Defining marriage

[Carl Emerson]

Hi there,

I have come across an unusual position on marriage.

The claim is that scripture doesn't prescribe that marriage begins with a ceremony but rather cohabitation between seriously committed partners.

On the face of it would seem to have scriptural support considering Adam and Eve, Isaac and Rebecca, Jacob and Leah and Rachel, Ruth and Boaz etc.

Now I have had to face the issue of how to handle new converts previously unmarried and living together in a committed relationship - we would simply take them to the registry office and sign papers if they did not want to separate long enough to organize a wedding.

But if the scripture does not seem to make reference to God requiring a marriage ceremony then our insistence on one might be unjust.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated, fornication then would be unfaithfully violating a committed relationship.

We know that Jesus attended the wedding a Canna but we don't know if the participants were already cohabiting.

I need to say that such a position of defining marriage in this way does not sit well with me at all but mounting a scriptural argument to refute such a claim would be very helpful.

 

[Dave L]

Hi there,

I have come across an unusual position on marriage.

The claim is that scripture doesn't prescribe that marriage begins with a ceremony but rather cohabitation between seriously committed partners.

On the face of it would seem to have scriptural support considering Adam and Eve, Isaac and Rebecca, Jacob and Leah and Rachel, Ruth and Boaz etc.

Now I have had to face the issue of how to handle new converts previously unmarried and living together in a committed relationship - we would simply take them to the registry office and sign papers if they did not want to separate long enough to organize a wedding.

But if the scripture does not seem to make reference to God requiring a marriage ceremony then our insistence on one might be unjust.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated, fornication then would be unfaithfully violating a committed relationship.

We know that Jesus attended the wedding a Canna but we don't know if the participants were already cohabiting.

I need to say that such a position of defining marriage in this way does not sit well with me at all but mounting a scriptural argument to refute such a claim would be very helpful.

“Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, “Tell them which are bidden, ‘Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage’ ”.” Matthew 22:4 (NCPB)

“Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.”” Matthew 22:9 (NCPB)

“And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, ‘They have no wine’.” John 2:1–3 (NCPB)

Jesus said the man the woman with 5 husbands was presently living with was not her husband.

“The woman answered and said, ‘I have no husband’. Jesus said unto her, ‘Thou hast well said, “I have no husband”: for thou hast had five husbands, and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly’.” John 4:17–18 (NCPB)

 

[Andrewn]

But if the scripture does not seem to make reference to God requiring a marriage ceremony then our insistence on one might be unjust.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated, fornication then would be unfaithfully violating a committed relationship.

I've occasionally seen committed relationships without a Christian marriage. At the other extreme, the RC & EO who believe that marriage is actually a sacrament administered by the Church without which people are would be living in sin.

I think the Church blesses the marriage but doesn't make it happen. I think it is strongly advised to have a marriage blessed by the Church. Many countries recognize "common-law marriage." Around one-fifth of Canadians are in common-law relationships, a three-fold increase from 1981, according to 2016 data from Statistics Canada. Citizenship & Immigration Canada states that a common-law partner refers to a person who is living in a conjugal relationship with another person (opposite or same sex), and has done so continuously for a period of at least one year.

My bias is toward traditional marriage and that without a ceremony there is no blessing. I know that instead of answering your questing I complicated the issue by introducing homosexual cohabitation.

 

[Running2win]

Hi there,

I have come across an unusual position on marriage.

The claim is that scripture doesn't prescribe that marriage begins with a ceremony but rather cohabitation between seriously committed partners.

On the face of it would seem to have scriptural support considering Adam and Eve, Isaac and Rebecca, Jacob and Leah and Rachel, Ruth and Boaz etc.

Now I have had to face the issue of how to handle new converts previously unmarried and living together in a committed relationship - we would simply take them to the registry office and sign papers if they did not want to separate long enough to organize a wedding.

But if the scripture does not seem to make reference to God requiring a marriage ceremony then our insistence on one might be unjust.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated, fornication then would be unfaithfully violating a committed relationship.

We know that Jesus attended the wedding a Canna but we don't know if the participants were already cohabiting.

I need to say that such a position of defining marriage in this way does not sit well with me at all but mounting a scriptural argument to refute such a claim would be very helpful.

Ah...Luke 2. And all the qualifications in the Scriptures about deacons and elders. A good wife is from the lord, and the example that we are the bride of Christ.

My wife and I had a small ceremony in he Mom's house. We invited a few guests, the preacher said the words. We were both on our second marriage, but I like that better than the first one at a church (that didn't last but 2 years when she decided to leave and divorce me). We have been married 26 years as of this year.

I would encourage at least a small ceremony. It's like being baptized, now you are opening declaring you are "one" with Jesus' death burial and resurrection. It has to be in the public-like John was doing. People do weddings world wide, it's a public event where you are held accountable with witnesses. I would not just sign a piece of paper for someone. Go down this road and marriage is done.

