 For I am longing to see you, that I may be sharing some spiritual grace with you, for you to be established:
12 yet this is to be consoled together among you through one another's faith, both yours and mine.
13 Now I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, that often I purposed to come to you (and was prevented hitherto) that I should be having some fruit among you also, according as among the rest of the nations.
14 To both Greeks and barbarians, to both wise and foolish, a debtor am I.
15 Thus this eagerness of mine to bring the evangel to you also, who are in Rome.
16 For not ashamed am I of the evangel, for it is God's power for salvation to everyone who is believing -- to the Jew first, and to the Greek as well.
17 For in it God's righteousness is being revealed, out of faith for faith, according as it is written: "Now the just one by faith shall be living."

(CLV) Hab 2:4
Behold, it is made presumptuous: his soul is not upright in him. Yet the just one by his faith shall live.

So the next time someone tells you, "we aren't justified by works. That's Old Testament. In the New Testament we are justified by faith," you can say, "that's teaching comes from the TaNaK."


18 For God's indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men who are retaining the truth in injustice,
19 because that which is known of God is apparent among them, for God manifests it to them.
20 For His invisible attributes are descried from the creation of the world, being apprehended by His achievements, besides His imperceptible power and divinity, for them to be defenseless,

(CLV) Ps 19:1
The heavens are recounting the glory of El, And the atmosphere is telling the work of His hands.


21 because, knowing God, not as God do they glorify or thank Him, but vain were they made in their reasonings, and darkened is their unintelligent heart.
22 Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid,
23 and they change the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of a corruptible human being and flying creatures and quadrupeds and reptiles.
24 Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves,
25 those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen!
26 Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature.
27 Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be.
28 And according as they do not test God, to have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting,
29 filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers,
30 vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents,
31 unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 those who, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them.
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh
;
To fulfill the Law, the prophets and the Psalms.
Luke 24:44. And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead.
John 3:
6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 4:
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father
in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

2 Corinthians 3:17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

John 6:63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that
I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not
after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh,
but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after
the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds
of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Paul used the Tanakh to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

John 7:
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst,
let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive:
for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of
the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

43 So there was a division among the people because of him.

Luke 12:51. Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay;
but rather division.



 
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When I found that statistic it led me to think about the Law differently and to see Christian indifference to it as a mistake.

Good stuff...will use it...

also how often the OT was quoted or referenced in the book of Acts...

add to that there was no NT as we know it when Paul wrote his letters...
 
  • Useful
Reactions: HARK!
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Chapter 1
1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, a called apostle, severed for the evangel of God
2 (which He promises before through His prophets in the holy scriptures),
3 concerning His Son (Who comes of the seed of David according to the flesh,
4 Who is designated Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead),
5 Jesus Christ, our Lord, through Whom we obtained grace and apostleship for faith-obedience among all the nations, for His name's sake,
6 among whom are you also, the called of Jesus Christ:
7 to all who are in Rome, beloved by God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, indeed, I am thanking my God through Jesus Christ concerning all of you, that your faith is being announced in the whole world.
9 For God is my Witness, to Whom I am offering divine service in my spirit in the evangel of His Son, how unintermittingly I am making mention of you always in my prayers
10 beseeching, if somehow, sometime, at length I shall be prospered, in the will of God, to come to you.
11 For I am longing to see you, that I may be sharing some spiritual grace with you, for you to be established:
12 yet this is to be consoled together among you through one another's faith, both yours and mine.
13 Now I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, that often I purposed to come to you (and was prevented hitherto) that I should be having some fruit among you also, according as among the rest of the nations.
14 To both Greeks and barbarians, to both wise and foolish, a debtor am I.
15 Thus this eagerness of mine to bring the evangel to you also, who are in Rome.
16 For not ashamed am I of the evangel, for it is God's power for salvation to everyone who is believing -- to the Jew first, and to the Greek as well.
17 For in it God's righteousness is being revealed, out of faith for faith, according as it is written: "Now the just one by faith shall be living."

(CLV) Hab 2:4
Behold, it is made presumptuous: his soul is not upright in him. Yet the just one by his faith shall live.

So the next time someone tells you, "we aren't justified by works. That's Old Testament. In the New Testament we are justified by faith," you can say, "that's teaching comes from the TaNaK."


18 For God's indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men who are retaining the truth in injustice,
19 because that which is known of God is apparent among them, for God manifests it to them.
20 For His invisible attributes are descried from the creation of the world, being apprehended by His achievements, besides His imperceptible power and divinity, for them to be defenseless,

(CLV) Ps 19:1
The heavens are recounting the glory of El, And the atmosphere is telling the work of His hands.


