Desolation of the physical temple

[Douggg]

transgression of desolation - Daniel 8:13-14

= 2Thessalonias2:3-4 Antichrist act, sits in the temple, claiming to be God - triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.



abomination of desolation - Daniel 12:11-12

= Matthew 24:15, Revelation 13 image of the beast, placed on the temple mount grounds - triggers the tribulation of those days (1290 days long), within the Great tribulation (1335 days long).


__________________________________________________ ___________________

Temple will be cleansed of the three things that will have made it desolate at Jesus's return.

1. False Prophet - cast alive into the lake of fire

2. Beast (formerly the Antichrist) - cast alive into the lake of fire.

3. The great statue image of the beast - burst into flames and turned to ashes.


Satan exposed on the temple mount. A lone angel with a chain binds Satan and Satan is cast into the bottomless pit.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

the little horn - 7th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire, the EU

the Antichrist - King of Israel, coming in his own name , the little horn following Gog/Magog, ends when revealed as the man of sin.

the beast - 8th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire, the EU dictator, formerly the little horn.

 

[Lost4words]

Problem being is that the temple mount is not where the temple actually was

 

[Douggg]

Problem being is that the temple mount is not where the temple actually was

I haven't heard the Jews themselves advocate that the temple they want to be built is anywhere but on what is currently described as the temple mount.

I was watching that video and they seem to be stressing that Solomon's temple was in the city of David, but they did not seem to address Herod's temple as being in the city of David. Where are all the big stones cast down from Herod's temple in the city of David?

 

[Lost4words]

I haven't heard the Jews themselves advocate that the temple they want to be built is anywhere but on what is currently described as the temple mount.

I was watching that video and they seem to be stressing that Solomon's temple was in the city of David, but they did not seem to address Herod's temple as being in the city of David. Where are all the big stones cast down from Herod's temple in the city of David?

The Jews were out of Jerusalem for many many years. Even they are confused as to its location.

 

[Lost4words]

Another good video on the subject

 

[BABerean2]

= Matthew 24:15,

Matthew 24:15-16, and Luke 21:20-21, are parallel accounts, because we have the same exact warning to flee in both passages.

See John 10:22 for the "understanding".


.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 24:15-16, and Luke 21:20-21, are parallel accounts, because we have the same exact warning to flee in both passages.

See John 10:22 for the "understanding".


.

Why are you disregarding Revelation 13 the image of the beast?

Luke 21:20-21 does not mention the abomination of desolation.

 

[Running2win]

Problem being is that the temple mount is not where the temple actually was

Nice! Love talk of the Temple!
That would pave the way for the Temple to be built without the Muslims going ape.
Time will tell.

 

[Timtofly]

I haven't heard the Jews themselves advocate that the temple they want to be built is anywhere but on what is currently described as the temple mount.

I was watching that video and they seem to be stressing that Solomon's temple was in the city of David, but they did not seem to address Herod's temple as being in the city of David. Where are all the big stones cast down from Herod's temple in the city of David?

Who knows? A Sultan of the Ottoman empire rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem around 1540AD.

 

[BABerean2]

Why are you disregarding Revelation 13 the image of the beast?

Luke 21:20-21 does not mention the abomination of desolation.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


If you do not understand the celebration of Hanukkah in John 10:22, you do not understand Matthew 24:15.


The common word elements above prove the two passages are parallel.

You can only separate them by purposely ignoring John 10:22.

The Jews of Jesus day celebrated Hanukkah every year, and well understood He was talking about the attack upon the city, and the stop of temple sacrifices by Antiochus Epiphanes during 167 BC. The same thing would happen during 70 AD.
Luke's Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.

.

 

[Douggg]

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


If you do not understand the celebration of Hanukkah in John 10:22, you do not understand Matthew 24:15.


The common word elements above prove the two passages are parallel.

You can only separate them by purposely ignoring John 10:22.

The Jews of Jesus day celebrated Hanukkah every year, and well understood He was talking about the attack upon the city, and the stop of temple sacrifices by Antiochus Epiphanes during 167 BC. The same thing would happen during 70 AD.
Luke's Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.

.

Jesus was speaking of a future event in Matthew 24:15. Referring to Daniel 12:11-12.

The armies in 70 AD are not the abomination of desolation, because in Daniel 12:11-12, the AoD is something setup.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The image of the beast, a statue wll be setup on the temple mount out in the open where it can be seen.

 

[Running2win]

Here is another (original point of view). Also, according to one of Randall Price's books- and eye witness, the Ark in in one of the tunnels under the Temple mount.

Mount Moriah or the City of David? – Israel My Glory.

IMO, finding the Ark could spur a movement to build a Temple to house it in. Where ever it is built, the Temple will be measured and accepted by God, according to Rev 11. The out side court won't.

