What can Orthodox Christians do during the peaceful riots plaguing our cities?

Justin-H.S.

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Although, the above photo is from an Orthodox country, I wonder if we can do something more here to bring peace back to our cities, or at least try.

We do have a presence at the March For Life, but shouldn’t Americans know us more for our intercessions and peace-making than for our Greek Festivals?
 

Justin-H.S.

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Are our intercessions for the ears of God or the eyes of man?

It’s for the same reason we go to March for Life. I suppose some will do for one while some do for the other, but that’s for God to judge the heart.
 
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Hermit76

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It’s for the same reason we go to March for Life. I suppose some will do for one while some do for the other, but that’s for God to judge the heart.
And yet we still have abortion. Pearls and swine, pearls and swine
 
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gzt

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One thing that was done in Ukraine and can be done here with sufficient numbers is to come out in force to get between the police and radical conservative armed militia groups (on one side) and the protestors (on the other) as a peaceful buffer. However it seems in recent experience it's the clergy that need protection from the former in these kinds of protests (cf: Charlottesville, DC).
 
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Justin-H.S.

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It's interesting to see how similiar the extremists in Ukraine are to the left-wing rioters here in America.

I admit I don’t know much about the Ukraine riots to know who did what, but it sure would be nice to see Orthodox clergy trying to maintain peace between the battle lines like they do in Ukraine.
 
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I think the tide is slowly turning against abortion. Praise be to God.

I'm not so certain. I think we've just gotten enough push to provoke a spirit and there will be lashing out.

And furthermore, Most girls are on contraception before they are even mature enough to give question to it - and suffer the physical effects of it. How much is just a shift to a 'less brutal' sterilization?

Like the situation in Japan, abortions are down, but that's because nobody is having sex anymore there (but certainly not out of a spirit of virginity/celibacy...)

The entire socio-sexual dynamic across the world has been greatly damaged. I find myself dismayed that a marriage is still possible - even within the scope of the Orthodox Church.

I sometimes wonder - is there only carnage? I shudder.
 
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Hermit76

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Screenshot_20200828-154540_Chrome.jpg

Don't let the numbers fool you. As a procedure abortion is down partially because of abortive drugs and a culture that is open about their sexual "freedom." A culture that is open uses more birth control. Attitudes are not changing.
 
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rusmeister

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Yes, right down to the police-aligned right wing paramilitary groups murdering them.
The essential problem is that when police shoot anybody, there are two possible threads that you seem unwilling or unable to tangle. Either a police shooting is justified or it is not. If it is, what are you complaining about? A person commits a crime, resists arrests, refuses to obey police orders, goes back to his car and reaches into it and gets shot. Is that murder? Obviously not; it is a justified shooting, regardless of the color of anyone’s skin. If I did that, I would deserve to get shot, and it wouldn’t matter if the officer shooting me were black.

When it is not, when it is apparent or obvious unjustified force, manslaughter or murder, we agree, and call for justice ourselves. Again, what are you complaining about? Everybody is on your side. Even in that situation, there will on occasion be miscarriages of justice; either angry citizens will misinterpret a video and hang an innocent man, so to speak, or a wicked officer will successfully conceal his crime and we know nothing of it. You will never achieve a utopia where that never happens in this Fallen world. But the thing is, it appears that there are a number of cases that you think unjustified that we think there is more doubt about. We do not agree that in every case the poster boys chosen by BLM for a focus of rage were in fact innocent victims. We think that some of them were quite guilty and the use of force justified, or at least that there is a good deal more doubt in the case.

Again, when it is clear that injustice truly happened, we stand with you in opposing it and seeking justice. However, it is that unwillingness to admit that some shootings are justified that makes your case appear unacceptable and deserving of dismissal and ignoring, and effective approval of the conduct of riots and unreasonable disruption of civil life and calling it and them “peaceful” when the instigators start fires, scream in people’s faces, beat them, break windows, etc, is despicable. That the organizers are well-funded and that all of this serves a political purpose ought to make one uneasy and unwilling to be used as a political pawn, and that includes not only the people causing the disruption and riots, but those apologizing for them, in the sad sense of making excuse rather than condemning.
 
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tapi

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Only in America , and perhaps in Nigeria, could the shooting be seen as justified. The person could have been subdued by any variety of non-lethal means: he was literally within an arms reach and could have easily been apprehended physically, tased, OCd, shot in the leg, etc. Instead, the officer acted with true intent to kill and shot him at point blank range not once or twice but seven times. The mindset that by failing to comply with police orders one has chosen death is rather primitive and is found mostly in developing countries and, unfortunately, in the States. Thankfully this is changing.
 
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Arc F1

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Only in America and, perhaps in Nigeria could the shooting be seen as justified. The person could have been subduef by a variety of means, he was literally within an arms reach and could have been apprehended, tased, OCd, shot in the leg, etc etc. The mindset that buy failing to comply with police orders one has chosen death is raati primitive

I'm pretty sure it was reaching in the car like that was the reason for being shot.
 
