What period of time are we presently living in?

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Timtofly

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The Amil understanding is that all is spiritual and nothing in this physical universe that exists now will ever matter because when Jesus comes back, the earth and universe will burn up and be replaced by an entirely new heavens and new earth. The only reason why that has not yet happened (in the A-mill understanding) is because of the great commission.

There is one verse + one passage of scripture which ensures the A-mills keep the kingdom of Christ spiritual only, and this present creation, completely corrupt and waiting only for complete destruction by fire:

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here. (John 18:36).

The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.

Then, all these things being about to be dissolved, what sort ought you to be in holy behavior and godliness,
looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat?
But according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
(2 Pet 3:9-13).

Every other passage of scripture both in the Old and the New Testament must be interpreted in the light of the above (in the A-mill understanding). Thus you will never, never, get a real, physical kingdom of Christ, or reign of Christ over the kingdoms of this world in a very real and literal way that is not merely spiritual, following His destruction of the beast and before the earth and all its works are burned up.

Therefore there has not only been a divorce between God and the genetic seed of Abraham who reject Christ, but there has also been a divorce between God and this current creation, according to this over-emphasis on certain scriptures and total ignoring of (more than de-emphasis of) everything else.

This is why A-mills will never, never consider the possibility of a literal thousand year reign of Christ. To them it contradicts the rest of the New Testament.
They should remove the mil part, because they reject the fact that the Day of the Lord, The Lord's Day, and Day of God, in physical time is 1000 years. God and the Lamb are there at the start of the 1000 years, and the earth being dissolved with fire is at the end. All of the day happens. It does not end before it starts. It does not start after it ends.
 
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DavidPT

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They should remove the mil part, because they reject the fact that the Day of the Lord, The Lord's Day, and Day of God, in physical time is 1000 years. God and the Lamb are there at the start of the 1000 years, and the earth being dissolved with fire is at the end. All of the day happens. It does not end before it starts. It does not start after it ends.


Even this has problems. The thousand years have a beginning and an end, of course. And when it is the end of the thousand years, it is no longer that day, obviously. That means all of the events that might follow, they are not happening during that day, but after that day. The first thing after that day is satan's little season. When it is satan's little season, that day, the thousand years, is in the past and entirely fulfilled, thus everything that follows happens outside of that day.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Some or maybe even most Premils, reason this part---in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up---to not happen at the beginning of the thousand years, but at the end of it. But how can it happen at the end of it when at the end of the thousand years it's satan's little season instead?

Assuming the day of the Lord involves a thousand years, like some Premils apparently tend to think, me initially being one of them until I thought through some of these things further, 2 Peter 3:10 would have to be meaning at the beginning of the thousand years, and certainly not at the end of it, since at the end of it is meaning satan's little season.
 
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Zao is life

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They should remove the mil part, because they reject the fact that the Day of the Lord, The Lord's Day, and Day of God, in physical time is 1000 years. God and the Lamb are there at the start of the 1000 years, and the earth being dissolved with fire is at the end. All of the day happens. It does not end before it starts. It does not start after it ends.
It's no wonder there was such an argument about whether or not the Revelation should be included in the Canon. It very nearly never made it into the Canon. The thousand years presents a wedge in the wheel of the dualistic good spiritual/evil material existence. When the faith of Abraham was rejected by the Jews and entered into the Roman world with its dualist philosophy, it was easy to forget that Christ came in the flesh to (bodily) resurrect the (bodily) dead that had died through corruption - not to burn it into non-existence.
 
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DavidPT

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Your own post contradicts you.

You explicitly stated, "Unless the proposed books are free, in general I'm not into any books that are trying to make a profit off the word of God." That is not openmindedness.

No contradiction. I simply neglected to bring it up the first time. I simply have a pet peeve regarding trying to make a profit on the word of God via books. If the insight in those books are beneficial to others, then that insight should be freely available and that one shouldn't have to purchase anything in order to benefit from the proposed insight. That's one thing.