 

[Running2win]

I've occasionally seen committed relationships without a Christian marriage. At the other extreme, the RC & EO who believe that marriage is actually a sacrament administered by the Church without which people are would be living in sin.

I think the Church blesses the marriage but doesn't make it happen. I think it is strongly advised to have a marriage blessed by the Church. Many countries recognize "common-law marriage." Around one-fifth of Canadians are in common-law relationships, a three-fold increase from 1981, according to 2016 data from Statistics Canada. Citizenship & Immigration Canada states that a common-law partner refers to a person who is living in a conjugal relationship with another person (opposite or same sex), and has done so continuously for a period of at least one year.

My bias is toward traditional marriage and that without a ceremony there is no blessing. I know that instead of answering your questing I complicated the issue by introducing homosexual cohabitation.

Yeah. What I said. If you just cohab, you are not married. How hard is this?

Paul makes it crystal that in order to not fornicate, have a wife. Just read from 1st Cor. 5-7, and you will see Paul make the case for being married. If you are not married, you are living in sin-like old preachers use to tell it without shame. It shows the day and age we live in when even people that claim to be following Christ are living in sin and don't want to get married.

 

[NBB]

You get 'married' when you have sex, 'What God has joined, no one should separate'

5 And God said, ‘That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. And the two people will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two, but one. God has joined them together, so no one should separate them.”

Fornication is when you don't care about being together for life and don't have commitment i would think.

 

[GospelS]

Marriage is a covenant. We can look in the scriptures the way how God made covenants/entered into a covenant relationship with His people. It's usually always an official event accompanied by a mediator, a witness, and a sign at the minimum. And sex is consummation of a marriage covenant.

 

[tturt]

Like so many topics,, it's not all in one chapter. First there was an agreement then later a ceremony.

"And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? ..." Deu 20:7

Gen 2 and Eph 5:23 man leaves his father and mother then unites with his wife. Gen 24, Abraham sending his servant out for the purpose of getting God's choice of a bride for Isaac. This chapter includes the purpose being stated to her family, gifts, witnesses, and most importantly, the bride agreeing. Also, Samson In Judges 14 shows the agreement is first "And he came up, and told his father and his mother, and said, I have seen a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines: now therefore get her for me to wife." Also, betrothals were legally binding contracts and they were considered married. If broken, they had to get a divorce. Luke 1 states Mary was a virgin and espoused to Joseph. If they were sexually active, Joseph would not have considered putting her away. Matt 1

Once they were bethrothed, the groom returned to his father's house to prepare for his bride. Plus, the bride made herself ready (Rev 19:7). Their communication was through a friend of the bridegroom. Sometimes that designated friend and the bride ended up marrying as was Samson's case Judges 14.

They didn't have a wedding ceremony until the groom's Father said it was time and it lasted 7 days.

We are Christ's bride (II Cor 11:2-3). Sure you can see - He wants His bride - whosoever will come to Him and accept Him as their Savior (Matt 10:32, I Pet 2:9), our price has been paid in full (Luk 24:46-47, Eph 5:25 John 10:11,19:30, Rev 5:9+), He is preparing a place for us (John 14:2-3), we are expecting Him to come (Rev 19:7, 22:17), He'll come back when the Father says the day and hour (Matt 24:36),, He'll return with His bridal party (Jer 13:9, I Thess 4:16-18, Matt 24:30-31) , and we'll have the marriage supper of the Lamb (Rev 19:9).

 

[Running2win]

You get 'married' when you have sex, 'What God has joined, no one should separate'

5 And God said, ‘That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. And the two people will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two, but one. God has joined them together, so no one should separate them.”

Fornication is when you don't care about being together for life and don't have commitment i would think.

No, fornication is sex outside of marriage. It's not just a commitment. Commitment has to involved or it will fail. God has to be the third strand of the binding rope. All the laws are built upon marriage and what is easily understood the world over. Just living together is not marriage. Adam and Eve were the only ones at the time. God still "preformed" the ceremony.

The model in the Bible follows a Jewish pattern. We in USA use to follow a similar pattern: Dating, engagement, then wedding. This is our tradition as a Christian nation. Now everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes.

Good answers in got questions.


https://free.messianicbible.com/feature/ancient-jewish-wedding-customs-and-yeshuas-second-coming/

Is it wrong for a couple to live together before marriage? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Radagast]

The claim is that scripture doesn't prescribe that marriage begins with a ceremony but rather cohabitation between seriously committed partners.

Historically, that is what marriage was. Legally, that survives in some US States, where you can be legally (and permanently) married just by moving in with someone and referring to yourselves as "Mr and Mrs."

Likewise, the Puritans saw marriage as a legal contract (or "covenant") between the couple, and therefore they were married outside the church.

But those arrangement were all understood to be permanent.

But if the scripture does not seem to make reference to God requiring a marriage ceremony then our insistence on one might be unjust.