21 because, knowing God, not as God do they glorify or thank Him, but vain were they made in their reasonings, and darkened is their unintelligent heart.
22 Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid,
23 and they change the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of a corruptible human being and flying creatures and quadrupeds and reptiles.
24 Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves,
25 those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen!
26 Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature.
27 Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be.
28 And according as they do not test God, to have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting,
29 filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers,
30 vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents,
31 unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 those who, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them.

All good...as justified by works was NOT in the OT...Heb 11 confirms it was by faith...

He remembered His covenant thus saved Israel including those NOT of Jacob...and THEN gave them the living oracles...we DOST do...still...and by faith
 
  • Like
Reactions: HARK!
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,917
1,728
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,265.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
17 For in it God's righteousness is being revealed, out of faith for faith, according as it is written: "Now the just one by faith shall be living."

(CLV) Hab 2:4
Behold, it is made presumptuous: his soul is not upright in him. Yet the just one by his faith shall live.

So the next time someone tells you, "we aren't justified by works. That's Old Testament. In the New Testament we are justified by faith," you can say, "that's teaching comes from the TaNaK."

.
Here is a more literal translation.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed OUT OF faith INTO faith: as it is written, The just shall live OUT OF faith.

Out of Faith into Faith.

What does that mean and What is this Faith in which he speaks?

Lets take a look at the Septuagint in respeak to the question of what does Out of Faith into Faith mean.

The Septuagint's translation of Hab 2:4 looks something like this.

Hab 2:4 If he keeps back, favors not my soul in him; but the just one by my belief shall live.

Here the text says, "by my belief shall live"

My Belief? Who is the my in my belief? It is the speaker, God.

So is that rendering true?

Yes! How do we know?

For one Rom 1:19. let's take a look.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest In them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

And secondly Paul answers this question even more so in chapter ten of Romans. Starting in verse six we see....

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above: )
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:THAT IS, the word of faith, which we preach;

Interestly we see here in these text above that Christ and the word are being used as synonyms. They are interchangeable due to context.

We also see the answer to the question what is this faith in which Paul speaks. It is Christ through which the word is in the heart and mouth. Out Faith (Christ's) into faith (our transformation)

Now what is even more enlightening about these text is they are a paraphrase of some text found in Deuteronomy. Paul was speaking to a mixed congregation. There were both Jew and Gentile. And presently the only Scripture they had was the Old Testament. The Jews upon reading what Paul wrote here would have recognized the wording and immediately went to the text In chapter 30 verses 10-14. And they as we find what exactly is meant by Paul when speaks of the word. Here let's take a look.


Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul). , it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deut 30:14 But the word ( his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

So we see that this Faith which is of Christ being in the heart and mouth is the word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law. As Paul wrote in Romans 1:19, "that which may be known of God is manifest In them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

NOW what is amazing is this is being spoken to Israel at the time of the giving of the Law. That the commandments and statutes written in the book of the law is nigh them, in their hearts and mouths.

Why is that amazing? Because these text are a paraphrase of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:33 and Heb 8:10.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


So out of Christ's Faith through His indwelling we Have His word,the Law, His commandments and statutes written in the book of the law in our hearts, minds and mouths. So as Romans 10:4 puts forth Christ in the heart and mouth is the end of law (on parchment and tables of stone) for righteousness unto all that believe.

Christ in us the Hope of Glory. A new Ministration, us as ministers through Him. LIVING EPISTLES through the Spirit of the living God. Not on tables of stone and of ink. But in the fleshly tables of the heart.

2Cor 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Cor 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Cor 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,917
1,728
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,265.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh
;
To fulfill the Law, the prophets and the Psalms.
So may I assume that you are saying that Jesus fulfilled the law so we do not have to
 
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,129
3,211
Prescott, Az
✟36,927.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
So may I assume that you are saying that Jesus fulfilled the law so we do not have to
The apostles taught that Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, and makes us a part of Himself, to enable us
to fulfill The Law In Him.
1 John 3:9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in Him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 
Upvote 0

clefty

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2020
512
109
55
Chattanooga
✟16,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Here is a more literal translation.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed OUT OF faith INTO faith: as it is written, The just shall live OUT OF faith.

Out of Faith into Faith.

What does that mean and What is this Faith in which he speaks?