But even if the books were free, how would me reading them possibly change my mind about things, thus change my position altogether? Thus what I brought up, that would be like me proposing some books for you to read which supports my pov, you then reading the books, then changing your position altogether. That's not going to happen in your case. So why should it be assumed, that the books you are proposing, that they are so convincing, that only someone out of their mind could read them but not be convinced by anything in them? And why should someone have to pay to read something that's not going to change their mind to begin with, assuming everyone might not have a pet peeve like I do about authors of books trying to make a profit on insight they are willing to share with others, assuming others are willing to pay them for this insight?

That tends to make me think of something like the following, since the concept seems to be somewhat similar.

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

And when the person noticed via reviews of certain books by others who have purchased these books themselves, this person then offered these authors of these books money as well, to learn what is in these books.
 
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Zao is life

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Even this has problems. The thousand years have a beginning and an end, of course. And when it is the end of the thousand years, it is no longer that day, obviously. That means all of the events that might follow, they are not happening during that day, but after that day. The first thing after that day is satan's little season. When it is satan's little season, that day, the thousand years, is in the past and entirely fulfilled, thus everything that follows happens outside of that day.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Some or maybe even most Premils, reason this part---in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up---to not happen at the beginning of the thousand years, but at the end of it. But how can it happen at the end of it when at the end of the thousand years it's satan's little season instead?

Assuming the day of the Lord involves a thousand years, like some Premils apparently tend to think, me initially being one of them until I thought through some of these things further, 2 Peter 3:10 would have to be meaning at the beginning of the thousand years, and certainly not at the end of it, since at the end of it is meaning satan's little season.
What did Joseph do for Pharaoh? He procured Egypt little by little for Pharaoh until all Egypt was under Pharaoh and was Pharaoh's own possession. By the time the millennium reaches its close, the weed will all have been pulled up and the world will have been swept clean and then Christ hands the Kingdom back to God the Father.

Christ came in the flesh to die for the creation and to resurrect the creation (that was dead through corruption) to newness of life. Otherwise why did He die and rise again, becoming the firsfruits of the resurrection from the dead? He came to deliver creation from the bondage of decay - that's what the new heavens and new earth means:

Rom 8:21-23 "..that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now. And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.

1 Cor 15:42 So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;

Christ would not have died a physical death if He was simply going to do away with the creation and create something entirely new. We are a new creation in Christ already, because of resurrection from corruption, of which He is the author:

Acts 2:27 because You will not leave My soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption.

Since Christ's body did not see corruption but was raised to life, this is the new creation. It's not an entirely "new creation" after this creation has been burned up - it's an entirely new creation through Christ's bodily resurrection.
 
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DavidPT

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What did Joseph do for Pharaoh? He procured Egypt little by little for Pharaoh until all Egypt was under Pharaoh and was Pharaoh's own possession. By the time the millennium reaches its close, the weed will all have been pulled up and the world will have been swept clean and then Christ hands the Kingdom back to God the Father.

Christ came in the flesh to die for the creation and to resurrect the creation (that was dead through corruption) to newness of life. Otherwise why did He die and rise again, becoming the firsfruits of the resurrection from the dead? He came to deliver creation from the bondage of decay - that's what the new heavens and new earth means:

Rom 8:21-23 "..that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now. And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.

1 Cor 15:42 So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;

Christ would not have died a physical death if He was simply going to do away with the creation and create something entirely new. We are a new creation in Christ already, because of resurrection from corruption, of which He is the author:

Acts 2:27 because You will not leave My soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption.

Since Christ's body did not see corruption but was raised to life, this is the new creation. It's not an entirely "new creation" after this creation has been burned up - it's an entirely new creation through Christ's bodily resurrection.



While you and I might agree about some of these things, there are still other things that Premils need to provide answers for.

For example. Adam almost lived an entire thousand years in this age, and that he was a mortal at the time. If Adam almost lived a thousand years, why wouldn't mortals be able to live an entire thousand years and then some? IOW, some of the mortals still alive but are spared during the 2nd coming, they are still alive after the thousand years expires. And let's say not all of them end up being deceived by satan.

What happens to them, then? How do they put on immortality in order to live forever as well? Doesn't 1 Cor 15 indicate that when one puts on immortality, it is at the last trump, in the twinkling of an eye? It is things such as this, being some of the reasons why I have admitted numerous times in the past, in some regards Amil appears to make better sense than Premil, this maybe being one of those times.
 
