Covenant and New Covenant theology

[mkgal1]

So my statement

"Jesus of the Bible is clear that HIS People are to wait, with Patience, for a Prophesied event which has yet to be fulfilled."

Is not based on the words of Calvin or Pink or some "other voice" or famous religious philosopher. My statement was based on the Word's which claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit of Christ Himself, as you can read for yourself.

Sadly, it is highly doubtful you will be moved or affected by these Scriptures in the least. For much of modern religious philosophy to survive, God's entire Law and Prophets has to be gone, has to be obsolete. For this popular religious philosophy to continue, men must promote the doctrine that "ALL" has already been fulfilled on Calvary. Then religious man can use Matt. 5 as support for rejecting God's definition of righteousness, and go about creating their own

I never posted that "God's entire Law and prophets have to be gone". Remember what Jesus said:

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.​

.....if the Old Testament Scriptures are reduced to commandments to be kept by humanity......that misses the point that the purpose of those ancient words were to point to Christ all along.

 

[Studyman]

I never posted that "God's entire Law and prophets have to be gone". Remember what Jesus said:

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.​

.....if the Old Testament Scriptures are reduced to commandments to be kept by humanity......that misses the point that the purpose of those ancient words were to point to Christ all along.

You asked for Scriptures to support my belief that the Christ of the Bible's people are "waiting" for Prophesied events promised by the Christ which have yet to be fulfilled.

I posted these Scriptures, and you have ignored them.

I don't agree with your assertion that God Created Commandments, for the purpose of being rejected by humanity. And isn't Jesus the High Priest who we must ask for atonement? And atonement from what? Are we not to ask atonement for our transgressions? Transgressions of what? Catholic doctrine? Jewish "commandments of men"? Or are we to ask forgiveness because we Transgressed God's Commandments, created by the God of the Bible (Christ) for HIS People to walk in.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And where would we find these "good works", that the Christ of the Bible "before ordained" that we should walk in them, even all these years after Jesus ascended?

Shall we go to a JW church to find them? SDA? LDS? AOG? Baptist preachers? "Many" believe just that.

What I am saying is we should study the scriptures ourselves, and Let the Word's of God contained therein guide our footsteps as Paul teaches, even if others don't believe in them.

 

[mkgal1]

You asked for Scriptures to support my belief that the Christ of the Bible's people are "waiting" for Prophesied events promised by the Christ which have yet to be fulfilled.

I posted these Scriptures, and you have ignored them.

To be fair, Studyman, you make multiple assertions in one post at a time....and I post what I can when I can, in response.

I've not ignored your other point....I simply haven't gotten to it yet.

 

[mkgal1]

So my statement

"Jesus of the Bible is clear that HIS People are to wait, with Patience, for a Prophesied event which has yet to be fulfilled."

Is not based on the words of Calvin or Pink or some "other voice" or famous religious philosopher. My statement was based on the Word's which claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit of Christ Himself, as you can read for yourself.

That is still an interpretation.

Jesus Himself said this and gave a timeline for those living in the New Testament time:

Matthew 24:34
Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
​

.....the New Testament church was waiting (that's true)...but they are not still waiting. There was basically a struggle occurring for the representation of the Kingdom of God. The chief priests of Jesus's day were trying to retain it.....Jesus had warned them it was going to be taken from them (and was in 70 AD).

Matthew 21:43-45
Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed. When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them​

 

[mkgal1]

I don't agree with your assertion that God Created Commandments, for the purpose of being rejected by humanity

I've never made that claim......that's an imaginative strawman. I think our beliefs are too vast to have a productive discussion.

 

[Studyman]

But Jesus Himself said this and gave a timeline for those living in the New Testament time:

Matthew 24:34
Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
​

.....the New Testament church was waiting (that's true)...but they are not still waiting.

That is a good question.

No, they are not still waiting and watching, their journey is over. They are dead, those who "endured" until the end shall be saved when Jesus returns to raise them from the dead.

