Jackson County, North Carolina, Leaders Vote to Keep Confederate Statue in Sylva — With Changes

How do you view the leaders' choice to keep the Confederate statues, but remove the inscriptions?

  • It goes too far

  • It isn't enough

  • It's just right


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Lord Vega

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From the article:

Jackson County commissioners voted Tuesday to keep a Confederate statue in front of the historic courthouse in Sylva, but they also agreed to some changes. That decision is getting plenty of reaction.

{snip}

In an era of racial tension, the Confederate statue known as “Sylva Sam” overlooking the town is sparking debate. Sylva leaders sent Jackson County commissioners a resolution asking for its removal from the old county courthouse, out of town limits.

“I made a motion that we deny Sylva’s request,” Commission Chairman Brian McMahan said.

McMahan was part of a 4-1 vote Tuesday night to keep the statue where it is. But he said the board also agreed to an amendment.

“We are going to add a plaque to the front of the statue base covering up the Confederate flag with a list of Jackson County’s involvement in the Civil War,” he said. “Our ‘Heroes of the Confederacy’ will be removed from the base.”

McMahan said it’s a compromise.

{snip}

The president of the local NAACP said he would have preferred the statue’s removal. But, he said, he sees the compromise, too, reworking the statue’s context. He said questions will remain.

{snip}

Original article: Jackson County leaders vote to keep Confederate statue in Sylva -- with changes
 

tulc

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I'd suggest if they keep it maybe they could have a more accurate plaque mounted on it? Something like "Betrayed his country and fought and killed fellow Americans all so they could continue to own slaves."
tulc(does kind of appreciate how modern Republicans fight so hard to protect the statues of old dead racist Democrats...)
 
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Lord Vega

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I'd suggest if they keep it maybe they could have a more accurate plaque mounted on it? Something like "Betrayed his country and fought and killed fellow Americans all so they could continue to own slaves." :wave:
tulc(does kind of appreciate how modern Republicans fight so hard to protect the statues of old dead racist Democrats...) :sorry:

Wanting to conserve Confederate monuments isn't about supporting the institution of slavery or racism; it's about protecting Southern heritage.
 
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Arcangl86

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Wanting to conserve Confederate monuments isn't about supporting the institution of slavery or racism; it's about protecting Southern heritage.
The Confederacy existed for 5 years. Parts of the South have been settled for over 400 years. Yet it's always the Confederacy that is held up as representing Southern heritage. Why? And I mean that sincerely. If it's about heritage, why highlight a failed revolt? Is that really the thing the South should be identified with?
 
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tulc

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Wanting to conserve Confederate monuments isn't about supporting the institution of slavery or racism; it's about protecting Southern heritage.
You do understand: slavery IS what southern heritage (as conveyed by those statues) is about, right? If it wasn't they wouldn't need to have all those statues of traitors who fought to keep slaves all over the place.
tulc(kind of thought that part didn't need to be explained)
 
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Lord Vega

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The Confederacy existed for 5 years. Parts of the South have been settled for over 400 years. Yet it's always the Confederacy that is held up as representing Southern heritage. Why? And I mean that sincerely. If it's about heritage, why highlight a failed revolt? Is that really the thing the South should be identified with?

I stand corrected. Touché.
 
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tulc

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It's also about preserving history. Let's not forget it, lest we repeat it.
...Yeah, because if people didn't have all those heroic statues of "heroic Civil War guys" all around, they might not remember how wonderful it was for them to own slaves. Or, and I'm just putting a thought out here, they might have to read a history book or two?
tulc(just a thought)
 
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Lord Vega

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You do understand: slavery IS what southern heritage (as conveyed by those statues) is about, right? If it wasn't they wouldn't need to have all those statues of traitors who fought to keep slaves all over the place. :wave:
tulc(kind of thought that part didn't need to be explained) :sorry:

Why do you believe slavery is the sole defining aspect of Southern heritage? That's what it sounds like you're implying.
 
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tulc

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Okay, you want an actual monument that (I think) conveys actual southern history? Check out this one:
boll_weevil_monument_in_downtown_enterprise_alabama_lccn2010638569tif.jpg

Why an Alabama Town Has a Monument Honoring the Most Destructive Pest in American History | History | Smithsonian Magazine
A statue of a Greek woman stands proud in the center of Enterprise, Alabama. Its white marble arms stretch high above its head. Braced in the beautiful woman’s hands is a round bowl, atop which is perched … an enormous bug. It’s a boll weevil, to be precise—about 50 pounds in statue form, but normally smaller than a pinkie fingernail.
tulc(might also point out according to the plaque, this county has the best name of any county in the USA EVER)
 
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Lord Vega

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tulc

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Why do you believe slavery is the sole defining aspect of Southern heritage? That's what it sounds like you're implying.
Because if it wasn't why are all the statues people are fighting to keep about people who fought to keep slavery legal?
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)
 
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tulc

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Are you suggesting that southern folks are pests or vermin who need to be exterminated? Not cool.
Didn't read the article did you?
tulc(that's why he posted the link because it explains the statue)
 
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tulc

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How long until those are burned?
Why would anyone bother burning them if no one seems to have any interest in reading them? Apparently, all that's needed are some statues dedicated to the "GLORIOUS MEMORY OF WHEN WE WERE ALLOWED TO OWN SLAVES!!" to teach history/southern culture.
tulc(is going to need more coffee soon)
 
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Albion

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From the article:

Jackson County commissioners voted Tuesday to keep a Confederate statue in front of the historic courthouse in Sylva, but they also agreed to some changes. That decision is getting plenty of reaction.