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Timtofly

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2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;

The start above
The end below

in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The thief in the night is before the day starts. It is the 6th seal. The harvest, the celibration, the interruption, the end of the celebration on Sunday. Monday the resurrection, firstfruits, start of the 1000 years.

The end comes after a little "season". One last battle, Gog and Megog, the GWT, it is all finished.
 
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Timtofly

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It's no wonder there was such an argument about whether or not the Revelation should be included in the Canon. It very nearly never made it into the Canon. The thousand years presents a wedge in the wheel of the dualistic good spiritual/evil material existence. When the faith of Abraham was rejected by the Jews and entered into the Roman world with its dualist philosophy, it was easy to forget that Christ came in the flesh to (bodily) resurrect the (bodily) dead that had died through corruption - not to burn it into non-existence.
Is your point that God and Satan had a discussion about how deceived humanity could be? God put His Word together in His Sovereignty. It had nothing to do with fallen humans, especially not their beliefs, doctrine, or theology.
 
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Zao is life

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While you and I might agree about some of these things, there are still other things that Premils need to provide answers for.

For example. Adam almost lived an entire thousand years in this age, and that he was a mortal at the time. If Adam almost lived a thousand years, why wouldn't mortals be able to live an entire thousand years and then some? IOW, some of the mortals still alive but are spared during the 2nd coming, they are still alive after the thousand years expires. And let's say not all of them end up being deceived by satan.

What happens to them, then? How do they put on immortality in order to live forever as well? Doesn't 1 Cor 15 indicate that when one puts on immortality, it is at the last trump, in the twinkling of an eye? It is things such as this, being some of the reasons why I have admitted numerous times in the past, in some regards Amil appears to make better sense than Premil, this maybe being one of those times.
Well at the close of the millennium death and hades (the abode of the dead souls) deliver up all the dead in them, rendering hades empty. We are not told that ALL of those souls are thrown into the LOF because NONE of their names are found in the Lamb's book of Life. The words are:

Rev 20"15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (KJV)
and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire. (YLT)

The words do not say, "everyone was cast into the LOF" or all the souls which had been delivered up by death and hades (two sides of the same coin) were cast into the LOF.

This brings me to another gripe of foreign non-European Christians living in countries like Japan, India etc. Many of them have unsaved family and do not believe that the New Testament teaches that once someone has died, it's the end of the person's chances - Jesus preached the gospel in hades when He died. Is the gospel known in hades? What about those who never heard of Jesus? Those who never heard the gospel? It's only in the last 100 years or so that international travel and digital tech has enabled the gospel to go out into every nook and cranny in the four corners of the world - but millions over the centuries have died without even hearing about Jesus. What about them?

The Bible does not tell us everything we demand to know. God tells us what we need to know and what He will allow us to know - and to assume that all who are delivered up by death and hades at the GWT will be thrown into the LOF, is just that - an assumption - because the text does not say "all".
 
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Zao is life

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Is your point that God and Satan had a discussion about how deceived humanity could be?
Don't put words in my mouth.

What I said does not imply the above at all. Humans are not gods. We do not understand all things, and we are influenced by a lot of things. Greek philosophy permeated the mindset of the Roman world. Even today it takes a while for an individual, let alone a group of people, to lose old thinking produced by philosophical influences that are deeply entrenched in the thought-patterns of those who come to Christ. Cultural thought-patterns and belief systems are extremely powerful.
 
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Timtofly

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While you and I might agree about some of these things, there are still other things that Premils need to provide answers for.

For example. Adam almost lived an entire thousand years in this age, and that he was a mortal at the time. If Adam almost lived a thousand years, why wouldn't mortals be able to live an entire thousand years and then some? IOW, some of the mortals still alive but are spared during the 2nd coming, they are still alive after the thousand years expires. And let's say not all of them end up being deceived by satan.

What happens to them, then? How do they put on immortality in order to live forever as well? Doesn't 1 Cor 15 indicate that when one puts on immortality, it is at the last trump, in the twinkling of an eye? It is things such as this, being some of the reasons why I have admitted numerous times in the past, in some regards Amil appears to make better sense than Premil, this maybe being one of those times.