2 Cor. 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Think about what you are implying here. If this "Generation" is the only generation to experience the salvation Jesus and the Apostles taught, then who are we to follow and believe? Is there still not wars and rumors of wars? Are there still not false preachers? In my understanding Jesus is speaking to the generation under the New Covenant. If HE isn't, if the NT is only written for those alive when Jesus walked the earth, then why are we even reading the Holy Scriptures?

There was basically a struggle occurring for the representation of the Kingdom of God. The chief priests of Jesus's day were trying to retain it.....Jesus had warned them it was going to be taken from them (and was in 70 AD).

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.​

Yes, the struggle between the old Covenant Priesthood and the New Covenant Priesthood was the battle of Jesus and Paul's time.

But your teaching that Jesus took it away from them is 70 AD is simply not true. Jews were still promoting the Levitical Priesthood in the 1900's, the same as they did in Jesus time. Jesus took the Priesthood away from them the day John the Baptist baptized HIM.

There are a lot of scholars who would have seen the coming of the Christ and subsequent reign if all these things Jesus said came about in 70 AD. But even the Jew Josephus never seen the Lord coming

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Paul said;

1 cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Are we all not part of the Generation upon whom the ends of the world are come?

If the Gospel is only written for the generation of people walking the earth when Jesus walked the earth, then why repent at all?

 

[mkgal1]

Think about what you are implying here. If this "Generation" is the only generation to experience the salvation Jesus and the Apostles taught, then who are we to follow and believe?

That's not what I'm implying...and this sort of disconnect is why I am going to back away from this unproductive conversation. It seems to only be stirring up confusion. I may just limit my part to "I didn't post that or imply that".

 

[mkgal1]

If the Gospel is only written for the generation of people walking the earth when Jesus walked the earth, then why repent at all?

That's not what Jesus said about "this generation" (there's nothing there about the gospel being written for one generation). Jesus said:

Matthew 24:34
Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.​

 

[Studyman]

I've never made that claim......that's an imaginative strawman. I think our beliefs are too vast to have a productive discussion.

".....if the Old Testament Scriptures are reduced to commandments to be kept by humanity......that misses the point that the purpose of those ancient words were to point to Christ all along."

It is my understanding that the reason Jesus had to be tortured and killed is because humanity didn't consider God's Commandments were written to be kept by them.

I too, once considered His Commandments to be just words on a piece of paper to be discarded in favor of popular religions and religious traditions.

But no longer. Jesus didn't offer Himself to God to pay for my lack of honor, belief and respect for Him, just so that I could continue to consider His Commandments as written to be discarded once HE paid my debt. I owe Him my life, HE purchased me with HIS own Blood.

Isn't this the whole point?

Maybe you are right, maybe were are too far apart in belief to examine the Holy scriptures in any effective way.

 

[Studyman]

That's not what Jesus said about "this generation" (there's nothing there about the gospel being written for one generation). Jesus said:

Matthew 24:34
Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.​

Matt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So I'm am not sure what you are preaching here. The Priesthood you say was taken away in this generation, but not all the other things Jesus spoke of?

 

[Douggg]

Yes, so as I said, what he did not expect was that the Cross provided a way for all the gentile nations to be reconciled with God, thru the fall of Israel.

Satan would not have sought to kill Jesus if he realized that Jesus's death and resurrection would free man from judgment due to man's sin. God in equal fairness, following Jesus death and resurrection, can carry out destruction of Satan, while sparing man equal judgment by the propitiation of sins by what Jesus did.

Man's fall to sin in the garden was essentially a insurance policy Satan devised, thinking he would not destroyed for his sin and rebellion against God because it would mean God would have to destroy all of mankind as well.

But God took away Satan's insurance policy, and used Satan's own thinking he was being cleaver to have the messiah killed to boot.
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The idea of taking hostages to keep God from executing judgement will again be the strategy when the nations assemble to make war of Jesus, who will be returning to execute vengeance for the tribulation saints having been martyred.

In Zechariah 14, half the city goes into captivity - i.e. hostages. And the rest not cutoff from the city - which either means they are held hostages as well but within the city. Or that they are not taken as hostages.

