What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No it is not.
The thief repented and believed in the Messiah.

According to the scripture the OP posted, it does.

Baptism saves, unlike
which is found nowhere in scripture

Acts 16:31
Romans 10:9

 

[concretecamper]

Acts 16:31
Romans 10:9

my bible doesn't say "only". BTW, neither did the bible you quoted from.

 

[-57]

some men have come to this conclusion, but it is a novel idea which is relatively new and not based in scripture.

Matt 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Novel idea????

 

[-57]

I agree.
But Rom 6's baptism is with water.
Verse 5 is the best indicator of this..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
What other baptism can be likened to "planting" besides the one where we are "immersed" into Christ's death and burial?

Verse 6 may or not be a reference to water...if it is a reference to water it isn't a requirement for salvation.

As I said, if baptism in water was a reference it would have been talked about in the Bible. Much like communion is talked about.

If baptisms required for salvation there would be no sprinkle vs. immersion argument...the Bible would explain it.

If baptism was a requirement John 3:16 would mention baptism...but it doesn't.

 

[concretecamper]

Matt 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Novel idea????

the Holy Spirit is often associated with Fire.

Yes, people who claim to be a Christian have novel ideas about Baptism.

 

[Dan1988]

John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

We're all born of the flesh, "the flesh" is referred to as carnal or natural in the Bible and these are the opposite of spiritual.

The natural man has no desire for the things of God. He will never come to a place of repentance and faith, unless God gives it to him.

To be born again is foolishness and it's an insult to intelligent people. We can see that the smartest people throughout were all unbelievers. Nicodemus was a very smart man, since you don't become a ruler of the Jews unless you're very intelligent.

So we see that nothing has changed over the past 2000 years, smart people still think that the things of God are foolishness.

In John 3:18 Jesus describes unbelievers as being condemned already, so unbelievers don't have to wait until this life is over to receive their judgement and believers already have salvation.

In Matthew 19:25-26 the disciples asked, who can be saved and Jesus told them that it's impossible with men, but all things are possible with God.

In Romans 3:11 God's Word tells us that none seek after God, so if we are to believe God's Word then we have to say that God must seek us out because we will never come to a point in our life where we decide to seek out God.

All this to say that salvation is of the Lord, He is the One who starts the work of salvation and He is the One who finishes that work. Most christians don't believe this Bible doctrine, they believe that there's something inherently good in them so they seek to obey the gospel and earn their salvation.

 

[lsume]

John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Until one goes through the rebirth it is impossible to Truly understand until Christ teaches you.

 

[bling]

John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

One of Jesus’ jobs is to help others reach the next level in their spiritual growth, but they first got to do what they personally already know to do. If they are not going to do what they already know to do there is no reason to try and move forward. Christ is hard on people not doing what they know they should do (“why come to me if you already know what to do”) and Christ is not “Mr. Answer Man”, but forces you to think and answer your own questions.

We need to try and put ourselves in Nicodemus’ shoes at that time and place, so what does Nicodemus know he should do (without any need for help from Christ) that he is not doing for his spiritual growth?

It is fine and nice Nicodemus wants to learn more about Christ, but again he is not dealing with the knowledge he already has, so what will he do with knowledge of Christ?

Set Christ aside for a moment, who and what teaching is out there, that Nicodemus has to deal with? John the Baptist had to be a huge topic among all the Pharisees and in the Sanhedrin. Scholars like Nicodemus would have easily concluded John was a prophet of God, with a totally consistent with scripture message. All the common Jewish people accepted John’s message and were baptized, so it would be much easier for Bible Scholars to understand the truth. They did not debate what he was saying with him or his disciples, so it appears there was nothing to debate.

The problem for Nicodemus is the fact, if Nicodemus submits to John’s baptism he would have been kicked out of the Sanhedrin, so what did Nicodemus decide to do?

One issue with the amniotic fluid be considered “water” in the first century does not hold well, since it was dirty (really being the baby’s pee). The “water” spoken of also seems to something you do or should do and not something we all experience. (more can be said)

The second makes Christian immersion baptism a requirement for entering the kingdom. Your hell bound without this baptism. Problems with this are: people even in the OT who was not baptized are part of the Kingdom today. Christian baptism has not yet been instituted. There are all the other scriptures describing “born again”, becoming a child of God, born seems to believe in Christ, not needing water, and others.

The third idea comes from the book (which I do not fully agree with). Water is heavily discussed by John throughout John and the next individual encounter by Jesus is the woman at the will with Jesus saying lots about living water. Water can refer to the Holy Spirit (Paul Barnes can speak on this). Jesus is confusing Nicodemus but as the book says: “When Jesus talks people misunderstand.”

The book’s conclusion is:

“Jesus replies to Nicodemus by saying that his way of religious thinking won’t work in the world Jesus comes to reveal.”

