How do we make a stronger Christianity?

[Pavel Mosko]

I wish blessings upon all of you, in whatever manner you understand them; may we all work together to build a better world for all!

Going to take another wack at the OP, but rather than critiquing it, I'm going to talk about it in terms of "Books I've read that I recommend on the basic topic". I heartily recommend these two books to you unofficial Reverand Alex.


1) Finding Common Ground

https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Common-Ground-Communicate-Christian/dp/0802440967#:~:text=Finding Common Ground: How to,9780802440969: Amazon.com: Books



2) Conspiracy of Kindness
https://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Kindness-Unique-Approach-Sharing/dp/0764215884/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2VGA5APLCG7W6&dchild=1&keywords=conspiracy+of+kindness+steven+sjogren&qid=1595034329&s=books&sprefix=Conspiracy+of+kin,stripbooks,160&sr=1-1

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I wish blessings upon all of you, in whatever manner you understand them; may we all work together to build a better world for all!

I'll talk about Christian movements that I think have promise.

1) the Charismatic movement. I gained a lot from the Protestant end of that movement, even though there were a lot of big problems. The big thing I got was a notion that reminded of an old Army slogan, "Be all that you can be". I really like what I saw of the Catholic end of the movement, and wish I could have had more chances to be part of it.


2) the house church movement. This is one that also has had its problems especially with people who are very negative against Institutional Christianity, but I think it is really needed more (at least people doing more ministry in their houses etc.).



I was going to do a 3) touting the positive aspects of Postmodernism and Christianity(something that is usually only depicted negatively) but I'm afraid that subject is complex and warrants its own thread. Actually I did one a while ago and it got little attention.

Pavel's Postmodern thread

 

[cloudyday2]

Christianity has been very important to Western culture. This is why the US government added "in God we trust" to coins during the Cold War. A common religion gives people unity.

So one goal could be to strengthen Western culture by making Christianity the common religion again. Christians should be encouraged to marry other Christians and to have large families where the children are home-schooled. Consistent church attendance should be emphasized for families with children. The tithes to the churches should be used to help these large Christian families pay for health insurance, etc.

Christian ecumenism should be encouraged. Historically the Catholic/Protestant schism has been divisive. Maybe it wouldn't be a problem today.

Another possible goal might be truth. If I ever regain faith in Christianity it will be because I think it is true. That will probably require some persuasive evidence of God's and Jesus' activity in my life. Also the many problems in the evolution of Judaism and Christianity and the rituals and theology would need to be answered.

This is a really difficult question to answer as @awitch noted earlier. There are so many different types of strength.

 

[cloudyday2]

^ Of course there are alternatives to Christianity as a source of unity in Western culture. And it probably seems very cynical to make Christianity a tool of nationalism.

Jesus taught about the narrow way and only a few entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Another way to think about strengthening Christianity is to emphasize the faith and practices of "the elect" rather than trying to have a lot of lukewarm Christians.

Emphasizing tolerance of other religions and depoliticizing Christianity might diffuse the hostility that many non-Christians feel towards Christians. There isn't a lot of hostility towards Buddhists in the US, because Buddhism is a private matter for most Buddhists. Christianity might follow that example and emphasize personal piety.

 

[cloudyday2]

Yet another way to strengthen Christianity might be to humbly consider the possibility that the theology and traditions modern Christians have inherited do not harmonize well with modern morality and science and archaeology and therefore might be wrong. To consider this possibility is not to discard Christian faith. The core of Christian faith is the individual believer's relationship with God and Jesus. In theory this relationship ought to allow modern Christians to reconstruct Christian theology and traditions from a blank slate. Every assumption should be questioned and God should be consulted through prayer and so on. What emerges might be a new and purer Christianity that no longer requires mental gymnastics to reconcile with our modern understanding of things. The Christian apologists could find another calling, because there would be no explaining to do. ... I'm not saying this would necessarily work, but it is an idea.

 

[JackRT]

A stronger Christianity would be a more compassionate Christianity, a Christianity more concerned with justice rather than judgement.