Their hostage plan though is not going to work for certain.

When a person gets into reading the second half of the seven years in Revelation, it is mostly about the destruction of Satan's mystical kingdom called Babylon the Great. Satan when he took part in having Jesus killed did so with the motivation to preserve his own kingdom, from being replaced by the Kingdom of God.

My chart below showing the final end to Satan's kingdom based on Ezekiel 28:16-19 of Satan being cast down to earth, and fire coming up in his midst, turning to ashes, brought into plain sight to behold him, before everyone who will have worshiped the statue image of the beast during the second half of the 7 years.

 

[Guojing]

Satan would not have sought to kill Jesus if he realized that Jesus's death and resurrection would free man from judgment due to man's sin. God in equal fairness, following Jesus death and resurrection, can carry out destruction of Satan, while sparing man equal judgment by the propitiation of sins by what Jesus did.

Man's fall to sin in the garden was essentially a insurance policy Satan devised, thinking he would not destroyed for his sin and rebellion against God because it would mean God would have to destroy all of mankind as well.

But God took away Satan's insurance policy, and used Satan's own thinking he was being cleaver to have the messiah killed to boot.
__________________________________________________________

The idea of taking hostages to keep God from executing judgement will again be the strategy when the nations assemble to make war of Jesus, who will be returning to execute vengeance for the tribulation saints having been martyred.

In Zechariah 14, half the city goes into captivity - i.e. hostages. And the rest not cutoff from the city - which either means they are held hostages as well but within the city. Or that they are not taken as hostages.

Their hostage plan though is not going to work for certain.

When a person gets into reading the second half of the seven years in Revelation, it is mostly about the destruction of Satan's mystical kingdom called Babylon the Great. Satan when he took part in having Jesus killed did so with the motivation to preserve his own kingdom, from being replaced by the Kingdom of God.

My chart below showing the final end to Satan's kingdom based on Ezekiel 28:16-19 of Satan being cast down to earth, and fire coming up in his midst, turning to ashes, brought into plain sight to behold him, before everyone who will have worshiped the statue image of the beast during the second half of the 7 years.



View attachment 285221

Alright then, we have different views on this as expected.

 

[Douggg]

Alright then, we have different views on this as expected.

To me, not a problem with disagreement. Nobody called the other person names, nor made any disparaging remarks.

 

[eclipsenow]

I view my discussions with you as me presenting Bible truths to just another person with set beliefs that I have no hope of changing.

I know this to be incorrect as internet forums have changed my mind on many topics - even changed how I vote!

But they have to be good reasons for me to change my mind - and Keras has based his end-times table on Jesus travel plans to get back to Jerusalem! He also wants me to accept that this time he really truly-wuly has it figured out - but last time he was convinced by the 2012 predictions. Why that whole mistake didn't make him give up Futurism and convert to Amil I don't know. But, Jesus said it was going to take a few days to get back to Jerusalem - so you know what that means? Yeah, amazing stuff! It was going to take a few days to get back to Jerusalem. Let's draw a whole end-times-table and start a cult based on that! Not that I'm saying Keras himself isn't a Christian or wants to start a cult! I'm just pointing out that so many end times predictions end up getting really sidetracked from the gospel, and some even become cults, and out of those some even get deadly.

Now the only job left is to name it? The Jonestown Texas Waco Branch of Moonies? Futurist readings of Revelation have just brought so much joy to the world. I guess there are plenty of false prophets we could name it after - the wiki of failed predictions is certainly long enough! Was it Jack's predictions that got you in Keras?
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2012 Jack Van Impe Televangelist who has, over the years, predicted many specific years and dates for the Second Coming of Jesus, but has continued to move his prediction later. Many of these dates have already passed, and he recently pointed to 2012 as a possible date for the second coming. Van Impe no longer claims to know the exact date of the Second Coming, but quotes verses which imply that mankind should know when the Second Coming is near.
Predictions and claims for the Second Coming of Christ - Wikipedia