The 1000 years cannot start because all are dead. It starts as a resurrection. But those who are brought back to life cannot die again. They will be glorified at the end. Their descendants will still be born in sin. But not Adam's sin. There is a difference. No one accepts this but the first 1000 years mirror this one. Adam was placed in the Garden that was created 1000 years after day 6. The Garden was the original Jerusalem. The one not of this earth but can move. Adam only lasted 30 years. First Adam ended his ministry after 30 years. Second Adam started His ministry at 30 years.

But Adam had already lived 1000 years of perfection, and then died in sin, about an equal amount of time later. So goes those who are born in this next 1000 years. Death will only come on those as a curse. Once again things will start out well, but progressive get worse, as humans themselves test the boundaries of God’s Law. The problem with amil is the evolutionary thought that things will evolve into a more perfect condition. Evolution was another false teaching of Satan. This world does not return to perfection. It returns to glorious, with the propensity to decay. That is why the end has to come. Then God will create a new reality. All humanity can only comprehend, it seems the 6000 years of Adam's punishment. God did create a perfect creation. God allowed it to last 1000 years. God will allow Himself a last 1000 years. Most just think God nonsense. At least that is all the feed back, I get. God is Sovereign, they just don't like a Sovereign God outside of their comfort zone, I guess.
 
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Timtofly

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Don't put words in my mouth.

What I said does not imply the above at all. Humans are not gods. We do not understand all things, and we are influenced by a lot of things. Greek philosophy permeated the mindset of the Roman world. Even today it takes a while for an individual, let alone a group of people, to lose old thinking produced by philosophical influences that are deeply entrenched in the thought-patterns of those who come to Christ.
I was not giving you any credit for the thought. I was seeing what you thought.
 
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Zao is life

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I was not giving you any credit for the thought. I was seeing what you thought.
You have no right to do that to a brother. It's deceitful. Either that or a ridiculously dumb question. One of the two.
 
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DavidPT

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The 1000 years cannot start because all are dead. It starts as a resurrection. But those who are brought back to life cannot die again. They will be glorified at the end. Their descendants will still be born in sin. But not Adam's sin. There is a difference. No one accepts this but the first 1000 years mirror this one. Adam was placed in the Garden that was created 1000 years after day 6. The Garden was the original Jerusalem. The one not of this earth but can move. Adam only lasted 30 years. First Adam ended his ministry after 30 years. Second Adam started His ministry at 30 years.

But Adam had already lived 1000 years of perfection, and then died in sin, about an equal amount of time later. So goes those who are born in this next 1000 years. Death will only come on those as a curse. Once again things will start out well, but progressive get worse, as humans themselves test the boundaries of God’s Law. The problem with amil is the evolutionary thought that things will evolve into a more perfect condition. Evolution was another false teaching of Satan. This world does not return to perfection. It returns to glorious, with the propensity to decay. That is why the end has to come. Then God will create a new reality. All humanity can only comprehend, it seems the 6000 years of Adam's punishment. God did create a perfect creation. God allowed it to last 1000 years. God will allow Himself a last 1000 years. Most just think God nonsense. At least that is all the feed back, I get. God is Sovereign, they just don't like a Sovereign God outside of their comfort zone, I guess.


This is quite the insight(not meaning that sarcastically, though). Assuming this insight is correct, where on earth did you come by this insight to begin with? Unless you can prove and show these things with Scriptures, how can anyone possibly agree that you might be correct about these things?
 
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Timtofly

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You have no right to do that to a brother. It's deceitful. Either that or a ridiculously dumb question. One of the two.
Asking people what they think is deceitful? I did not ask, "are you saying?" It was, "is your point?" It was not an assumption. It was a question. I guess, "just calling posters stupid and wrong and then telling them what they think is right," seems the only form of communication these days.
 
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This is quite the insight(not meaning that sarcastically, though). Assuming this insight is correct, where on earth did you come by this insight to begin with? Unless you can prove and show these things with Scriptures, how can anyone possibly agree that you might be correct about these things?
Study the "Day of the Lord", would be a start. Only the Holy Spirit can guide any one. Revelation 13 and Genesis 2 say a lot more than most have studied or commentated on. Also how the 7th trumpet is used. When posters quote the verses surrounding these events, they see in them what they need. It could be argued, I do the same thing. But what is my motive? I am trying to get people to think differently, not think like me.
 