 

[eleos1954]

I am not sure, but if God is real, he would know and could easily do it. The fact that he doesn't either means he can't, he isn't there, or doesn't want to.

well ... it's interesting ... what I do know is that for every one of God's truth in His Word (every single one) ... satan has a deceptive lie about it ... so God says he created everything (the universe) in 6 days and then sealed His creation with His Sabbath. Creation is unchangeable. Science on the other hand .... creates theories, constantly changing/modifying or creating theories.

So satans lie about creation is evolution (or any form of it - micro evolution accepted and inline with His Word - ie after their kind - male & female) .... and God says the evidence of Him IS His creation(s) ... that of what we see in nature and therefore no one is without excuse.

Romans 1:20

For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Genesis 1:24

Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so

Genesis 1:11

Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God says we are not animals ... evolution says we are.

Genesis 5:2

Male and female He created them, and He blessed them. And in the day they were created, He called them "man."

and this is exactly what we see ... and always has been ... anything else is theory.

So ... you say you (others) need evidence .... yet don't even know what evidence would convince you? .... I find that very odd ... that you can't come up with anything.

God is supernatural .... so even things that are totally unexplainable (by science) well then ... along comes more theories ... unverifiable "random happenings" over millions/billions of years ... and are theories (not facts).

People are denying what they see ... and believing deceptive lies (theories).

People believe what they want to believe and it's not based on indisputable facts (whether God or something else) ... nobody knows everything there is to be known ... and never will ... that is a fact ... so be it.

In the end .... God will give people over to what they believe ... in the end His truth WILL prevail and everyone will know the truth ... sad thing ... MANY will then know and will be on the wrong side of eternity (lost for eternity).

Eternity ... think about it.

 

[awitch]

So satans lie about creation is evolution (or any form of it - micro evolution accepted and inline with His Word - ie after their kind - male & female) .... and God says the evidence of Him IS His creation(s) ... that of what we see in nature and therefore no one is without excuse.

Things exist, therefore: This particular god and backstory are true. As per said god.
That is probably the worst argument ever.

Denying reality like evolution is also a sign of weakness and insecurity; not strength.

In the end .... God will give people over to what they believe ... in the end His truth WILL prevail and everyone will know the truth ... sad thing ... MANY will then know and will be on the wrong side of eternity (lost for eternity).

Eternity ... think about it.

I personally find passive aggressive threats about eternal punishments to also be a massive sign of weakness and insecurity; and definitely not strength.

 

[Bobber]

.

 

[Bobber]

well ... it's interesting ... what I do know is that for every one of God's truth in His Word (every single one) ... satan has a deceptive lie about it ... so God says he created everything (the universe) in 6 days and then sealed His creation with His Sabbath. Creation is unchangeable. Science on the other hand .... creates theories, constantly changing/modifying or creating theories.

So satans lie about creation is evolution (or any form of it - micro evolution accepted and inline with His Word - ie after their kind - male & female) .... and God says the evidence of Him IS His creation(s) ... that of what we see in nature and therefore no one is without excuse.

Romans 1:20

For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Genesis 1:24

Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so

Genesis 1:11

Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God says we are not animals ... evolution says we are.

Genesis 5:2

Male and female He created them, and He blessed them. And in the day they were created, He called them "man."

and this is exactly what we see ... and always has been ... anything else is theory.

So ... you say you (others) need evidence .... yet don't even know what evidence would convince you? .... I find that very odd ... that you can't come up with anything.

God is supernatural .... so even things that are totally unexplainable (by science) well then ... along comes more theories ... unverifiable "random happenings" over millions/billions of years ... and are theories (not facts).

People are denying what they see ... and believing deceptive lies (theories).

People believe what they want to believe and it's not based on indisputable facts (whether God or something else) ... nobody knows everything there is to be known ... and never will ... that is a fact ... so be it.

In the end .... God will give people over to what they believe ... in the end His truth WILL prevail and everyone will know the truth ... sad thing ... MANY will then know and will be on the wrong side of eternity (lost for eternity).

Eternity ... think about it.

Well said.

And I know the response of a few might be that creation isn't sufficient proof for me to believe there's a God. Here however is what REALLY needs to be considered.