Lets take a look at the Septuagint in respeak to the question of what does Out of Faith into Faith mean.

The Septuagint's translation of Hab 2:4 looks something like this.

Hab 2:4 If he keeps back, favors not my soul in him; but the just one by my belief shall live.

Here the text says, "by my belief shall live"

My Belief? Who is the my in my belief? It is the speaker, God.

So is that rendering true?

Yes! How do we know?

For one Rom 1:19. let's take a look.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest In them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

And secondly Paul answers this question even more so in chapter ten of Romans. Starting in verse six we see....

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above: )
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:THAT IS, the word of faith, which we preach;

Interestly we see here in these text above that Christ and the word are being used as synonyms. They are interchangeable due to context.

We also see the answer to the question what is this faith in which Paul speaks. It is Christ through which the word is in the heart and mouth. Out Faith (Christ's) into faith (our transformation)

Now what is even more enlightening about these text is they are a paraphrase of some text found in Deuteronomy. Paul was speaking to a mixed congregation. There were both Jew and Gentile. And presently the only Scripture they had was the Old Testament. The Jews upon reading what Paul wrote here would have recognized the wording and immediately went to the text In chapter 30 verses 10-14. And they as we find what exactly is meant by Paul when speaks of the word. Here let's take a look.


Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul). , it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

Deut 30:14 But the word ( his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

So we see that this Faith which is of Christ being in the heart and mouth is the word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law. As Paul wrote in Romans 1:19, "that which may be known of God is manifest In them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

NOW what is amazing is this is being spoken to Israel at the time of the giving of the Law. That the commandments and statutes written in the book of the law is nigh them, in their hearts and mouths.

Why is that amazing? Because these text are a paraphrase of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:33 and Heb 8:10.


Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


So out of Christ's Faith through His indwelling we Have His word,the Law, His commandments and statutes written in the book of the law in our hearts, minds and mouths. So as Romans 10:4 puts forth Christ in the heart and mouth is the end of law (on parchment and tables of stone) for righteousness unto all that believe.

Christ in us the Hope of Glory. A new Ministration, us as ministers through Him. LIVING EPISTLES through the Spirit of the living God. Not on tables of stone and of ink. But in the fleshly tables of the heart.

2Cor 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Cor 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Cor 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.

”Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and have the faith OF Yahushua”

Not just IN Him but OF...have His faith lifestyle...not Buddhism Islam or Hindu...or Catholic or Protestant...
 
  • Agree
Reactions: HIM
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,917
1,728
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,265.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The apostles taught that Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, and makes us a part of Himself, to enable us
to fulfill The Law In Him.
1 John 3:9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in Him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In and through Him. Amen!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. M
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,917
1,728
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,265.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
”Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and have the faith OF Yahushua”

Not just IN Him but OF...have His faith lifestyle...not Buddhism Islam or Hindu...or Catholic or Protestant...
Hi Clefty,
For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the Life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God. Gal 2:20
Amen indeed!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. M
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
The Old Testament is taught from today as well, I`ve listened to a lot of sermons that used scriptures from the OT.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

...and when Paul wrote that; the New Testament hadn't been compiled. Paul was talking about the TaNaK.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Not sure what this is really about. Well not sure what else Paul would have taught from other then the Torah , Nevi’im , and Ketuvim aka Tanakh. OT NT its all His word. I ask because you made sure to highlight the blue text.

Just wondering is this about no works, justified by faith. Lol it is me so..

I'm putting together a series, which will walk through Paul's letters; and demonstrate that he did not teach from (and I'll word this carefully; because Yahshua's words are his father's words) from the words of Yahshua, from when he walked the earth; but Paul taught from the TaNaK.

As a side note, Yahshua's teaching style relied heavily on quoting the TaNaK.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Here is a more literal translation.

The CLV (Concordant Literal Version) is a literal translation.

The Septuagint's translation of Hab 2:4 looks something like this.

Hab 2:4 If he keeps back, favors not my soul in him; but the just one by my belief shall live.

A translation of the Septuagint, is a translation of a Greek translation of the Hebrew text.

A more accurate rendering could be obtained through a better understanding of the Hebrew.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Paul was speaking to a mixed congregation. There were both Jew and Gentile.

Paul was speaking specifically to the Saints. We are reading someone else's personal mail in this letter. It wasn't addressed to all of Rome, nor even to the Ger Toshav in Rome. It was addressed to the Saints. These were kadosh men of YHWH.