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@grafted branch



Could you each please finish the description of these beasts, who you think they are in this format. Just copy and paste - and finish the description.

1. The first beast in Revelation 13:1 represents....

2. The second beast in Revelation 13:11 represents ....

3. The scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17:3 represents.....

4. The beast in Revelation 17:8a represents......

5. The beast in Revelation 17:8b represents.....

6. The beast in Revelation 17:11 represents....

7. The beast in Revelation 19:20 represents....


To keep things simple for now rather than complicate things, the latter initially being what I did when I began formulating my thoughts in NotePad first, I see 1 and 3-7, all referring to the same beast and that I see this meaning the AC. As to the other beast, that beast could simply represent ones such as in Matthew 24:24, thus not meaning as in just one person. I'm not claiming this is 100% so, but that I can see it maybe being possible that, by the false prophet, maybe something such as Matthew 24:24 is being meant.
 
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To keep things simple for now rather than complicate things, the latter initially being what I did when I began formulating my thoughts in NotePad first, I see 1 and 3-7, all referring to the same beast and that I see this meaning the AC. As to the other beast, that beast could simply represent ones such as in Matthew 24:24, thus not meaning as in just one person. I'm not claiming this is 100% so, but that I can see it maybe being possible that, by the false prophet, maybe something such as Matthew 24:24 is being meant.
3. The scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17:3 represents.....


Why don't you see beast 3 as Satan ?
 
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DavidPT

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3. The scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17:3 represents.....


Why don't you see beast 3 as Satan ?

I realize you reason some of these things a bit differently than I might, so the following is based on how I reason these things, and not how you might.

For one, I'm Premil not Amil. That being one major reason as to why I don't see the scarlet coloured beast in Revelation 17:3 meaning satan.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

This same beast here is meaning the same beast per the following.

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition(Revelation 17:8)

Let's assume satan is meant by the scarlet coloured beast. That would mean this in Revelation 17:8 is actually meaning this---The beast that thou sawest was, and is not, is satan; and satan shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold satan, the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

But let's not stop there, this same beast is mentioned yet again.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


IOW, in order to square with what one is taking Revelation 17:8 to be meaning, satan has to be meant in the following as well.

And satan, the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast satan. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast satan.

Maybe that might work with Amil, though I don't know if it even does, but how can it work with Premil should not even be in question. No way can it work with Premil, because Premil has satan coming out of the pit after the 2nd coming, and that Revelation 17 has whoever is coming out of the pit, coming out prior to the 2nd coming.
 
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Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
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I realize you reason some of these things a bit differently than I might, so the following is based on how I reason these things, and not how you might.

For one, I'm Premil not Amil. That being one major reason as to why I don't see the scarlet coloured beast in Revelation 17:3 meaning satan.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

This same beast here is meaning the same beast per the following.

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition(Revelation 17:8)

Let's assume satan is meant by the scarlet coloured beast. That would mean this in Revelation 17:8 is actually meaning this---The beast that thou sawest was, and is not, is satan; and satan shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold satan, the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

But let's not stop there, this same beast is mentioned yet again.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


IOW, in order to square with what one is taking Revelation 17:8 to be meaning, satan has to be meant in the following as well.

And satan, the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast satan. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast satan.

Maybe that might work with Amil, though I don't know if it even does, but how can it work with Premil should not even be in question. No way can it work with Premil, because Premil has satan coming out of the pit after the 2nd coming, and that Revelation 17 has whoever is coming out of the pit, coming out prior to the 2nd coming.
I understand the conflict in rationale of Satan being the beast in the bottomless pit.

To understand why there is not a conflict - and actually two different persons as the beast (and not Satan) in Revelation 17:8a, Revelation 17:8b, Revelation 17:11....

Is in this overlooked wording....

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and [the mystery -implied] of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

So lets substitute Satan as that beast. There is a mystery of Satan that the reader is faced with solving. How is Satan connected with the beast in the bottomless pit (since it is obviously not Satan himself), and how is Satan connected with beast which causes the world to wonder ?

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

a. the original serpent beast in the garden.
b. the end times person

Satan is connected to both.

___________________________________________________________________________

David, back to your position. You must be thinking the Antichrist will be a reincarnation of some ancient person? For a second go-around at life ?
 
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