It doesn't matter what we claim to be sufficient evidence. The only thing that matters is what God will say in the Judgment Day. He has said, NOT MAN but God has said it IS sufficient and was sufficient and excuses to the contrary will not be accepted. Rom 1: 20 There's the things of creation of great design and order and if it was anything else outside of things connected with God they'd never believe what they see in the design of it could be by chance.

So this doesn't mean God is being obstinate by not doing what some of his critics on here say but I've heard it said that if he did whatever a skeptic said they'd still find reason to doubt if it was God Almighty.

 

[cloudyday2]

The role of the Bible in determining truths about God needs to be reduced. This is a particular problem among Protestants who lack an alternative authority such as the Vatican. Many Christians seem to think that the Bible can provide the answers to any religious question of consequence. That seems to be a source of weakness.

 

[com7fy8]

Christians should be encouraged to marry other Christians and to have large families where the children are home-schooled.

Children have learned to speak every language . . . while ones with doctorates in a language might not be able to speak as well as a child. Why? The child was praised for making any sound, at first, then exposed constantly to the others speaking the language, in a family setting. So, yes family schooling can work very well.

Jesus spent time with His disciples in the garden. He did not just preach to them while reaching to crowds; there was personal sharing and relating. They saw how He loved them.

So . . . also . . . children need to see how their parents relate > including >

"without complaining and disputing" (in Philippians 2:14).

We need to relate without arguing and complaining, be kind to each other >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

Learning how to relate and communicate in love is part of our best education and the most worthwhile and interesting challenge there is If we don't first do this . . . in sharing with God making us able . . . this is why we are bored and lonely and weak enough to deeply keep suffering and being able to break down in arguing and complaining and blaming. Only in God's love can we be strong and sensitive and submissive so we can do well in relating closely with other people.

Otherwise, we will see distant leaders trying to reform outward things, while we are distant in the pretended unity which results, and the distant rescuing of needy people who we might keep somewhere away from ourselves.

 

[Bobber]

The role of the Bible in determining truths about God needs to be reduced.

Nope. I consider the Bible to be the revelation of that which is truly substantial.

This is a particular problem among Protestants who lack an alternative authority such as the Vatican.

Sorry not buying it. You may claim or even think the Vatican is the authority of Christianity. All I'm saying there's so many, many things I personally don't believe line up with God's revelation and I won't entertain any condescending notion that other believers can't rightly challenge some of their conclusions.

Many Christians seem to think that the Bible can provide the answers to any religious question of consequence.

It does. Everything that pertains to life and godliness has been provided in the revelation. Now if you're talking about foolish, unanswerable questions then no it doesn't. But you said religious questions of consequence....I say it does. God hasn't left us in the dark about important issues.

 

[cloudyday2]

Nope. I consider the Bible to be the revelation of that which is truly substantial.

Have you ever heard of people who specialize in defending New Age religions against criticism in the way that Christian apologists defend Christianity? That's because New Age religions aren't hobbled by a religious text. A New Age religion can develop an idea, and that idea can sink or swim in the sea of modern reality based on its own merits. A Christian idea must first be found somewhere in the Bible. If the Christian idea can't be found in the Bible then it isn't true - even if it swims well. And if a Christian idea appears in the Bible then it is claimed to be true - even if it sinks like a rock. That's a problem for Christianity. The Bible is being used in a way that was never imagined or intended by the people who wrote it.

 

[Caliban]

well ... it's interesting ... what I do know is that for every one of God's truth in His Word (every single one) ... satan has a deceptive lie about it ... so God says he created everything (the universe) in 6 days and then sealed His creation with His Sabbath. Creation is unchangeable. Science on the other hand .... creates theories, constantly changing/modifying or creating theories.

So satans lie about creation is evolution (or any form of it - micro evolution accepted and inline with His Word - ie after their kind - male & female) .... and God says the evidence of Him IS His creation(s) ... that of what we see in nature and therefore no one is without excuse.

Romans 1:20

For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Genesis 1:24

Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so

Genesis 1:11

Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God says we are not animals ... evolution says we are.

Genesis 5:2

Male and female He created them, and He blessed them. And in the day they were created, He called them "man."

and this is exactly what we see ... and always has been ... anything else is theory.