7 to all who are in Rome, beloved by God, called saints
 
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
CF Ambassadors
Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
3,917
1,728
57
Alabama
Visit site
✟344,265.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The CLV is a literal translation.



A translation of the Septuagint, is a translation of a Greek translation of the Hebrew text.

A more accurate rendering could be obtained through a better understanding of the Hebrew.
Sad....why not prove the post wrong or agree with it rather than making subjective comments that have no bases?
Paul had more accurate understanding of the Ancient Text then we might ever have.
Funny he actually read and quoted the Septuagint quite often. The text in question in part as a matter of fact. Here it is again in Hebrew 10:38

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
No draw back in the Hebrew but there it is. So how did Paul come to that. Through God's Spirit through the reading of the LXX.

Hab 2:4 ABP If he keeps (draws) back, [2 favors not 1 my soul] in him; but the just one [2 by 3 my belief 1 shall live].

Keeps back and draws back is translated from the same Greek word incidentally.

Here is a list the other times he quoted the Septuagint in part or whole.

Rom. 2:24 / Isaiah 52:5 - the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles.Hebrew - blasphemed (there is no mention of the Gentiles). Rom. 3:4 / Psalm 51:4 - thou mayest "prevail" (or overcome) when thou art judged.Hebrew - thou might "be clear" when thou judges. Rom. 3:12 / Psalm 14:1,3 - they "have gone wrong."Hebrew - they are "corrupt" or "filthy." Rom. 3:13 / Psalm 5:9 - they use their tongues to deceive.Hebrew - they flatter with their tongues. There is no "deceit" language. Rom. 3:13 / Psalm 140:3 - the venom of "asps" is under their lips.Hebrew - "Adder's" poison is under their lips. Rom. 3:14 / Psalm 10:7 - whose mouth is full of curses and "bitterness."Hebrew - cursing and "deceit and oppression." Rom. 9:17 / Exodus 9:16 - my power "in you"; my name may be "proclaimed."Hebrew - show "thee"; may name might be "declared." Rom. 9:25 / Hosea 2:23 - I will call my people; I will call my beloved.Hebrew - I will have mercy (love versus mercy). Rom. 9:27 / Isaiah 10:22 - only a remnant of them "will be saved."Hebrew - only a remnant of them "will return." Rom. 9:29 / Isaiah 1:9 - had not left us "children."Hebrew - Jehova had left us a "very small remnant." Rom. 9:33; 10:11; 1 Peter 2:6 / Isaiah 28:16 - he who believes will not be "put to shame."Hebrew - shall not be "in haste." Rom. 10:18 / Psalm 19:4 - their "voice" has gone out.Hebrew - their "line" is gone out. Rom. 10:20 / Isaiah 65:1 - I have "shown myself" to those who did not ask for me.Hebrew - I am "inquired of" by them. Rom. 10:21 / Isaiah 65:2 - a "disobedient and contrary" people.Hebrew - a "rebellious" people.Rom. 11:9-10 / Psalm 69:22-23 - "pitfall" and "retribution" and "bend their backs."Hebrew - "trap" and "make their loins shake." Rom. 11:26 / Isaiah 59:20 - will banish "ungodliness."Hebrew - turn from "transgression." Rom. 11:27 / Isaiah 27:9 - when I take away their sins.Hebrew - this is all the fruit of taking away his sin. Rom. 11:34; 1 Cor. 2:16 / Isaiah 40:13 -the "mind" of the Lord; His "counselor."Hebrew - "spirit" of the Lord; "taught" Him. Rom. 12:20 / Prov. 25:21 - feed him and give him to drink.Hebrew - give him "bread" to eat and "water" to drink. Rom. 15:12 / Isaiah 11:10 - the root of Jesse..."to rule the Gentiles."Hebrew - stands for an ensign. There is nothing about the Gentiles. Rom. 15:21 / Isaiah 52:15 - been told "of him"; heard "of him."Hebrew - does not mention "him" (the object of the prophecy). 1 Cor. 1:19 / Isaiah 29:14 - "I will destroy" the wisdom of the wise.Hebrew - wisdom of their wise men "shall perish." 1 Cor. 5:13 / Deut. 17:7 - remove the "wicked person."Hebrew - purge the "evil." This is more generic evil in the MT. 1 Cor. 15:55 / Hosea 13:14 - O death, where is thy "sting?"Hebrew - O death, where are your "plagues?" 2 Cor. 4:13 / Psalm 116:10 - I believed and so I spoke (past tense).Hebrew - I believe, for I will speak (future tense). 2 Cor. 6:2 / Isaiah 49:8 - I have "listened" to you.Hebrew - I have "answered" you. Gal. 3:10 / Deut. 27:26 - cursed be every one who does not "abide" by all things.Hebrew - does not "confirm" the words. Gal. 3:13 / Deut. 21:23 - cursed is everyone who hangs on a "tree."Hebrew - a hanged man is accursed. The word "tree" does not follow. Gal. 4:27 / Isaiah 54:1 - "rejoice" and "break forth and shout."Hebrew - "sing" and "break forth into singing." 2 Tim. 2:19 / Num. 16:5 - The Lord "knows" those who are His.Hebrew - God will "show" who are His. Heb. 1:6 / Deut. 32:43 - let all the angels of God worship Him.Hebrew - the Masoretic text omits this phrase from Deut. 32:43. Heb. 1:12 / Psalm 102:25 - like a "mantle" ... "roll them"... "will be changed."Hebrew - "raiment"... "change"..."pass away." Heb. 2:7 / Psalm 8:5 - thou has made Him a little "lower than angels."Hebrew - made Him but a little "lower than God." Heb. 2:12 / Psalm 22:22 - I will " sing" thy praise.Hebrew - I will praise thee. The LXX and most NTs (but not the RSV) have "sing." Heb. 2:13 / Isaiah 8:17 - I will "put my trust in Him."Hebrew - I will "look for Him." Heb. 3:15 / Psalm 95:8 - do not harden your hearts as "in the rebellion."Hebrew - harden not your hearts "as at Meribah." Heb. 3:15; 4:7 / Psalm 95:7 - when you hear His voice do not harden not your hearts.Hebrew - oh that you would hear His voice! Heb. 8:9-10 / Jer. 31:32-33 - (nothing about husband); laws into their mind.Hebrew - I was a husband; law in their inward parts. Heb. 9:28 / Isaiah 10:22 - "to save those" who are eagerly awaiting for Him.Hebrew - a remnant of them "shall return." Heb. 10:5 / Psalm 40:6 - "but a body hast thou prepared for me."Hebrew - "mine ears hast thou opened." Heb. 10:38 / Hab. 2:3-4 - if he shrinks (or draws) back, my soul shall have no pleasure.Hebrew - his soul is puffed up, not upright. Heb. 11:5 / Gen. 5:24 - Enoch was not "found."Hebrew - Enoch was "not." Heb. 11:21 / Gen. 47:31 - Israel, bowing "over the head of his staff."Hebrew - there is nothing about bowing over the head of his staff. Heb. 12:6 / Prov. 3:12 - He chastises every son whom He receives.Hebrew - even as a father the son in whom he delights. Heb. 13:6 / Psalm 118:6 - the Lord "is my helper."Hebrew - Jehova "is on my side." The LXX and the NT are identical.