My idea is this and I will emphasis the differences with the book’s conclusions: context, context, context, context and context

1. Why did Nicodemus describe Jesus as “Rabbi”?

2. The whole coming at night with Jesus saying: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. So what evil is Nicodemus involved in doing at this time?

3. Jesus says: 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony so who is the “we” making testimony?

4. The book likes to skip to the next individual encounter of Jesus but sandwiched in-between is the narrative on John the Baptist, so why John?

5. John says something very similar to Jesus: 32 “He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony” and goes on to say: 36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.” (Is that not John’s testimony?)

I always say: “When I approach someone of different believes I start with where we agree and move from there”. Jesus would know the full extent of where Nicodemus was in agreement with the truth and hit him at the highest point, but would it be truth Nicodemus knew, but would not speak?

Nicodemus at this point would not be sure Jesus was the Messiah, but what did he know?

As we see from Jesus response to Nicodemus, Jesus is responding to what is on the heart of Nicodemus (this is like all of Jesus’ responses to all people who come to him) and from “I tell you” it is very individual. This is particularly for Nicodemus. Nicodemus cannot just shrug it off because Jesus presses him with 10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?”

Does that mean Nicodemus did understand, but was not admitting it?

If we could determine how far along Nicodemus was in his Spiritual growth, we could than know what Christ was addressing and pressing Nicodemus with. So where is Nicodemus from the context? What did he know (where they agree) and yet he was not teaching (thus doing evil)? What question did Nicodemus not want to address in the light publicly?

 

[tgg]

You shall destroy your old self and become a slave of God. You shall no longer say: "I do what I want", but: "I do what God wants me to do". You shall no longer use your own mind but God's mind, because when man uses his own mind he will fall. And when you do that you are newborn, you will get knowledge, that means you will know what is good and what is bad.

It means climbing into your mother's womb and wriggling yourself out again. ;-)

Joking aside, I think it means turning yourself around to obey all of God's commandments and learn, teach and apply the teachings of Jesus Christ to all who reach out to you.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

Premier NT Greek Scholar DA Carson addressees the text of John 3:1-21

In Him,

Bill

 

[ViaCrucis]

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Which baptism is this?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Christian Baptism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Phil W]

Matt 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Novel idea????

That is three of the available baptisms.
One done by men for men, one done by God for the repentant, and the last one done by God to destroy the earth.

 

[Neogaia777]

John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Something or some things in you must die or be destroyed, or die, etc, completely, etc, and you must be re-created or re-made, or be born again, free of or from those things forever afterwards, etc...

A completely new man or woman or creation, etc... One that is not like the world, etc...

Ego must die, etc...

And everything associated with ego must die, etc...

Sometimes takes a lot, A LOT, to kill that off, etc...

Many are unable to do it, and many do not allow God to do it in them, for them, etc... But will call themselves "Christians", etc, or even "born again Christians", etc...

Watch out for these, etc...

God Bless!

 

[James Honigman]

John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Hi rhern. In the Greek manuscripts "born again" actually means "begotten from above". We were all with our Father before being born of woman, we are just not allowed to remember it. After descending we go through our life and then ascend back to our Father. Hope that helps.

 

[-57]

Hi rhern. In the Greek manuscripts "born again" actually means "begotten from above". We were all with our Father before being born of woman, we are just not allowed to remember it. After descending we go through our life and then ascend back to our Father. Hope that helps.

do you have some references for this?

 

[1213]

What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

I have understood it means this change of mind.

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:10-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. Yahweh your God will put all these curses on your enemies, and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day. Yahweh your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for Yahweh will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fathers;
Deuteronomy 30:6-9

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

my bible doesn't say "only". BTW, neither did the bible you quoted from.

It didn't say the sun is blue either. They were statements from scripture...

 

[lsume]

You shall destroy your old self and become a slave of God. You shall no longer say: "I do what I want", but: "I do what God wants me to do". You shall no longer use your own mind but God's mind, because when man uses his own mind he will fall. And when you do that you are newborn, you will get knowledge, that means you will know what is good and what is bad.

The Captivity Captive is going to be rough on many I think. It must be experienced. You seem to have the right understanding.

 

[concretecamper]

It didn't say the sun is blue either. They were statements from scripture...

I would suggest people not ADD words to scripture.

 

[setst777]

John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Greetings.

Lord Jesus plainly states what he means by "born again" when He sums it all up in John 3:14-18.

John 3:14-18 (WEB)
14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

We cannot tell where the Spirit goes and who the Spirit will give life to, but we do know the Spirit indwells true believers in Jesus to give them life as they drink of the Spirit by faith.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

John 4:13-14 (WEB)
13 Jesus answered her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

Blessings,
Steven