{snip}

In an era of racial tension, the Confederate statue known as “Sylva Sam” overlooking the town is sparking debate. Sylva leaders sent Jackson County commissioners a resolution asking for its removal from the old county courthouse, out of town limits.

“I made a motion that we deny Sylva’s request,” Commission Chairman Brian McMahan said.

McMahan was part of a 4-1 vote Tuesday night to keep the statue where it is. But he said the board also agreed to an amendment.

“We are going to add a plaque to the front of the statue base covering up the Confederate flag with a list of Jackson County’s involvement in the Civil War,” he said. “Our ‘Heroes of the Confederacy’ will be removed from the base.”

McMahan said it’s a compromise.

{snip}

The president of the local NAACP said he would have preferred the statue’s removal. But, he said, he sees the compromise, too, reworking the statue’s context. He said questions will remain.

{snip}

Original article: Jackson County leaders vote to keep Confederate statue in Sylva -- with changes
It's encouraging to see common sense coming from both sides. Hopefully, that may begin to grow on other civic leaders, too.
 
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Albion

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Wanting to conserve Confederate monuments isn't about supporting the institution of slavery or racism; it's about protecting Southern heritage.
It's true. The way things are worded on monuments, etc. can make a difference, but it is a lie to make out that Southern soldiers fought for slavery.

Most did not own any slaves themselves and did not admire those who did.

But they were patriots and fought for their homeland. What people today do not understand is that until the Civil War, the state was considered to be first in one's line of loyalties. A man was first a Virginian or a Georgian, for instance.

Indeed, until that time, the usual way of speaking had it as "the United States, they...." which sounds ungrammatical to us today. It was only after the war that it became "the United States, it (or she)...."

And when the Pledge of Allegiance was written, a special effort was made to include a reference to the oneness of the union, as though that was needed ("One Nation, Indivisible....")
 
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tulc

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(snip) It's true. The way things are worded on monuments, etc. can make a difference, but it is a lie to make out that Southern soldiers fought for slavery.

Most did not own any slaves themselves and did not admire those who did.

But they were patriots and fought for their homeland. (snip)
Their homeland had slavery enshrined in their Constitution, so to say they "didn't like slavery they fought for their homeland." kind of omits that fact. They were more than willing to fight and kill so their "homeland" could have slavery. Been here:

Slavery in the Permanent Confederate Constitution
On March 11, 1861, the Confederate Congress, meeting in Montgomery, Alabama, adopted a permanent constitution for their new nation to supersede the provisional constitutional they had hastily adopted a little over a month before. Civil War Emancipation has already dealt with the latter document as it pertained to slavery. Today, it will deal with the permanent constitution on the same issue.

Like the provisional constitution, it was largely based on the U.S. Constitution, but with significant differences. As Stephanie McCurry writes in yesterday’s Disunion in the New York Times, “They purged the text of all of the ambivalences, compromises and hedges about slavery, representation and the power of the federal government that had plagued the republic since the founding.” Also, like the provision constitution, the permanent Confederate Constitution dealt with slavery directly, not obliquely and by implication as in the U.S. Constitution. Clearly, the Confederate States of America was to be a slaveholders’ republic and felt no need to fudge that fact in its highest law.
tulc(notes the Confederate States seemed to be more honest about "Southern Culture" than people are now)
 
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JimR-OCDS

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It's true. The way things are worded on monuments, etc. can make a difference, but it is a lie to make out that Southern soldiers fought for slavery.

Most did not own any slaves themselves and did not admire those who did.

But they were patriots and fought for their homeland. What people today do not understand is that until the Civil War, the state was considered to be first in one's line of loyalties. A man was first a Virginian or a Georgian, for instance.

Indeed, until that time, the usual way of speaking had it as "the United States, they...." which sounds ungrammatical to us today. It was only after the war that it became "the United States, it (or she)...."

And when the Pledge of Allegiance was written, a special effort was made to include a reference to the oneness of the union, as though that was needed ("One Nation, Indivisible....")


They fought for their homeland which wanted to keep slavery legal.

As it was, after the Civil War Ended, many southern districts passed anti-vagrancy laws, so they could arrest freed black slaves an place them on prison work-gangs which worked on the large plantations. It was still slavery with a different name.
 
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