Covenant and New Covenant theology

[BABerean2]

Peter was clearly not preaching the same gospel as Paul gave to us in the Body of Christ.

The Two Gospels claim above is one of the greatest errors of modern Dispensational Theology.
Do you believe Galatians 1:6-9 cannot apply to you?


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[mkgal1]

I already stated to you plainly what Peter taught Israel in 1 Peter 4. I do understand why you are not willing to address it because it makes for uncomfortable reading.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The judgment coming was to Old Covenant apostate Israel that occurred in 70 AD. That's not a different Gospel - it's a different covenant. ​

Is that what you are believing now, that you are not even sure of your own salvation? That you are expecting judgement to fall on you in the age to come?

"The age to come" came in 70 AD. Peter was writing in the transition. ​

Image from Adam Maarschalk's blog​

 

[mkgal1]

But Christ is not the "King" of the Body of Christ. Paul never taught us that.

Colossians 1:13 ~
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son​

Obviously I don't subscribe to that, since I kept emphasizing that the Body of Christ has a separate destiny, from the nation Israel, and that God still has a plan for the nation Israel.

Daniel 7:14 ~
And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.​

 

[jgr]

I quoted the verses about how God regarded the nation Israel

I've read Exodus 4 and Jeremiah 31.

Nowhere does God enter into covenant with unfaithful disobedient unbelievers.

Did you read Deuteronomy 28:15-68?

What does it tell you about how God regarded Israel?

Why do you refuse to recognize the difference between the faithful obedient believers, and the unfaithful disobedient unbelievers; of Israel?

 

[BABerean2]

The judgment coming was to Old Covenant apostate Israel that occurred in 70 AD. That's not a different Gospel - it's a different covenant. ​

"The age to come" came in 70 AD. Peter was writing in the transition. ​

View attachment 284622

Image from Adam Maarschalk's blog​

If there was a 40 year period when both covenants were in effect in the eyes of God, how do you explain the following passages?
How many people came to salvation through the Old Covenant during that time?


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.


Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM," (Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.


Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."
Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


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[mkgal1]

If there was a 40 year period when both covenants were in effect in the eyes of God, how do you explain the following passages?
How many people came to salvation through the Old Covenant during that time?

That's probably a topic for another thread. Let me know if you want to start a new thread or want me to.

 

[keras]

Thank you for representing dispensationalism in this thread. I think it's been well demonstrated that the hard line dispensationalists will not cross is unity between the faithful remnant of the Israelites and the Gentiles (Ephesians 2:14).....or, in their typical words, the Body of Christ and Israel are separate and there are two plans for salvation. This is all stated and defended against Scriptural evidence that refutes these beliefs. I'm not certain if it's typical dispensationalism to believe that Paul taught a different Gospel from Peter....but that's what's been represented in this thread to further the idea of separation between Israel and the Church.

Well said!
We who oppose the Two Peoples, Two Promises theory, do have scriptural proofs on our side as well as logic and facts such as; the current apostate condition of the State of Israel and their continued rejection of Jesus.
But people like guojing and all who adulate Jewish Israel, cannot be moved from their stance, because they are locked into it as Isaiah 29:9-12 tells us will happen.
The sad thing is they hate us for opposing a Jewish Redemption, but we don't oppose the salvation of anyone, we just point out what God intends to do to ALL the ungodly and Jesus hating peoples.

 

[mkgal1]

The sad thing is they hate us for opposing a Jewish Redemption, but we don't oppose the salvation of anyone,

Exactly. Our theology can't be called "replacement" because no one is being replaced. However.....dispensationalism replaces the faithful remnant (and Jesus, as the seed of Abraham) with a modern and man-formed geopolitical entity and steals away what God had fulfilled in the first century.

 

[mkgal1]

Well said!

....and thank you.

 

[Guojing]

I've read Exodus 4 and Jeremiah 31.

Nowhere does God enter into covenant with unfaithful disobedient unbelievers.

Did you read Deuteronomy 28:15-68?

What does it tell you about how God regarded Israel?

Why do you refuse to recognize the difference between the faithful obedient believers, and the unfaithful disobedient unbelievers; of Israel?

I may be wasting my time here but let me give it one last attempt.

What does Israel is my son meant to you in exodus 4:22?

Remember The law has not been given yet so you cannot use the convenient excuse that it only refers to faithful and obedient Jews from israel

 

[Guojing]

The Two Gospels claim above is one of the greatest errors of modern Dispensational Theology.
Do you believe Galatians 1:6-9 cannot apply to you?


.

Why don’t you read 1 Peter 4:17-18 first?

 

[Guojing]

The judgment coming was to Old Covenant apostate Israel that occurred in 70 AD. That's not a different Gospel - it's a different covenant. ​

"The age to come" came in 70 AD. Peter was writing in the transition. ​

View attachment 284622

Image from Adam Maarschalk's blog​

Are you agreeing with me now that Peter was not writing to the body of Christ?

so are you sure you are saved now? Are you expecting judgment to come to you in the future?

 

[keras]

I may be wasting my time here but let me give it one last attempt.

By promoting a general Jewish redemption, you are more that wasting your time, you are preaching against plainly given scriptures.
I can provide 20 prophesies, that describe the Lord's plans for them.
They all tell about the virtual demise of Judah, a people who, by the grace of God; have had nearly 2000 years to get right with God, but have not and never will.

Understand this; the Israelites of God are the people who have overcome evil for God. As Jacob did.
Ethnicity plays no part in who is a true Israelite. Ephesians 2:11-15

 

[Guojing]

By promoting a general Jewish redemption, you are more that wasting your time, you are preaching against plainly given scriptures.
I can provide 20 prophesies, that describe the Lord's plans for them.
They all tell about the virtual demise of Judah, a people who, by the grace of God; have had nearly 2000 years to get right with God, but have not and never will.

Understand this; the Israelites of God are the people who have overcome evil for God. As Jacob did.
Ethnicity plays no part in who is a true Israelite. Ephesians 2:11-15

I asked about Exodus 4:22, what do you understand from that verse.

You want to address that first? It is a "plainly given scripture", as you claimed

 

[Guojing]

[

 

[mkgal1]

Are you agreeing with me now that Peter was not writing to the body of Christ?

No....I'm not in agreement with you.

 

[mkgal1]

None of those scriptures you quoted addressed the points I raised.

Colossians, for example, does not say anything about Christ being our King.

Kingdoms need a king. If there's a kingdom - there's a king.

We're going in circles. You've done a great job demonstrating the dispensational theology and how it varies from progressive covenantalism (my beliefs).

 

[jgr]

I may be wasting my time here but let me give it one last attempt.

What does Israel is my son meant to you in exodus 4:22?

Remember The law has not been given yet so you cannot use the convenient excuse that it only refers to faithful and obedient Jews from israel

What do the corpses of thousands of unbelieving unfaithful disobedient Israelite sons mean to you?

 

[Guojing]

What do the corpses of thousands of unbelieving unfaithful disobedient Israelite sons mean to you?

I take it as you are declining to answer my question?

 

[Guojing]

No....I'm not in agreement with you.

So you are not sure of Your salvation now and you expect judgment to come to you too?