So ... you say you (others) need evidence .... yet don't even know what evidence would convince you? .... I find that very odd ... that you can't come up with anything.

God is supernatural .... so even things that are totally unexplainable (by science) well then ... along comes more theories ... unverifiable "random happenings" over millions/billions of years ... and are theories (not facts).

People are denying what they see ... and believing deceptive lies (theories).

People believe what they want to believe and it's not based on indisputable facts (whether God or something else) ... nobody knows everything there is to be known ... and never will ... that is a fact ... so be it.

In the end .... God will give people over to what they believe ... in the end His truth WILL prevail and everyone will know the truth ... sad thing ... MANY will then know and will be on the wrong side of eternity (lost for eternity).

Eternity ... think about it.

I don't agree with your assumptions. I understand you have faith in the Bible and because of that, you see reality different than I do. The Hebrew Bible is a reflection of how Ancient Near East people understood and described the world around them. They did the best they could with what they had--which wasn't much. Human understanding of the natural world has come a long way since then. We have been to space so there can't be a firmament holding back the rain. I am aware the Bible claims these things--I just don't believe them. I see no evidence that the Bible is true. The evidence points in the opposite direction. Do you have evidence other than the Bible which can corroborate your claims?

 

[eleos1954]

I don't agree with your assumptions. I understand you have faith in the Bible and because of that, you see reality different than I do. The Hebrew Bible is a reflection of how Ancient Near East people understood and described the world around them. They did the best they could with what they had--which wasn't much. Human understanding of the natural world has come a long way since then. We have been to space so there can't be a firmament holding back the rain. I am aware the Bible claims these things--I just don't believe them. I see no evidence that the Bible is true. The evidence points in the opposite direction. Do you have evidence other than the Bible which can corroborate your claims?

I have had divine intervention in my life many times .... too too long to post.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Arc F1]

I want Christian and non Christians it on this, because in a lot of ways, we're all in this together. A stronger Christianity, properly done, results in a better world for everyone.

So how do we do this? How do we bring about a Christianity that helps everyone out?

And I hate feeling like we need to beg for this, but please show respect in your replies. This thread & this subforum are designed to bring us together. Christians, we bicker too much already, and I hear the in-fighting of Christianity as the most common complaint against & reason to not join our beautiful faith. Non-Christians, you know I am showing an immense amount of respect by allowing you in on these discussions; please reciprocate this respect as you reply.

I wish blessings upon all of you, in whatever manner you understand them; may we all work together to build a better world for all!

We could stop trying to please the sinners. Ie: flying LGBT flags on churches. We need to stand firm in our beliefs and help incorporate those into the flock that wish to learn. We are spending too much time with non believers, those that have no desire to be Christians and only want to see our ways change. Even this forum allows people among us that only wish to sow doubt within the Christian belief.

You can see a non believer stranded on the side of the road in need and offer them a ride but to bring them to your home and letting them spread doubt is where you have to draw the line. It is possible to show love and compassion for the world without letting them lead you down the wrong path.

 

[Arc F1]

I don't agree with your assumptions. I understand you have faith in the Bible and because of that, you see reality different than I do. The Hebrew Bible is a reflection of how Ancient Near East people understood and described the world around them. They did the best they could with what they had--which wasn't much. Human understanding of the natural world has come a long way since then. We have been to space so there can't be a firmament holding back the rain. I am aware the Bible claims these things--I just don't believe them. I see no evidence that the Bible is true. The evidence points in the opposite direction. Do you have evidence other than the Bible which can corroborate your claims?

What draws you to Christians? Is it a desire to learn or a desire to prove God doesn't exist?

 

[Caliban]

What draws you to Christians? Is it a desire to learn or a desire to prove God doesn't exist?

I was a Christian for 40 years, I studied theology my entire adult life, and I have a degree in Religious Studies. I keep a hand in the game.

 

[ananda]

How do we bring about a Christianity that helps everyone out?

Christianity is, for all practical purposes, the sum of the behaviors of its adherents. So, imo, a Christianity that helps everyone out must require Christians that help everyone out.