There is no requirement for a "ceremony." In many countries, couples are married by signing forms at a government office, and a church blessing of the marriage is held later.

But the key to what has been called "natural" marriage is a commitment to live together for life (a commitment made known to the community). This is what the human race has traditionally understood as "marriage."

Biblically, this is expressed in Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." The public commitment to permanent "cleaving" is the important part.

In present-day NZ or Australia, the only way to make such a commitment is to be legally married. The other options are all understood by the community to be temporary; they are therefore not marriages.

We know that Jesus attended the wedding a Canna

Jesus attended a wedding feast, celebrating the fact that two people had become married. Whether there was a ceremony or not isn't described.

Historically, the church has gotten involved in marriages in three ways: first, to bless and pray for and celebrate the marriage taking place; second to handle cases where "church law" was different from "national law," such as in the early church, where one member of the couple was a slave, and therefore not allowed to marry under Roman law; and third, as in the UK, Australia, and NZ, as a "subcontractor" for the state.

 

[Radagast]

I think the Church blesses the marriage but doesn't make it happen.

That is in fact the Latin Catholic position.

Catholic Catechism #1623: According to Latin tradition, the spouses as ministers of Christ's grace mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern Churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent given by the spouses, but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.

Many countries recognize "common-law marriage."

But that phrase means two different things:

• in parts of the US, a legal and permanent marriage created without paperwork
• in some other places, as in Canada, a temporary "living together" arrangement

 

[Radagast]

Marriage is a covenant. We can look in the scriptures the way how God made covenants/entered into a covenant relationship with His people. It's usually always an official event accompanied by a mediator, a witness, and a sign at the minimum. And sex is consummation of a marriage covenant.

That's right. Historically, governments only got involved because sex leads to children, which leads to legal disputes about inheritance.

In some jurisdictions, such as the UK, the government can declare a marriage void if one party is unwilling or physically unable to consummate the marriage.

 

[Isilwen]

we would simply take them to the registry office and sign papers if they did not want to separate long enough to organize a wedding.

I'm curious, did you ask if you could do this with these couples or was there an ultimatum?

 

[Dave L]

You get 'married' when you have sex, 'What God has joined, no one should separate'

5 And God said, ‘That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. And the two people will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two, but one. God has joined them together, so no one should separate them.”

Fornication is when you don't care about being together for life and don't have commitment i would think.

Jesus told the woman with 5 husbands, the man she was now living with is not her husband. So marriage is not about sex. It's a public commitment in a ceremony. Defining marriage

 

[NBB]

No, fornication is sex outside of marriage. It's not just a commitment. Commitment has to involved or it will fail. God has to be the third strand of the binding rope. All the laws are built upon marriage and what is easily understood the world over. Just living together is not marriage. Adam and Eve were the only ones at the time. God still "preformed" the ceremony.

The model in the Bible follows a Jewish pattern. We in USA use to follow a similar pattern: Dating, engagement, then wedding. This is our tradition as a Christian nation. Now everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes.

Good answers in got questions.


Ancient Jewish Wedding Customs and Yeshua's Second Coming | Messianic Bible

Is it wrong for a couple to live together before marriage? | GotQuestions.org

So, you need a ceremony or you are fornicating? i don't think is that way that it works, i don't know i don't think people in the bible were fornicating when they 'joined' with their wifes/husbands, they had a commitment they took it seriously that is what matters i would think.

 

[NBB]

Jesus told the woman with 5 husbands, the man she was now living with is not her husband. So marriage is not about sex. It's a public commitment in a ceremony. Defining marriage

You are not married in the eyes of God until you have sex, the bible says in that verse the two will become one, becoming one flesh is when having sex. i can be wrong but i don't think 'formalities' as like a 'ceremony' is needed to not sin, there are various examples in the bible, when they just 'joined' (have sex) and they were not fornicating.

 

[NBB]

Jesus told the woman with 5 husbands, the man she was now living with is not her husband. So marriage is not about sex. It's a public commitment in a ceremony. Defining marriage

The ceremony is not needed, its needed just a commitment before God and thats it, if not people without church or relatives could not get married.

 

[Dave L]

The ceremony is not needed, its needed just a commitment before God and thats it, if not people without church or relatives could not get married.

Where does scripture teach your position? It's always public in scripture.

 

[Dave L]

You are not married in the eyes of God until you have sex, the bible says in that verse the two will become one, becoming one flesh is when having sex. i can be wrong but i don't think 'formalities' as like a 'ceremony' is needed to not sin, there are various examples in the bible, when they just 'joined' (have sex) and they were not fornicating.

You are married in having a wedding. They are interchangeable terms. You just fornicate otherwise.

 

[Radagast]

The ceremony is not needed, its needed just a commitment before God and thats it, if not people without church or relatives could not get married.

No, the commitment has to be a public one, at least before witnesses. Otherwise there's no accountability.