 

[Running2win]

The thing about the Ezek. Temple is the earths geography will have to be changed in order for it to fit. We find that is what happens during the Day of the Lord judgments. Rev 16, Zech 14, 2nd Pet 3. Will the Temple proper the Jews build be preserved and moved and the outer sections be built? Or will a totally new Temple be built? That is the question in my mind.

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus was speaking of a future event in Matthew 24:15. Referring to Daniel 12:11-12.

The armies in 70 AD are not the abomination of desolation, because in Daniel 12:11-12, the AoD is something setup.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The image of the beast, a statue wll be setup on the temple mount out in the open where it can be seen.

Why are you attempting to ignore John 10:22?



.

 

[BABerean2]

Here is another (original point of view). Also, according to one of Randall Price's books- and eye witness, the Ark in in one of the tunnels under the Temple mount.

Mount Moriah or the City of David? – Israel My Glory.

IMO, finding the Ark could spur a movement to build a Temple to house it in. Where ever it is built, the Temple will be measured and accepted by God, according to Rev 11. The out side court won't.

I touched the ark of Covenant last night, and I was not killed.
It is revealed by Romans 8:9, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and 1 John 2:27.

Based on 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24, the Gold covered box which held the stone tablets is now "obsolete".


The location of the temple in Revelation 11 is found at the end of the chapter.


Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

.

 

[Douggg]

Why are you attempting to ignore John 10:22?
.

Because hanukkah is not relevant to Matthew 24:15. Matthew 24:15 is a future end times event. Parable of the fig tee generation.

 

[mkgal1]

The armies in 70 AD are not the abomination of desolation, because in Daniel 12:11-12, the AoD is something setup.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Back up a bit to v. 7 to see the timing of this:

Daniel 12:7 ~ I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.​

Which (in my belief) coincides with what Jesus had said here (about when Herod’s temple would be completely destroyed - stripping away the power of the Temple religious leaders):

Matthew 24:1-2 ~ Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Mark 13:1-2 ~ As He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, "Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!" Do you see all these great buildings?” Jesus replied. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Luke 21:5-6 ~ As some of the disciples were remarking how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and consecrated gifts, Jesus said, “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

* Remigius Bishop of Reims(437-533 AD) tells us:

“[F]or on the approach of the Roman army, all the Christians in the province, warned, as ecclesiastical history tells us, miraculously from heaven, withdrew, and passing the Jordan, took refuge in the city of Pella; and under the protection of that King Agrippa, of whom we read in the Acts of the Apostles, they continued some time.”

​

 

[Douggg]

Back up a bit to v. 7 to see the timing of this:

Daniel 12:7 ~ I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.
Which (in my belief) coincides with what Jesus had said here (about when Herod’s temple would be completely destroyed - stripping away the power of the Temple religious leaders):

I don't think it is talking about the Pharisees and Sadducee's as being God's holy people. I think I would look at this...

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't think it is talking about the Pharisees and Sadducee's as being God's holy people. I think I would look at this...

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Verses 15-28 speak of the beasts in Daniel's prophecy. There's a change that occurred in who represented God's kingdom. Under the Mosaic Covenant, that was the Levitical priests....but we know that priesthood ended in 70 AD.

V. 18 ~ But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever—yes, forever and ever.’
​

Jesus had told a parable about this change....and the Chief priests and Pharisees knew Jesus was referring to them (so I do believe the 4th beast was the Jewish zealots in 66-70 AD).

Parable of the Wicked Tenants
Matthew 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-18

Mark 12:9-12 ~
9What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants, and will give the vineyard to others. 10Have you never read this Scripture:

‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone.11This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’a?”​

​

12At this, the leaders soughtb to arrest Jesus, for they knew that He had spoken this parable against them. But fearing the crowd, they left Him and went away. ​

What Adam Maarschalk has written about this, is what makes sense to me:

Quoting Adam Maarschalk: "Israel and Jerusalem suffered defeat and destruction during the Jewish-Roman War (66-73 AD). They were ground to powder by the falling stone of Daniel 2:34-35, 45. Yet out of that tragedy has come the awesome, redemptive, and enduring news that this stone is a great mountain, the kingdom of God. It’s a kingdom that has no end (Luke 1:33)."​

The Little Horn Changed Times and Law (Daniel 7:25)

Daniel 7: The Fourth Beast, 10 Horns, Three Horns, and a Little Horn

 

[BABerean2]

Because hanukkah is not relevant to Matthew 24:15. Matthew 24:15 is a future end times event. Parable of the fig tee generation.

Christ cursed the fig tree during the first century.

Are you claiming Hanukkah is not related to the Book of Daniel?

The Jewish historian Josephus gives us the understanding of the Jews who lived during the first century.

From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies.


.