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Hermit76

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Only in America , and perhaps in Nigeria, could the shooting be seen as justified. The person could have been subdued by any variety of non-lethal means: he was literally within an arms reach and could have easily been apprehended physically, tased, OCd, shot in the leg, etc. Instead, the officer acted with true intent to kill and shot him at point blank range not once or twice but seven times. The mindset that by failing to comply with police orders one has chosen death is rather primitive and is found mostly in developing countries and, unfortunately, in the States. Thankfully this is changing.
BJ Baldwin and his girlfriend was attacked by two armed men in Las Vegas. In addition to being a professional racer he is also a well trained shooter. His assailant only stopped returning fire when BJ hit him with a 10th round. In all my training we are told that if you shoot it is for one purpose... to eliminate the threat. I have no trouble with 7 shots because of this reason. When I was a pastor one of my police parishioners had a gun pulled on him. They were as close as these two were to each other. He pulled his firearm and shot until the threat was eliminated. Police shootings are rare here. However, a few months before this happened with my parishioner I watched the funeral procession of a police officer who was shot in the head by a sniper that they had surrounded just a few miles from my house. You don't shoot a threat in the leg. That will get you killed.
Regarding this being primitive... baloney. We are one point in history. It is a chaotic point in history. Without law and order it will continue to delve into darkness. We are human and humanity is not prone to inherent goodness. There's a reason that God's interaction with man has been surrounded by laws. We need external order for societal peace. The real issue isn't the cops, laws, or even individual conflicts. It is the historical tendency for man to delve into the lowest regions of darkness. This isn't a black vs white issue. Come to Appalachia. We have the same conflict in our predominantly white communities. Until we have dialogue about this we are not going to get anywhere.
 
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tapi

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There wasn't even a gun in the car. The situation would of course be different had he brandished a weapon and been a real threat. There is no way the exact same scenario would have ended up in a nearly fatal shooting in any other civilized country.

The attitude portrayed in your post is peculiar to the USA. There are not even a 1/50th of the number of killings by law enforcement officers in proportion to census in any other Western country in comparison to the States (for example in Canada annually ~20, USA ~1000, Germany a sum total of 491 in the last 70 years), yet they are non the worse in regard to safety. The situation in the USA is truly sad. While there are, of course, circumstances in which potentially lethal force is legitimately required, this one was not one of them, and in general much blame rests on the police themselves. The numbers also highlight the huge issues caused by nearly everyone being entitled to own a gun.
 
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rusmeister

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Only in America , and perhaps in Nigeria, could the shooting be seen as justified. The person could have been subdued by any variety of non-lethal means: he was literally within an arms reach and could have easily been apprehended physically, tased, OCd, shot in the leg, etc. Instead, the officer acted with true intent to kill and shot him at point blank range not once or twice but seven times. The mindset that by failing to comply with police orders one has chosen death is rather primitive and is found mostly in developing countries and, unfortunately, in the States. Thankfully this is changing.

This mindset is alien to me. If one does not comply with police orders, then the policing is in vain. Police can only serve their purpose if the citizenry generally complies. A refusal to comply is to oppose the rule of law, which is anarchy.

“It is vain to rule if your subjects can and so disobey you. It is vain to vote if your delegates can and do disobey you.” (GKC)

That said, if armed men tell you to stop and you don’t stop, any person with common sense ought to realize that the armed men may shoot you, rightly or wrongly, especially if their guns are drawn. It doesn’t matter whether or not guns were found in the car. At the moment of the shooting, the officers couldn’t have known that. But people with common sense realize that if the armed men are pointing guns, and the man they are pointing them at is not complying, he is liable to get shot if he does anything that could be remotely construed as potential resistance, as that is the most rational reason for non-compliance. Even I know that if police approach my car, I keep my hands in plain sight. I don’t reach into my glove compartment without permission. I know that these guys face potential real criminals who sometimes kill some of their number.
I live in Russia, not America or Nigeria, by the way. It’s not primitive, except in the sense of being primary, of being common sense. Resistance and non-compliance is an act, not of civilization and peace, but of hostility and conflict. A person who doesn’t see that lacks common sense.
 
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Hermit76

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There wasn't even a gun in the car. The situation would of course be different had he brandished a weapon and been a real threat. There is no way the exact same scenario would have ended up in a nearly fatal shooting in any other civilized country.

The attitude portrayed in your post is peculiar to the USA. There are not even a 1/50th of the number of killings by law enforcement officers in proportion to census in any other Western country in comparison to the States (for example in Canada annually ~20, USA ~1000, Germany a sum total of 491 in the last 70 years), yet they are non the worse in regard to safety. The situation in the USA is truly sad. While there are, of course, circumstances in which potentially lethal force is legitimately required, this one was not one of them, and in general much blame rests on the police themselves. The numbers also highlight the huge issues caused by nearly everyone being entitled to own a gun.
"You going for a gun bro? No? Ok! I'll just believe you since you're fighting the police and have warrants out on you for violence."
 
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