Seattle Police Chief to Residents, Business Owners: You’re on Your Own

Will anarchy reign in Seattle?

  • Yes

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Lord Vega

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From the article: Seattle Chief of Police Carmen Best advised her city’s business owners and residents that local police will not “risk their personal safety to protect property” after a ban issued by the city council of “less lethal tools” — such as pepper spray — for the purposes dispersing crowds to control rioters.

Best issued her warning in a letter on Friday:

Dear Business Owner and/or Resident:

Please know that the Seattle Police Department is committed to addressing life safety incidents and calls for service, and responding to ongoing demonstrations and unrest in the city.

Please also know that the City Council Ordinance 119805 Crowd Control Tool goes into effect this weekend on July 26, 020. This ordinance bans Seattle Police officers [from using] less lethal tools, including pepper spray that is commonly used to disperse crowds that have turned violent. Simply put, the legislation gives officers NO ability to safely intercede to preserve property in the midst of a large, violent crowd.

It is important to bring to your attention that yesterday, I sent the City Council a letter ensuring them that as the Chief of Police, I have done my due diligence of informing them them numerous times of the foreseeable impact of this ordinance on upcoming events. The letter is attached for your reference.

For these reasons, Seattle Police will have an adjusted deployment in response to any demonstrations this weekend – as I will never ask our officers to risk their personal safety to protect property without the tools to do so in a safe way.

Sincerely,

Carmen Best

Chief of Police

Read the rest of the article here: Seattle Police Chief to Residents, Business Owners: You're on Your Own
 

ZNP

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Simply put, the legislation gives officers NO ability to safely intercede to preserve property in the midst of a large, violent crowd.
These are perilous times. It might still be OK for Seattle as long as no one learns that the police are powerless to stop the protests from getting out of control.
 
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disciple Clint

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From the article: Seattle Chief of Police Carmen Best advised her city’s business owners and residents that local police will not “risk their personal safety to protect property” after a ban issued by the city council of “less lethal tools” — such as pepper spray — for the purposes dispersing crowds to control rioters.

Best issued her warning in a letter on Friday:

Dear Business Owner and/or Resident:

Please know that the Seattle Police Department is committed to addressing life safety incidents and calls for service, and responding to ongoing demonstrations and unrest in the city.

Please also know that the City Council Ordinance 119805 Crowd Control Tool goes into effect this weekend on July 26, 020. This ordinance bans Seattle Police officers [from using] less lethal tools, including pepper spray that is commonly used to disperse crowds that have turned violent. Simply put, the legislation gives officers NO ability to safely intercede to preserve property in the midst of a large, violent crowd.

It is important to bring to your attention that yesterday, I sent the City Council a letter ensuring them that as the Chief of Police, I have done my due diligence of informing them them numerous times of the foreseeable impact of this ordinance on upcoming events. The letter is attached for your reference.

For these reasons, Seattle Police will have an adjusted deployment in response to any demonstrations this weekend – as I will never ask our officers to risk their personal safety to protect property without the tools to do so in a safe way.

Sincerely,

Carmen Best

Chief of Police

Read the rest of the article here: Seattle Police Chief to Residents, Business Owners: You're on Your Own
it is foolish to limit the police to having only clubs and guns.
 
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Richard T

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The police chief is smart. His hands are tied and he is protecting his officers. The council is to blame so if the people do not like the results, then they will be voted out or in this case, be recalled.
 
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ZNP

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The police chef is misrepresenting what the ordinance actually says. Tear gas cannot be used to disperse a crowd, but it can still be used to prevent a crime, like rioting.
Whoa! How do you "prevent" rioting? You are saying while it is still a crowd and before it is a riot they can use tear gas? How is someone going to tell the difference, it is in the eye of the beholder. To one person they used tear gas to disperse a crowd, lock him up. To another he was preventing a crime like rioting, innocent!
 
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Arcangl86

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Whoa! How do you "prevent" rioting? You are saying while it is still a crowd and before it is a riot they can use tear gas? How is someone going to tell the difference, it is in the eye of the beholder. To one person they used tear gas to disperse a crowd, lock him up. To another he was preventing a crime like rioting, innocent!
I'm saying once the riot starts they can then use tear gas to try and bring it under control.
 
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ZNP

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So, do you think that it's okay to stop and search an individual while he is window shopping to stop him from shop lifting?
No, I think you need probable cause. Now that cameras are so cheap and saving footage to the internet is so cheap, and AI identifying people it is unnecessary for the police to get involved.

I entered this little discussion because you said the police chief is mistaken about the ordinance, you said he was allowed to use tear gas to prevent riots. I think the police chief is not mistaken. No way he asks his police to use tear gas until violent felonies are already being committed. Only then would it be justified to all. No doubt businesses and insurance companies would like them to use it to "prevent" the crime, but doing so would make the individual officers and the department as a whole liable to civil and criminal charges.

Now let's consider that. These protests and riots take place at night. Looting is often done while police are busy elsewhere. So what is the likelihood in the midst of the chaos to say "OK, we have clear violent felonies taking place"? On the contrary it is very possible the police wouldn't know about a violent felony for thirty minutes, maybe even longer. Now if you disperse peaceful protestors so that you can get to the violent looters will that be considered a violation of the ordinance? The police chief is right, they can't pull out the tear gas just because some people are looting, beating up people and burning down property. They have to wait until all hell breaks loose before they will not be liable.
 
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Yarddog

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No, I think you need probable cause.
Probable cause isn't using tear gas on peaceful protesters, who are legally there, so the President can make a campaign speech in front of a church that he doesn't attend.

I entered this little discussion because you said the police chief is mistaken about the ordinance, you said he was allowed to use tear gas to prevent riots.
That wasn't me. :)
 
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ZNP

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Probable cause isn't using tear gas on peaceful protesters, who are legally there, so the President can make a campaign speech in front of a church that he doesn't attend.
File a complaint, the majority of Americans agree with you.


That wasn't me. :)
Well we need to find out who it was!
 
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Yarddog

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Well we need to find out who it was!
The easy way to find out is to use the little blue arrows on the quote. Just push it and it takes you back the that post. Continue doing it til you get to the post you are looking for.
 
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disciple Clint

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The police chief is smart. His hands are tied and he is protecting his officers. The council is to blame so if the people do not like the results, then they will be voted out or in this case, be recalled.
The Seattle Police chief will not appreciate your comments about HER quite as much as you might anticipate. And she is smart and backs her troops. Unfortunately she has to deal with a mayor and city council who are not smart.
 
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disciple Clint

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So, do you think that it's okay to stop and search an individual while he is window shopping to stop him from shop lifting?
It might be. What if he has several layers of what you believe are stolen clothes on.
 
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disciple Clint

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That would the possibility that a crime had been which doesn't fit the scenario the poster put forth.
Maybe but I think it would fit if it was obvious that the individual had several layers of clothes on and he was now heading towards the fitting room with a cart full of clothes. I believe that would satisfy the reasonable articulable suspicion requirements under the law. If the search revealed clothes from another store that still had price tags attached there would be pc for an arrest.
 
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Yarddog

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Maybe but I think it would fit if it was obvious that the individual had several layers of clothes on and he was now heading towards the fitting room with a cart full of clothes. I believe that would satisfy the reasonable articulable suspicion requirements under the law. If the search revealed clothes from another store that still had price tags attached there would be pc for an arrest.
Your throwing a lot of "ifs" around when that doesn't meet the criteria of the post in question,
 
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disciple Clint

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Your throwing a lot of "ifs" around when that doesn't meet the criteria of the post in question,
looked like an open question, if you want specifics that limit the question put some in.
 
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