Pretty cool huh? Since I did not compile that list The above info is a link also to the author. In it you will find the Gospel writers, Peter and James also had a tendency to quote the Sept in part or whole also.

Once again I find that it should be said you need to go back and re-read the post you responded to here. And the last we spoke also. This time maybe with no preconceived notions or ideas.

The greatest thing I ever learned in my Spiritual walk was I did not know a thing; then I could learn. Many teach, only one Teacher let's come to Him and be taught.
 
Upvote 0

KurtHectic

Member
Jul 7, 2020
7
6
43
Chicago
✟8,567.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
The Tanak still applies though according to Jesus Christ.

Also, the question of justification is not an important one since we are justified by birth even before faith, but faith continues that justification, and works are needed to maintain faith. Those who don’t do works have no faith period and are liars, so if they tell you that you are justified by faith alone, they are misinterpreting the Bible, which only mentions that for the sake of people who think they are justified by works apart from faith in God. You are not justified by works alone either. You need both works and faith, but works must be done only out of faith in God, not just to boast about personal strength. That’s what justified by faith alone in the Bible truly means. Don’t let people abuse that meaning to deceive you into complacency and laziness. Those people lose their faith and are dumped in hell just like bad weeds are dumped in the fire as Jesus Christ alluded to.

Godspeed
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Here is a more literal translation.

Sad....why not prove the post wrong or agree with it rather than making subjective comments that have no bases?

I repeat: The CLV (Concordant Literal Version) is a literal translation.

You have not proven that your translation is more literal.

Now I would ask that we stay on topic.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
The Tanak still applies though according to Jesus Christ.

Indeed.

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness (keeping the law) should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.
 
Upvote 0